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How to write without offending anyone

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PowerWriter

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Amadan

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Again, suggesting that something shouldn't be written is effectively saying it shouldn't exist. People who burn books tend to do so because they feel those books shouldn't exist.

It's not what I'd call an enormous leap.

It is a leap that would daunt Superman.

If I say I wish something hadn't been published (like, say the complete works of Ann Coulter), that is not even remotely close to saying I think Ann Coulter should be censored and all her books burned.

Now, it's possible that Amadan was saying something outside of what I interpreted. In which case, cool. But his message gave me the impression--at this late hour--that some things *shouldn't* be written.


Yes, I do think some things "shouldn't" be written. I also think some things "shouldn't" be worn (like, for example, Sailor Moon outfits by fat bearded middle-aged men). That doesn't mean I want to ban it.


People warfleblarging about "political correctness" always think criticism equals censorship. :rolleyes:
 

gothicangel

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However, I appear to be in the minority thinking that, so assuming none of that matters, try considering that the first thing you think of is likely to be the least interesting. I'm much more intrigued by a story where the US bombs itself than one where the US is bombed by North Korea, because it already has me asking what's changed, without knowing anything else about the story.

I agree with Polenth. If I picked up a book with this blurb, I would think *yawn* yet another Pearl Harbour or Independence Day type plot. Today, America's greatest threat comes from the enemy within, and that much more interesting and fresh to me as a reader.
 

Buffysquirrel

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Oh yes, 'the enemy within'. Rediscovered during every economic crisis ever.
 

gothicangel

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Think of all the Cold War novels/movies that vilified the Soviets, or the Chinese? What about all the books on WWII, fiction and non-fiction that point out that there were some really bad Germans?

The keyword is some. There's not many writers left writing Nazi/Soviet=evil, and the fiction surrounding these eras now is a bit more sophisticated than Indiana Jones. I currently have Ben Elton's Two Brothers which I am looking forward to reading. In todays world, it's the US that is viewed as the aggressor, than the defender of freedom and liberty.

Of course, there's still a lot of bad guy Brits out there. :D
 

gothicangel

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Oh yes, 'the enemy within'. Rediscovered during every economic crisis ever.

I have to disagree, there where plenty of films and books on this subject before the economic crisis, symptomatic of 9/11 and the July bombings in London in the early 00's.

The situation is far more complex than US vs Taliban, especially when bombs are detonated in London by British citizens.
 

JoBird

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It is a leap that would daunt Superman.

If I say I wish something hadn't been published (like, say the complete works of Ann Coulter), that is not even remotely close to saying I think Ann Coulter should be censored and all her books burned.




Yes, I do think some things "shouldn't" be written. I also think some things "shouldn't" be worn (like, for example, Sailor Moon outfits by fat bearded middle-aged men). That doesn't mean I want to ban it.


People warfleblarging about "political correctness" always think criticism equals censorship. :rolleyes:

I disagree. Your position seems inconsistent in my opinion. But to each their own.
 

Dorky

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On the original question:
The chances are high that someone, somewhere, is going to be offended by whatever you write. Don't sweat it. If you spent your whole writing career trying not to offend anyone, you'd get very little writing done! :)

Of course, there's still a lot of bad guy Brits out there. :D

And they're so sexy! :D
 

Buffysquirrel

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I have to disagree, there where plenty of films and books on this subject before the economic crisis, symptomatic of 9/11 and the July bombings in London in the early 00's.

The situation is far more complex than US vs Taliban, especially when bombs are detonated in London by British citizens.

You're right. I should have left out 'economic' and just gone with 'crisis'.
 

Amadan

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I disagree. Your position seems inconsistent in my opinion. But to each their own.


So if I say "You shouldn't say that," it means I want you fined or imprisoned for saying it?
 

ebbrown

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Sometimes you just can't win for trying.
Write the book you want to write, and let it ride. If someone wants to be offended, they will find a reason to, and you certainly can't write while worrying how it will be received. When you are finished, have beta-readers check it out.
 

Karen Landis

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Seriously?

I can't believe you're asking this question. Can someone tell me how to block this poster? Christ almighty.

See, Kellie? Just by asking the question you've offended someone. (Although I think JoBird was just spoofing. Right, JoBird?
 

The Seanchai

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It's nearly impossible to write something without offending somebody. For example, if you write lesbian fiction, you offend straight people. But if you write straight fiction, then LGBTQ folk are sidelined and feel left out. Either way, somebody is offended (or hurt or whatever).

Also, I'd advise not beating around as issue. That makes for vague and confusing writing. Better to just say it.

As others have said, quit overthinking it and just get back to writing.
 

Snowstorm

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North Korea might just as easily be pleased at someone taking their stick-waving seriously.

Sorry, I can't get past this without fighting to keep the coffee in my mouth. :ROFL:

Okay, I have to agree with everyone up-thread: write the story you want to write. You have to figure out how to handle any fallout (if any).
 

Roxxsmom

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People warfleblarging about "political correctness" always think criticism equals censorship. :rolleyes:

I think this is an important point. Free speech does not guarantee one will not be criticized/disagreed with (or be called a jerk) for the beliefs one expresses or for expressing them poorly. Nor should it.

I get really, really tired of people who equate criticism with censorship (i.e. "I was only expressing my religious/political/personal beliefs when I said I thought your subset of humanity is inferior so you shouldn't use your right to free speech to disagree with me or accuse me of bigotry").

Write your story. I'd suggest your research the facts that are essential to your world building so your story will appear plausible. I suggest you treat people in the story as individuals and not simply as extensions of their governments. But in the end, it is yours to write and other peoples' to judge and comment on.

It's nearly impossible to write something without offending somebody. For example, if you write lesbian fiction, you offend straight people. But if you write straight fiction, then LGBTQ folk are sidelined and feel left out. Either way, somebody is offended (or hurt or whatever).

I am straight and I am not in the least offended by lesbian fiction (or gay fiction) :) I've read and enjoyed some, actually, and I've enjoyed many stories written for a more general audience that have gay and lesbian characters and other characters who are not white females at or near my current age.

Not everyone is offended by differences.

And I know that wasn't the main point of what you were trying to say, and I agree totally with the overall thrust of it. But I did want to point out that many readers are not as prickly or as wedged into specific demographics as we might think.
 
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JoBird

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I get really, really tired of people who equate criticism with censorship (i.e. "I was only expressing my religious/political/personal beliefs when I said I thought your subset of humanity is inferior so you shouldn't use your right to free speech to disagree with me or accuse me of bigotry").

I'm all for criticism. I'm not aware of anyone making the argument that criticism equals censorship.

And by criticism, I mean, "I didn't like it because of blah." I don't mean, "Because I didn't like it you shouldn't have written it."

What I'm tired of is people getting up on armchairs and pontificating about how something shouldn't be written. If someone wants to criticize something, fine, criticize it. Just don't mouth-breath (or warfleblarg if that word works better) about how it shouldn't have existed in the first place.

I seriously can't stand other people trying to dictate what should or should not be written, based on content. I'm overjoyed when someone offers a fair criticism, saying, "I didn't enjoy that." But I'm endlessly annoyed when someone says, "A petition to keep that from being written would be nice."
 

jaksen

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When I was a little girl I was given a set of books 'for girls.' Lovely tales and stories of sweet children who really didn't do all that much. I never read but the first one or two. I HATED THEM. And I was all of nine or ten.

My mother didn't get it. She told me they were lovely books in which no one ever argued or got upset.

I will not name the series; it was not a 'mystery series.' I recently found some of them moldering in my mother's cellar. They are in a landfill now somewhere.

Do not write bland. Do not write dull. There aren't many mothers like mine - and she is wonderful in many ways. But her taste in books, meh and blah.

Write interesting and worry not about offending people.
 

Roxxsmom

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I've never run across a petition aimed at stopping an author from writing something. And of course, such petitions would only even remotely work for very famous and established writers who are actually asked to disclose their plans for upcoming projects in advance. As a first time newbie author, no one (aside from a handful of people on writing forums and my nearest and dearest) have any idea what I'm working on, let alone whether it might offend someone.

But said famous author or script writer probably knows their demographic niche pretty well and would be unlikely to be dissuaded from a potentially profitable endeavor by a petition from people with opposing sociopolitical views.

It's not quite the same thing, either, to say one wishes that media that supports views they find objectionable (racism, sexism, homophobia, or on the other side of the sociopolitical spectrum, irreligiosity and the non-traditional family, say) would wither and die for lack of adherents and interest.

I have run across proposed media boycotts (on both sides of the political spectrum) of movies and books some people feel are offensive or harmful to some group or another. Boycotts aren't the same thing as censorship, because they're asking (not telling, unless coercion is used) people of a given mind set to use the free market and to exercise their right not to consume something.

They don't seem to work very often for books and movies, at least, because when someone makes a movie (Like the Last Temptation of Christ, for instance) that one group (that was probably not the movie's target demographic in the first place) boycotts, another group may well decide to see an otherwise "boring" movie to find out what all the fuss is about. It's an example of the old adage about the only bad publicity being no publicity.
 
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Amadan

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I'm all for criticism. I'm not aware of anyone making the argument that criticism equals censorship.

And by criticism, I mean, "I didn't like it because of blah." I don't mean, "Because I didn't like it you shouldn't have written it."


Robert A. Heinlein and Larry Niven should not have written post-apocalyptic sci-fi novels in which all the black people turn into cannibals.

Those books were offensively purblind and racist.

But I read them. I had to squint and grit my teeth at the racist (and sexist) parts, but I'm not trying to burn their books or keep them (well, Niven is still alive) from writing any more books.

What they should have done was try harder not to be racist tools. Maybe, you know, talk to a few actual black people.

Criticizing them and their books and wishing they hadn't written what they did is. Not. Censorship.
 

JoBird

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Roxxsmom, an example of a petition to stop something from being distributed: OSC's issue of Superman. Quite a few people signed that petition, and the media attention caused the illustrating artist to walk away from the project.

The petition happened because people disagreed with Card's political position. It's unlikely that Card's politics had anything whatsoever to do with the story he wrote.

should not have written

Regarding Farnham's Freehold, I didn't read it through the same lens, so I didn't end up feeling offended. But it's a good topic of debate, and I dig having that conversation. A lot of people find Heinlein's work to be sexist, and, try as I might, I always have trouble understanding. I've always felt that Heinlein represented women as strong individuals. Take, for example, Number of the Beast, where Hilda becomes captain over the two male leads.

Anyway, to the main point: "should not" to me means should not. It doesn't mean that you found it in bad taste, wouldn't have written it yourself, and don't enjoy reading it. It means that the writing "should not" exist. As opposed to you "preferring" that the author had gone in a different direction.

Largely, it seems that our disagreement is one of semantics. It's hard for me to understand the consistency of your argument. It "should not" have been written, but . . . you don't think it "should not" have been written in terms of banning it. See the huh? part of your position?
 

Roxxsmom

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I think this is a good point too. And really, it's not even always about wishing these authors hadn't written the stories themselves--just wishing they'd handled certain aspects of them differently. For all I know they wish (wished) they had in hindsight.

Having a reader (or three or four or five) point out that some aspect of your plot or characterization may be offensive to some readers is not censorship either. You can change it or not.

For instance, one of my readers really freaked out when an offhand comment one character made to another gave him the impression said character was gay (he wasn't). After considering, I changed the offhand comment, because I didn't want to mislead readers re that character's possible orientation. But I did not change anything regarding a character who appears a bit later in the book who is gay. If he offends said reader simply by being in the book, tough tootsies.

Roxxsmom, an example of a petition to stop something from being distributed: OSC's issue of Superman. Quite a few people signed that petition, and the media attention caused the illustrating artist to walk away from the project.

The petition happened because people disagreed with Card's political position. It's unlikely that Card's politics had anything whatsoever to do with the story he wrote.

I don't follow comics, so I can't comment on the particulars here. But it doesn't sound like anyone stepped in and actually forced the cartoonist to quit the project. He chose to do so after learning about the petition. Maybe he was scared/intimidated, but isn't it also possible that he just decided his time was better spent on something else, or maybe even he thought about it and decided these folks had a point? How is that really any different from some of your beta readers saying, "I think your character is a Mary Sue," or "I think your treatment of the temple sisters in your story is sexist," and your mulling it over and deciding they have a point and so changing that aspect of your story (or possibly even trunking said story and starting a new one if you can't think of a way around the problem).

I'm not going to stop writing a project if I think a beta reader's comments simply reflect his own tastes/beliefs and they are not ones I share.
 
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WeaselFire

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The last thing I want to do as a writer is offend anyone.
Why?

Basically, it's pointless. People will be offended if you get published and they don't. If you complete a work and they don't. If you wear purple. If you worship anything. If you have children. If you don't have children. If you're short. If you're skinny. If you're white. If you're non-white. If you ever had a motorized two-wheel contraption. If you like Miami. If you like pretzels. If you hate pretzels. If you...

Shut up and write!

Sorry if I offended you. :)

Jeff
 
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