The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

cynrad22 · Jan 5, 2009

M.R.J. Le Blanc said:
Still, with things being a little unsure right now with the economy I'm sure those new authors still aren't going to be buying bulk like PA authors once did. People seem to be taking more care about what they spend and where they spend it. Yeah, you make still get those who'll throw a lot of money buying their own books, but I think the people not buying is starting to outweigh those that are. Those few that do buy isn't going to do much if the majority aren't. And we all know the expensive tastes of the Stooges. Eventually things are going to start getting repo'd.

I am that happy few that do not buy my book. If that meanS that they are going under because of my little action...GREAT!

cynrad22 · Jan 5, 2009

Afinerosesheis said:
Those two, Frenchie and the OP are two of the meanest, sneakiest souls on the PAMB. They gang up on noobs and as you see in this post, smack them down quickly for saying anything even remotely anti-PA. I had run-ins with them and there came my final banning. Guess I owe them a thank you?

PAMB....never tried it. I found this sight and didnt see the sense in trying. Now.... :Shrug:

Whats the worst that can happen? Oh i know, i will get banned from the board. Ahhhhhhh, if only my well worded message would reach even one person... oh to dream. Hey by the way....
Any one get an email from smccord? He emailed me some time ago. and said some things i am on board with, but since being burned before by PA, and getting more than helpfull info from all of you, i thought i woud pose the question to you to see if i was alone. A girl cant be too carefull these days...lol

Afinerosesheis · Jan 5, 2009

cynrad22 said:
PAMB....never tried it. I found this sight and didnt see the sense in trying. Now.... Whats the worst that can happen? Oh i know, i will get banned from the board. Ahhhhhhh, if only my well worded message would reach even one person... oh to dream. Hey by the way....
Any one get an email from smccord? He emailed me some time ago. and said some things i am on board with, but since being burned before by PA, and getting more than helpfull info from all of you, i thought i woud pose the question to you to see if i was alone. A girl cant be too carefull these days...lol

Never got an e-mail from an smccord. Don't think I've ever heard of them.

I wish I'd found this place first. I remember being on the PAMB and every now and then this board was brought up and B A D things were said. Scared me away from here for awhile. That is until I puked up the kool-aid, then I came here and felt free.

I did make a couple of friends on the PAMB that I am still in contact with today. It was worth a little time there to get to know them and also to learn the truth.

Don Davidson · Jan 5, 2009

JulieB said:
Is there a reversion clause in the contract that will return your rights in that event?

No. Paragraph 26 of the contract says the contract "shall be binding on, and inure to the benefit of . . . successors and assigns of Publisher. . . ." I would think that if PA went out of business, someone could, theoretically, buy the publishing rights to PA's books and then hold the same contractual rights now held by PA. But on the other hand, who would want the publishing rights to PA's books unless they intend to adopt PA's business model? If no one bought PA's rights, I would think the rights would then revert to the author--which would probably be the most likely outcome if PA went belly up. (Cue Beach Boys music: "Wouldnt it be nice. . . .?")

JulieB · Jan 5, 2009

Ouch. INAL*, but if you they do go under and you don't get your rights back in writing, I don't think you can do anything with your book until the contract period runs out. There are folks here better versed in the legalities of such a think who can better answer that.

* And I don't play one on TV.

PVish · Jan 5, 2009

From the horse's, er, mouth. Infocenter chimes in:

Thank you, Rudy.
PublishAmerica is arguably in a better position than just about any other traditional press to face today's challenges. Finances are in great health, the company has always been debt-free, operations are lean, our product is as popular as ever, and last year PublishAmerica grew bigger than ever before.

The secret of our success is no secret: PublishAmerica provides an absolutely free service for our almost 35,000 authors, who bring just as many small niche markets with them. If an economy wants to hurt an enterprise such as ours, it must first fatally hurt the worlds that spin around our authors. That's not happening.

Our authors still write great prose. They still are experts in their fields. They are looked upon with deserved awe and respect. The universes in which they move may consist of a few hundred or a few thousand individuals, but our authors do have something to offer to them, to entertain, to teach, something that can be found nowhere else. As long as they write their words, PublishAmerica will print and distribute them. We serve those micro niches, we connect them, we bring our authors' words to their readers.

It's apparently true that the big commercial houses have been losing readers. PublishAmerica however has found new readers. With each new author we add new readers -- we have never added more authors than we did in 2008, and we never sold more books, too. At higher sales prices than before, for good measure. When others slashed their prices in order to be competitive, PublishAmerica raised them. We were confident that our readers would be willing to pay what it takes to obtain the quality works of our authors, and we were right.

As a result, we sell more books, written by more authors, at higher prices, yielding higher royalties, and leaving our organization on solid grounds. We enjoy a uniquely high author loyalty: each day, forty percent of our new book contracts go to authors who already have one or more books in print with PublishAmerica. We don't know how many authors actually complete a second book, but reportedly it's less than half. This suggests that virtually every PublishAmerica author who wrote a second book stays with us.

Surprised? Not if you read the papers. There is pretty much no newspaper left that hasn't reported on yet another PublishAmerica author. We aren't big on big-name celebrities, but man, do we have a big supply of grassroots heroes to share. They are our core strength, our tens of thousands of hard-working, successful, proud authors. They live on Main Street, and they serve Main Street niches.

As long as PublishAmerica does what its name says it does, publishing America, we're on Main Street. That's where the nation's backbone is. A spine that is as steeled and solid as it ever was.

Anybody up for a line-by-line on this one?

Mel · Jan 5, 2009

Can I throw up now?

DamaNegra · Jan 5, 2009

PAMB said:
It's apparently true that the big commercial houses have been losing readers. PublishAmerica however has found new readers. With each new author we add new readers -- we have never added more authors than we did in 2008, and we never sold more books, too. At higher sales prices than before, for good measure. When others slashed their prices in order to be competitive, PublishAmerica raised them. We were confident that our readers would be willing to pay what it takes to obtain the quality works of our authors, and we were right.

(Bolding mine)
:Wha:

merrihiatt · Jan 5, 2009

This is the best description of PA I have heard and they said it themselves:

As long as they write their words, PublishAmerica will print and distribute them.

Notice they don't say that they are a publisher. No. They state the truth -- we print and distribute. Maybe that should be their tag line rather than the "traditional publisher" garbage.

triceretops · Jan 5, 2009

Dear gawd. The board sees this as confirmation that the big commercial houses are, and have always been, the enemy of the successful 'niche' author. What infoblow is really saying is that more PA authors have bought more of their own books in record numbers. That is why PA is solvent--they've never screwed more people than they have in the recent past.

Mr. B. found the koolaid vat again and took a heady draft. Then it was followed up with a reality slap--the one that brought back that dazed and empty Stepford Scribe look. Now everything is right with the publishing world. You walk in a drunken stupor and you have a flaming handprint across your face.

Tri

M.R.J. Le Blanc · Jan 5, 2009

Thank you, Rudy.
PublishAmerica is arguably in a better position than just about any other traditional press to face today's challenges.

Well duh. They're one of the few 'traditional press' since they don't exactly exist.

Finances are in great health, the company has always been debt-free, operations are lean, our product is as popular as ever, and last year PublishAmerica grew bigger than ever before.

They couldn't afford to be in the toilet. How would Miranda pay for her horses?

The secret of our success is no secret: PublishAmerica provides an absolutely free service for our almost 35,000 authors, who bring just as many small niche markets with them.

Oh, so that's what they're calling customers now. Niche markets. Good to know.

If an economy wants to hurt an enterprise such as ours, it must first fatally hurt the worlds that spin around our authors. That's not happening.

Either the Stooges are flat-out lying, or they're deluded.

Our authors still write great prose.

While I don't doubt there are some PA authors who could be pretty talented, you'd have to have a low standard of great to make such a blanket statement.

They still are experts in their fields.

Every PA writer's an expert in their field?

They are looked upon with deserved awe and respect.

By each other.

The universes in which they move may consist of a few hundred or a few thousand individuals, but our authors do have something to offer to them, to entertain, to teach, something that can be found nowhere else.

Yeah, they're called manuscripts that have never seen the desk of a real editor.

As long as they write their words, PublishAmerica will print and distribute them.

Bolded by me. PA authors, read that carefully. Nothing about being a publisher. Very very telling.

We serve those micro niches, we connect them, we bring our authors' words to their readers.

Who 9 times out of 10 ends up being solely the author.

It's apparently true that the big commercial houses have been losing readers.

Really? I must have missed that memo.

PublishAmerica however has found new readers.

You mean authors.

With each new author we add new readers -- we have never added more authors than we did in 2008, and we never sold more books, too.

Yes, because more authors equals more people to buy books. They're the only ones that tend not to get the runaround unless the books are for signings or other promotion.

At higher sales prices than before, for good measure. When others slashed their prices in order to be competitive, PublishAmerica raised them.

....buh?!?!?! This doesn't even make logical sense! Who do you think customers are going to buy off Amazon if it came down to the overpriced PA book or an already competitive book that's been further reduced? Let's even say for sake of arguement both are of the same quality writing and calibre. I'll tell you who customers will buy - the cheaper one. Why? Because no one in their right mind would pay for an overpriced book. Unless they had money to burn.

We were confident that our readers would be willing to pay what it takes to obtain the quality works of our authors, and we were right.

Correction: PA was confident that their authors would be willing to pay what it takes.

As a result, we sell more books, written by more authors, at higher prices, yielding higher royalties, and leaving our organization on solid grounds.

Yes, because the only one seeing the majority of those 'royalties' is PA.

We enjoy a uniquely high author loyalty: each day, forty percent of our new book contracts go to authors who already have one or more books in print with PublishAmerica.

Thanks to the crap they shovel at their customers...I mean authors.

We don't know how many authors actually complete a second book, but reportedly it's less than half.

I'd like to know what reporter they've been talking to.

This suggests that virtually every PublishAmerica author who wrote a second book stays with us.

Very vague mathematics here. I'd like to see how this conclusion was reached.

Surprised? Not if you read the papers.

You mean the funny papers?

There is pretty much no newspaper left that hasn't reported on yet another PublishAmerica author.

They probably just did so because the author wouldn't stop harassing them, and printing the damn thing was cheaper and easier than restraining orders.

We aren't big on big-name celebrities, but man, do we have a big supply of grassroots heroes to share.

Really? Name one.

They are our core strength, our tens of thousands of hard-working, successful, proud authors.

So everybody's a celebrity huh? Funny how I never hear the name of a PA author outside of the PAMB unless they finally had enough of the kool-aid and came here.

They live on Main Street, and they serve Main Street niches.

Bad books - it's what's for dinner.

As long as PublishAmerica does what its name says it does, publishing America, we're on Main Street.

I've never seen you on any Main Street.

That's where the nation's backbone is. A spine that is as steeled and solid as it ever was.

Ah, patriotism. Only good when it doesn't come from crooks.

Christine N. · Jan 6, 2009

The secret of our success is no secret: PublishAmerica provides an absolutely free service

Yeah, and nowhere else is publishing called a 'service' to the authors...except vanity publishing.

And cutbacks? Sure, they cut out giving away author copies. Cut out 'editing' options.

Stacia Kane · Jan 6, 2009

Okay, I've never done one of these before...I don't think mine is as imaginative or finteresting as M.R.J.'s, but I'll give it a go:

PublishAmerica is arguably in a better position than just about any other traditional press to face today's challenges.

Because real publishers have to sell books to the public; we sell ours just to our authors and their families, who are guaranteed to buy at least a few copies.

Finances are in great health, the company has always been debt-free, operations are lean, our product is as popular as ever, and last year PublishAmerica grew bigger than ever before.

Because we have to keep signing new [strike]suckers[/strike] Authors every minute, as our old ones wise up.

The secret of our success is no secret: PublishAmerica provides an absolutely free service for our almost 35,000 authors, who bring just as many small niche markets with them.

Translation: The secret of our success is selling our books back to our authors, each one of whom is pretty much the only market for their books.

If an economy wants to hurt an enterprise such as ours, it must first fatally hurt the worlds that spin around our authors. That's not happening.

If an economy wants to hurt an enterprise such as ours, it must first fatally destroy our authors' abilites to buy their own books from us. That's not happening, because if they don't buy their own books they will never see a single copy.

The universes in which they move may consist of a few hundred or a few thousand individuals, but our authors do have something to offer to them, to entertain, to teach, something that can be found nowhere else.

The universes in which they move may consist of only a few dozen people, even, but we all know your mom is going to buy copies of your book, and so are you--no matter how broke you are. And what you offer the people who buy your book is pride in you; the people who love you will buy your book (from you, after you buy your own copies) whether they want to read it or not. Which is the way PA makes its money.

As long as they write their words, PublishAmerica will print and distribute them. We serve those micro niches, we connect them, we bring our authors' words to their readers.

You, your family and friends are certainly a "micro niche". And you, your family and friends are the only market PA "serves".

It's apparently true that the big commercial houses have been losing readers. PublishAmerica however has found new readers. With each new author we add new readers -- we have never added more authors than we did in 2008, and we never sold more books, too.

Think there's a connection there, between signing more authors and selling more books? Think HARD. Who is buying those books?

At higher sales prices than before, for good measure. When others slashed their prices in order to be competitive, PublishAmerica raised them. We were confident that our readers would be willing to pay what it takes to obtain the quality works of our authors, and we were right.

When others slashed their prices in order to entice the general public to buy their books, we raised ours, knowing you would still buy as many copies as you could. And you did.

As a result, we sell more books, written by more authors, at higher prices, yielding higher royalties, and leaving our organization on solid grounds.

I seriously doubt ALL of PA's books sold in a year exceeds the number of copies sold by real publishers--even by a single real publisher--in a year. 30,000 authors...let's say each buys a hundred copies...Anybody here think Random House sells less than 300,000 books in a year, over all of its titles? Or Simon & Schuster?

We enjoy a uniquely high author loyalty: each day, forty percent of our new book contracts go to authors who already have one or more books in print with PublishAmerica. We don't know how many authors actually complete a second book, but reportedly it's less than half. This suggests that virtually every PublishAmerica author who wrote a second book stays with us.

This is not only ridiculously specious math, it's specious reasoning. Who cares how many of your authors stay with you for a second book? All that tells you is they either haven't thrown up the Kool-Aid or they aren't able to get a deal with a real house. Heck, anecdotal evidence from the PAMB alone shows a large proportion of PAers go on to honest self-publishing (and yes, I'm aware that anecdotal evidence from the PAMB is as specious as the math and reasoning above.)

Surprised? Not if you read the papers. There is pretty much no newspaper left that hasn't reported on yet another PublishAmerica author.

Yes, but that essentially means nothing. Local papers did fawning stories on a certain David Gemmell plagiarist too; does that mean she was legit? Or that features editors have space to fill and are desperate for subjects? You decide.

We aren't big on big-name celebrities, but man, do we have a big supply of grassroots heroes to share. They are our core strength, our tens of thousands of hard-working, successful, proud authors. They live on Main Street, and they serve Main Street niches.

Okay, the first sentence is actually kind of a nice thing to say. I can't really snark on that. But the rest of it...once again, the translation of "Main Street niches" is "You, your friends and family."

As long as PublishAmerica does what its name says it does, publishing America, we're on Main Street. That's where the nation's backbone is. A spine that is as steeled and solid as it ever was.

As long as you're willing to drink the Kool-Aid and buy your own books, PA will continue to spit them out. They're getting rich off your dreams while you flounder in the gutter; they thank their gods for your steely spine because it means you're not ready to give up your dreams, which means they get to keep making money off you when it should be the other way around. They thank their gods for your steely spine because it means you believe your book can be the one that breaks out and succeeds, and you keep coming back.

So how'd I do?

M.R.J. Le Blanc · Jan 6, 2009

I'd say you did pretty darn good

I enjoyed that read

James D. Macdonald · Jan 6, 2009

Don Davidson said:
I would think that if PA went out of business, someone could, theoretically, buy the publishing rights to PA's books and then hold the same contractual rights now held by PA. But on the other hand, who would want the publishing rights to PA's books unless they intend to adopt PA's business model?

When Commonwealth went bust (remember that?) all the rights were bought by a third party who wrote to the authors and said words to the effect of "Pay me $$$ for the rights to your book or I'll publish 'em myself and pay you nothing at all."

Remember, if someone buys PA's assets, you had a contract with PA, not with the new rights holder. That new person can do anything his little heart desires with those rights.

Afinerosesheis · Jan 6, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
When Commonwealth went bust (remember that?) all the rights were bought by a third party who wrote to the authors and said words to the effect of "Pay me $$$ for the rights to your book or I'll publish 'em myself and pay you nothing at all."

Remember, if someone buys PA's assets, you had a contract with PA, not with the new rights holder. That new person can do anything his little heart desires with those rights.

It really doesn't make much of a difference, does it? Whether PA has our work or some third rater, our books are still are not selling.

JulieB · Jan 6, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
When Commonwealth went bust (remember that?) all the rights were bought by a third party who wrote to the authors and said words to the effect of "Pay me $$$ for the rights to your book or I'll publish 'em myself and pay you nothing at all."

Remember, if someone buys PA's assets, you had a contract with PA, not with the new rights holder. That new person can do anything his little heart desires with those rights.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why you need a contract with a decent reversion clause.

Unimportant · Jan 6, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
Remember, if someone buys PA's assets, you had a contract with PA, not with the new rights holder. That new person can do anything his little heart desires with those rights.

James, do you mean that if one publisher gets bought up by another, the second press gets the rights (print, electronic, whatever) to the titles the first one had contracted, but is not obligated to pay the royalties etc as they were originally contracted?

M.R.J. Le Blanc · Jan 6, 2009

If PA ever goes under, and if I ever had the money I'd buy up those assests and give the writers back all their rights to their books. Just terminate the contracts. I'll even have a big public burning so everyone could get in on it

JulieB · Jan 6, 2009

The SFWA model contracts provide some good examples of reversion and bankruptcy/insolvency clauses.

kullervo · Jan 6, 2009

JulieB said:
The SFWA model contracts provide some good examples of reversion and bankruptcy/insolvency clauses.

And are badly in need of updating.

inkkognito · Jan 6, 2009

But doesn't a bankruptcy render the contract pointless, in which case the clause would be a moot point? I thought that at that point it all goes into the hands of the bankruptcy court.

merrihiatt · Jan 6, 2009

I apologize in advance for the length of this post; however, I feel it is an important example of how PA has communicated with me.

I sent my fourth round of three separate e-mails to PA asking for the rights to my book back, for PA to delete a “testimonial” they state I made where my name was misspelled and to ask why I had been banned from the PA message board.

I received a response to list my reasons for wanting my book rights returned. I complied, (for the fifth time -- thank you, cut and paste feature!). I received a prompt response which I have posted below. PA's answers are in bold under each section.

I will make no comments on this interaction; however, if you are a PA author, or are considering signing with PA, is this the kind of interaction you would want with your publisher?

In the note PA sent me back, in the subject line, it said, "Merri Hiatt: compares herself to Nora Roberts" (bolding mine)

Hi Mxxxxxx,

Thank you for your response. I have sent my reasons several times before, but will gladly do so again.

The reasons I would like the publishing rights to my book, TITLE DELETED BY MERRI, returned are:

1) There is no demand for my book (as noted in paragraph #22 of my contract with PublishAmerica). My friends and family will not be purchasing my book. Most people do not purchase books online unless they can read several of the pages to get a feel for the author's writing style. PublishAmerica holds the digital rights to my book and doesn't allow the "look inside" feature on Amazon.com, so no one can read a few pages before deciding whether to purchase a book or not. I will not be purchasing any books from PublishAmerica. Therefore, the demand for my book will be zero in the future, just as it is zero today.
Maybe so, maybe not. We'll see. Either way, this is the publisher's call to make, not the author's.

2) The retail price of the book is too high. I won't pay $24.95 for a book by an unknown author and don't believe other people will either. Friends and family have told me that if my book was priced more reasonably, they would consider purchasing a copy. But when they can buy a Nora Roberts book for $6.99 and mine (an unknown author) retails at $24.95, my book doesn't stand a chance.
We disagree.

3) Two of the Barnes and Noble stores in my area have told me they will not stock my book. I have learned that this is not an uncommon problem with print on demand books and with books printed by PublishAmerica.
Their loss.

4) I have been told by several bookstore managers that PublishAmerica books are of inferior quality (riddled with errors and are poorly constructed) and that they will not stock books printed by PublishAmerica. These same bookstore managers have noted that PublishAmerica's return policy, low discount and high retail price make it almost impossible for them to sell a PublishAmerica book.
Really? In that case, Barnes and Noble must be really stupid for placing orders for PublishAmerica books 800 times in the last two weeks of December. Other bookstores ordered an additional 1,500 times in the same two weeks.

5) I understand that PublishAmerica's business model is to sell books to their authors. PublishAmerica makes books available to bookstores and then discourages those sales by pricing the books too high, offering a low discount, charging a restocking fee and charging shipping/handling. All of this does nothing to promote bookstores purchasing a PublishAmerica printed book.
You misunderstand.

6) I have received numerous solicitations to buy my own books. PublishAmerica targets their authors as their main audience, not the public. Because of this fact, I can guarantee there will not be a demand for my book because I will not be purchasing any more copies. As I stated above, my friends and family will not be purchasing my book. If they won't be buying it and I won't be buying it and it won't be available in any bookstores and almost no one purchases a book online that they can't read a few pages of. There is no audience for my book.
That's correct, just in case you're one of the 8,000 PublishAmerica authors who elected to have copies of their own book on hand last year. There's nothing wrong, unethical, or immoral about being one of those authors, you know.

7) All of my posts and my access to the PublishAmerica message board have been deleted without an explanation, even though I have contacted author support four times asking why. I don't understand why there has been no follow-through explanation of this strange behavior by PublishAmerica.
True, nor do we owe any of our authors such explanation.

In light of all of the above, given that you have provided us with no convincing reason to cease the publication of your book just weeks after its release, your termination request has been denied.

I appreciate the time you have taken to read this e-mail and am glad
to have someone respond to my questions. Thank you!

Merri Hiatt

I sent this response:

Dear Mxxxxxx (or whomever replied as there was no name in the e-mail),

I was not rude at any point in my e-mail to you and am surprised that you have chosen to be rude in response. If I, as you claim, have "misunderstood," I would appreciate knowing how I have misunderstood.

Just for clarification, I didn't compare myself to Nora Roberts, I compared a book selling for the price of a Nora Roberts book. Stating that a well-known author's book is priced significantly lower than a PublishAmerica book by an unknown author. I was trying to point out the discrepancy in price, not that I compared myself, or my writing ability, to Nora Roberts.

Is there someone else at PublishAmerica that I might communicate with who will take my questions seriously and with the respect they deserve?

I appreciate your prompt reply.

Merri Hiatt

kullervo · Jan 6, 2009

inkkognito said:
But doesn't a bankruptcy render the contract pointless, in which case the clause would be a moot point? I thought that at that point it all goes into the hands of the bankruptcy court.

It does, and reverting the rights immediately back to the writer(s) unfairly prejudices their claims over those of creditors and other receivers. Such clauses are invalid.

Jersey Chick · Jan 6, 2009

Wow - that's just beyond rude. But, sadly, not at all surprising. But you kept your cool and that's good.

:Hug2:

for having to read something so obnoxious that it makes my blood boil for you.

The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

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