Overusing Personal Stories in Nonfiction?

I am working on a nonfiction proposal. I am wondering what your opinion is of the use of personal stories to bolster the subject matter of the chapter.


I am wary of doing this too much. I believe that christian books are filled with fluff and tend to be stuffed end to end with "personal stories" that end up filling a massive part of the book and actually leave little room for actual teaching or (maybe) are used to hide the fact that the writer didnt have much to teach anyway.

Do you think editors and agents

1) Love personal stories in books

2) Are tired of personal stories in books

3) Think adding personal stories signifies a novice

4) Dont really care


Joel Osteen's book, especially his newest is a TALK SHOP of personal stories that I personally feel are not only pathetically easy to write but also make things more fluff than substance. I KNOW that Osteen is a household name and therefore his books are selling, however, if a new writer or certainly obscure writer wrote similar fluff I doubt it would be published.

I noticed the same thing about Rick Warren's book as well. More fluff than substance. Short two page chapters. They appear more like sermons than books.


So my question is

Do agents RESPECT such styles in books or do they just allow the well known people to do this because their names sell.

"John was thrown out of his church. Instead of getting angry, John decided to pray for the church. In three years the church was closed down and John was promoted to President of his company."


I can see using some examples of things like this but really, has anyone noticed how it can become a crutch? Am I off on thinking it appears gimmicky and fluff? Yesterday I searched a dozen christian books and all I saw was John goes through this, Mary goes through that. I thought people buy books not just for empathy but to actually LEARN how to do something or stop something from happening to them.

I am wondering how you think agents and editors look at all of this.

Are personal stories fluff that marks a novice or a useful tool to hammer in the message of the book?

No one has any comments about this?

Thanks for replying. We both share the same opinion. Anything can be overdone. (Which is what I think I see when I open up some christian books)

But I believe that some stories do work.

Thanks

Thanks for the replies.


In Mr. Osteens case I do feel that his books are very easily written. Reviews on Amazon.com will agree with me. His book is being slaughtered there.

It is very easy to have chapters set up like:

Lead in
Personal Story
Chapter Close


There is a difference between a book and a "written down sermon" and I have read both.


And I was noticing that this is a style that appears to be developing a backlash because it is more fluff and hype than substance and is getting to be the norm and reviews I am reading are lamenting the habitual use of it-and since this is a site for "writers of all levels" I was coveting the knowledge I would get here instead of just perusing the religious section. Since agents and editors are often involved here I considered this site vital in supplying some valuable info.

Imagine that I wanted to be a in a hair band in 1990 but didnt know that butt rock was dying and that labels were dropping bands like flies for the next nirvana or Pearl Jam.

Imagine I saw a big boy band on TV and decided that it was a way to make money........and didnt know that agents and managers and industry insiders were shutting the door on any new acts because the industry was stagnant with them. By the sales of the top three names I might think that boys bands were still the huge item.......but talking to insiders and the educated would show that the perception was not the rule.


Yes, Osteen and Warren are selling books.......but both have huge churches and Osteen is on TV. It doesnt mean that either are crafted writers and if a person who doesnt have a church or a big name like them is going to write a book he cant just think that "Well Joel got a way with it and sold a million so this is what the industry wants" when in reality it might be that Joel got sold because Joel is popular but in general editors want substance, theory and proof instead of stories and fluff.

Since this is a more in-depth site this was why I was asking. As a relative of one of the New Kids on the Block band members I can tell you that people would always come up to them and try to force tapes and try to model themselves after the current sound and my relative would tell them, "NO! That is the last thing you want to do...this is a bubble about to burst. We are just riding it out but no new bands are being signed. Don't try to use someone else's formula. Especially not ours."

I would consider that info to be valuable. Wouldn't you?





Thank you for the constructive replies

Touche!

Really good points. I am reading a book ULTRAMETABOLISM and the personal stories are very very strong and help to support the authors case. He is using actual stories based on clinical cases he has personally observed. (A very strong practice)

In christian books I find that the use of stories can be less powerful because they tend to fake stories to support a conclusion they wanted to write about or simply choose a generic story and adapt it as though everything that happened was a result of the principal the author was trying to teach. (Which is not always the case)

Yes, Jesus used parables and stories are powerful. Having listened to 10,000 sermons in my lifetime I suppose I am biased or jaded because the majority of those I had to listen to were either lies, exxagerations or half told tales simply to support an agenda.

There is a big difference between the two stories below.


John was type 2 diabetic, had narcolepsy, high blood pressure, was 300 pounds overweight and could not function intimately with his wife. When he confided in me that he was considering suicide I decided that tough measures needed to be taken to save his life. Looking at his personal profile I was surprised to find that John was no stranger to dieting. In fact a search of his personal library revealed all of the best sellers for losing weight. John wasnt grossly obese because he wasnt dieting, to the contrary he was dying because he was constantly binging and purging after following all of the sensational diets that would come his way. The first thing I did was have John throw away all of his books. I told him that those books were killing him just as much as the food he was putting into his systems. We threw out all of the pills, the shakes, the powders, the frozen diet food and all the other money making, unnatural garbage that the diet industry convinces people that they need to lose weight. I then told John to begin eating meat again, any kind, so long as it was served with whole vegetables. And you should have seen his face light up when I told him that he could have bread. Eat all of the bread you want. Just so long as it is whole grain and not made from flour. John began to lose weight. In one week he lost twenty pounds. Within the next three months he continued to feel healthier. His eyesight cleared up. His blood sugar balanced. He had a world of energy and his wife was constantly having to buy him new clothes because he was dropping sizes more than she could count. One year later John was another man. At his ideal weight, able to be intimate with his wife and completely free of diabetes.


Story Two


John was a bitter man. He was the type to complain and argue. He would nurse a grudge. Someone had hurt John long ago and try as he might he could not forgive the person. Eventually John lost his job, his wife and his family. When you cannot forgive someone, you end up being the one who pays the price. John eventually died of cancer. Learn how to forgive those who have hurt you and move on.




The difference between the stories is that story ONE was based on a clinical observation of a learned professional who was deeply involved with the case and showed how his program actually worked. In this story we see the prescription given to John and it is a prescription that is realistic, not fuzzy and is something that anyone can follow. Nothing is hidden from us. There is no pie in the sky answer.

In story two, the common christian or spiritual personal story we dont know anything about John except that he was bitter. (Who isnt?) He had been hurt. (Who hasn't?) John is not counseled but is used as the "train wreck" to prove the point. He is viewed as the villian in this story. Shouldnt we be concerned about his hurt? Anyone notice the twist that the victim of hurt is being made the villian? No mention of finding who hurt John. Not a word about helping John. John is simply called bitter. Generic words that are used to negatively point to anyone we want to. The story then blames John for his failure in marriage, in his job. Perhaps his wife was cheating on him? Perhaps he was really a closet homosexual? Perhaps his pain from the past was used as a tool by his wife? And the job? Maybe the job sucked. Maybe John REALLY quit his job. Are we to trust the storyteller when he is using almost a gossipy tone with black and white assumptions overly simplistic assumptions? And then, worst of all John dies of cancer. The moral of the story is that if you are bitter you will lose everything and die of cancer. (I know of many happy successful people who have died of cancer) I know of many giving and loving people who have lost jobs and had failed marriages.

But the most important difference between the stories is that story one PRESCRIBES the answer or solution and shows how it works. Story two simply states an overly simplistic, pie in the sky, DONT BE BITTER, LEARN TO FORGIVE and FORGET response and then ends the story. Notice how no lessons are given on how to heal from hurts from the past in order to keep from being bitter or to release that bitterness. No examples or steps are given on how to forget what others have done to others. And not ONCE is there any responsibility for abuse or hurt placed on anyone elses shoulders except John. The moral of this second story is that if you are hurt you are the enemy, the villian and are going to die a miserable death. I know of bitter people who are multimillionares. In fact, one of them gave me a coaster that says, Success is the best revenge. I am sure this will not fit into the overly simplistic pie in the sky story (story 2) or the agenda it is trying to preach. Forgiveness is a necessary thing. It appears that neither John nor we are going to be told how to do this by the author of story 2.


So there are powerful personal stories and there are fluff pieces of agenda laden, factless lies that are used simply to push a belief.

I support the former.

They were just examples that I made up. And I wasnt going to spend an hour on a single post. If you open up Joel Osteens book you will see plenty of versions of story 2 and if you open up Ultrametabolism you will see examples of story 1.

Levi,

My baby takes a shower.


And Joel just pocketed a cool 13 million advance for his newest book.

I dont object to religious books. Far from it. I find that many of the books from the Emergent church are daring and contain really important stories. I also dont hate Joel Osteen ( I like him much more than his father) but I found his book very dissapointing and shallow. It is little more than a series of sermons written down. When a tv series or show makes it to the big screen it is often criticized if it is simply a transfer (the tv show on a big screen) because it is just expected that the movie be bigger and deeper than the show. I feel the same way with books. When you name a book YOUR BEST LIFE NOW and sell it in hardcover I expect it to live up to the title. Why is it that I have never been dissapointed with an Anthony Robbins book? He uses stories and also prescribes real answers instead of fluff.

Billy Graham has written books that are more in depth than his sermons. So has Benny Hinn. So has Pat Robertson. I dont object to religious material, just fluff.

Reminds me of a TBN Minister who preached on tv...the sermon I am going to preach to you is going to transform your world! It is going to get your families out of debt. It is going to heal your marriage. It is going to help wipe away your past altogether and enable you to take hold of all God wants for you today! Stay tuned because if you are not completely transformed by this message by its end then you don't have a pulse.

So I watched it. In fact I taped it. And I can tell you that I doubt anyone got out of debt because he didnt preach about wealth or finances, he didnt show how to heal marriages, nor did he give any pointers for transforming our lives. It was the usual, vague, GET AHOLD OF GOD type of sermon. Now, when this is on a tv show he paid for with his own money I have no problem with people like him stretching the truth. But when they put out a book in hardcover I expect more from it than the same fluff. Especially when these guys are going to be pocketing millions in advances.

I think we all understand each other and probably share similar views.

I am using personal stories in the book I am writing, but I am not picking them because they support my agenda. Instead I am forming my chapter around several stories.