Luna Brillante Publishing

The Pub will pay the author royalties based on net sales as reported by the pub's distributors as follows: All copies sold at the full retail price as imprinted on the cover: 10% for the first $100,000 and 20% thereafter. For all other copies sold at special rates, names a bunch, a percentage of the per-copy amount recieved by the pub equal to 60% of the percentage of the per-copy amount....etc etc etc

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I can't tell what they mean by that. For that matter, how would they know what the eventual bookstore sold the book for?

Like I said, though, for me that would be a deal-breaker. Pay royalties on cover price, or I'll find a different publisher.

(How many of their books have earned $100,000 net?)

erase some of your messages, your box is full

MightyMax5 said:

erase some of your messages, your box is full

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Who are you talking to?

Silverhand, tried to send you a pm but your box was still full.
I think the advice given above is solid, although we often pay royalties on net so James and I differ on that, although the rate seems very low to me.
From my perspective, the most important thing to find out is how your publisher distributes its books. If they have a national distributor with sales reps working to sell your book to chains, indies, etc. all over hte country, you have a much better shot of making some money. If they are attempting to sell your book only through their own internal channels of distribution (i.e. web site, Amazon, and having hte book listed on INgram and BT), then you have a much harder job ahead of you.

Silverhand, I tried to reply to your PM but your box is full. Will try again later.

The short version: I don't believe this is a professional publisher. Which is a different thing from "bad" or "scam" but produces the same end result: few sales, zero exposure. If you're looking to establish your writing career, I'm afraid that a publisher like this won't get you any closer to that goal.

- Victoria

Silverhand said:

The reason I hesitate to mention their name is due to the fact that I have not signed yet, and if they see me questioning...they may withdraw. I deal with negotiations for my company...and that is common for my practice. So, this was just a good way for me to start asking questions with little risk.

I dont know if that's the way it is...but just covering all my bases. The editor does post here...which kind of has me freaked out...especially if someone starts to slander (bad) / or tells me some bad truths (good for me). Once again in my line of work stuff like that is not so good.

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Silverhand, if they withdraw a contract offer based on the fact that you're asking questions, they are probably someone you don't want to be with anyway. Research is something every author should do - starting with asking the publisher questions. I'd also recommend talking to some of their authors - you'll get the straight story from them.

2.) 10% Royalties on all net sales.

NOT.

Your royalty should be based on the book's cover price, not net.

Net is the profit your book makes, and the bean counters can get very creative about preventing something from making a profit. The movie Forest Gump is infamous for not having turned a profit. (This is to do with movie accounting, but you can see how deep the kimchee can get:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting)

Don't sign with this bunch unless they change that clause wording from "Net" to "Cover Price." And even then! If your book is good enough it will get the attention it deserves--hopefully from a publisher that pays a proper advance!

I know how tempting it is to go forth and just do it, but clearly the warning bells are ringing in the back of your head. Listen to them as they're going to keep you clear of even worse heartache.

Been there, almost done that, escaped by a nat's whisker.

CaoPaux said:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that acceptance by a publisher is the time to drop a note to your dream agent saying "I've been accepted by XYZ! Wanna be my agent?"

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Not if there's no advance. Even for an established small publisher with distribution, it's not very likely a successful agent would be interested in a no-advance offer.

- Victoria

CaoPaux said:

(WITH SNIPS) Since evidence suggests a non-advance-paying, not-author-friendly publisher, would it be advisable in such case to consult a lawyer (who is familiar with publishing contracts)? Too expensive to hire for actual negotiations, but they could at least explain/vet the clauses and give advice how to proceed.

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Possibly a lawyer familiar with publishing contracts. However, if one is a member of the National Writers Union, you can submit any contract to their contract review board. (http://nwu.org) Not sure what the entry-level dues are now, but they've got to be cheaper than a lawyer visit.

Mo

CaoPaux said:

They are still POD, with all the restrictions and complications that imposes on selling your book to anyone not family or friend. If you sign with them, please take The Pledge to never buy your books to resell: that is vanity publishing.

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CaoPaux, as I mentioned to Eric, I have no problem with him discussing LBP. In fact, I welcome it. Preditors and Editors just added us to their listing with the comment "Very impressed with this publishing house" which we are very proud of.

We have nothing to hide. Yes, we are using Lightning Source and we are using the POD printing method but allow me to clarify something - unlike most small publishers or PODs, we will give the industry standard 40-45% discount to wholesalers, book clubs and the like and we WILL accept returns. Most PODs and even small presses don't do that and THAT is what prevents them from getting in the stores. Now, will this guarantee Eric's book will be in the front of Barnes and Nobles? No, of course not. Its a dog-eat-dog world out there and B&N would rather have 5 billion copies of the Da Vinci Code on their shelves then small press or POD publishers. Does that mean we won't even try? Of course not, we will do everything in our power to get our books in the chain stores. I believe we stand much better odds with the small time bookstores but that goes for ANY small publisher.

A lot has been made about our contract - the majority of the contract was based on examples provided by SFWA - this includes the provision for NET SALES. We would be happy to provide a sample contract to Absolute Write, Writers Beware and whomever else would like to see it.

We can't give advances simply because our budget precludes us from doing so. We're not the only small publisher who does not offer advances.

We also do not accept just anything. We've rejected hundreds of submissions...Eric's piece wowed us and we definitely want to take it on. We hope he will give us the opportunity to prove to him that LBP will treat is work honestly, with respect, professionalism and dedication. That's why we will only produce 4-5 books a year because we want to be able to focus our funds and our attention to our authors.

One last thing, Eric misunderstood the contract on Galleys - he will not have to pay for galleys. He does not have to pay for ANYTHING other than his own personal copies of the book after the allotment of 5. We will provide galleys and review copies to ANY agency who asks for it and we will be providing copies to the industry standards (i.e. PW, Kirkus, Library, etc.).

I try to visit AW regularly and I will be more than happy to answer any questions any one may have regarding LBP. I am also available via email at jcdelatorreATdelatorrewriting.com or editorATlunabrillantepublishing.com (of course, where there's AT replace with @).

Thanks and keep up the great work, especially you CaoPaux, I've read many a post from you when a new publisher comes up and how you, for lack of a better phrase, tear them down to expose their darkest little secrets. I admired how you watched over your fellow writers. I was half expecting to see you when I posted our announcement in the Paying Markets forum and was a little dissapointed when you didn't inquire about us.

XThe NavigatorX said:

Luna Brillante Publishing appears to be brand new, and they publish through Lulu, which is something you could do yourself. Plus they have some outrageous things in their contract, like charging you $250 if you want out, or $149 if you want global distribution... so they're a vanity press.

Which makes me wonder about your agent. Who is it?

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Navigator, you are working off old information in regards to LBP. In the early days of the company, we were trying to figure out exactly what we wanted to be. We decided we wanted to be a traditional publisher, not a vanity press, thus we have revamped everything about our company. We do not charge our authors ANYTHING. We have broken off any association with Lulu and we go directly through LSI now. We will continue to do POD, however, unlike most PODs and Small Press, we offer bookstores and clubs the industry standard 40%-45% discount and we WILL accept returns. This puts us on an even playing field with the Big Boys. Our new corporate website is on the way but we have some information up on the old site at http://www.lunabrillantepublishing.com that will hopefully give you a clearer picture of what we are about.

Also, anyone who would like more information about the company can feel free to email me directly at jcdelatorreATdelatorrewriting.com or editorATlunabrillantepublishing.com (of course, where AT is replace with @)

jcdelatorre said:

Navigator, you are working off old information in regards to LBP. In the early days of the company, we were trying to figure out exactly what we wanted to be. We decided we wanted to be a traditional publisher, not a vanity press, thus we have revamped everything about our company. We do not charge our authors ANYTHING. We have broken off any association with Lulu and we go directly through LSI now. We will continue to do POD, however, unlike most PODs and Small Press, we offer bookstores and clubs the industry standard 55% discount and we WILL accept returns. This puts us on an even playing field with the Big Boys. Our new corporate website is on the way but we have some information up on the old site at http://www.lunabrillantepublishing.com that will hopefully give you a clearer picture of what we are about.

Also, anyone who would like more information about the company can feel free to email me directly at jcdelatorreATdelatorrewriting.com or editorATlunabrillantepublishing.com (of course, where AT is replace with @)

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I dropped of a submission Query to Luna Brilliante today. P&E speaks highly of the company.

Regards,
Scott

jcdelatorre said:

We will continue to do POD, however, unlike most PODs and Small Press, we offer bookstores and clubs the industry standard 55% discount and we WILL accept returns. This puts us on an even playing field with the Big Boys.

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Not to be contentious, but good, standard discounts and returns--though very good things to have--do not, of themselves, put you in Big Boy league. There's still the question of distribution, which is where many small presses get stuck.

Understand that I'm not putting down small presses. I have a real fondness for them. Authors need to understand the issues involved, though, and how small presses are different.

jcdelatorre said:

Yes, we are using Lightning Source and we are using the POD printing method but allow me to clarify something - unlike most small publishers or PODs, we will give the industry standard 55% discount to wholesalers, book clubs and the like and we WILL accept returns. Most PODs and even small presses don't do that and THAT is what prevents them from getting in the stores.

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I'd argue that it's lack of adequate distribution, more than discounts and returns, that keep most small presses out of bookstores, as I mentioned in another thread. It's very good that you have those discounts and returns policies in place, though, and any small press that manages to impress Dave is one to watch, certainly. Best of luck to you.

Apart from the POD aspect, what would worry me is that there’s only one book in its bookstore.

Hi JC,
I'm a small publisher, too, and understand the struggle to get your books into bookstores. The problem I see with your model is that even though you offer discounts and returns, most chains and independents aren't going to know your books are available if you don't have national distribution channels to sell them. Being listed in the Ingram catalog only means that if a store calls up specifically to order your books, Ingram will get them a copy. It doesn't mean that Ingram is out there pitching your books to stores. The other problem with POD is that most trade publications won't review them unless they ARE distributed nationally, which then makes it difficult for book buyers to know they are available--it's a nasty circle and probably not a very fair method, but there you are. I hope your company is a great success--good luck!

Nomad, how do small presses get national distribution?

Nomad,

how do small presses go about the process of national distribution and do you mean distribution online?

I think you can publish globally through lulu.com and other POD self publish sites, but I doubt this global availability is what you are referring to...please elaborate on the subject if you would, or others who can answer the question.

james

No, I mean distribution to bricks and mortar bookstores. Small presses contract with distributors (companies whose job it is to sell books to independent bookstores, wholesalers, catalogs, museums, etc. etc.), who rep the books to these places and take a percentage of the sale. Online sales are only a very small part of most publishers' revenue.

And--going by the experience of friends of mine who started a children's publisher a few years ago--it's quite difficult for a small publisher to get a good distributor to agree to carry its books, unless the publisher already has a backlist.

Last time I checked, online sales accounted for less than 10% of all book sales. Most books are bought in physical bookstores. If a small publisher wants its books to sell in quantities greater than three digits, bookstore presence is essential.

- Victoria

If you start out well-capitalized, do everything right, and have some luck, you might start breaking even in year five or six.