Pastor Complains; Waitress Fired

CrastersBabies

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As the world gets smaller via technology, these type of things are bound to happen. It's not such a black-and-white area in regard to ethics. The public has been given the power to judge people by their actions. I've never known a person in my circle of friends/acquaintances/colleagues who have ever written something so cowardly and shitty on a receipt.

Someone who runs a red light, argues with a spouse, feels momentary pleasure when a nemesis falters, has a mild crush on a Hollywood star, that's called Being Human. What this woman did (punishing someone who served her by taking TIME to write a demeaning and insulting remark on a receipt) is called being an asshole. I can see her "being human" if she'd simply not left a tip and went about her way. But, she had to rub the server's nose in it and advertise her doucheyness in nice, crisp, Christian penmanship.

No, this is not about human nature. If folks out there truly know people this vile, then all I can say is, get some new friends.

Furthermore, think twice about acting like a jerk. That used to be the golden rule. Now, the public is there to judge. One could argue that it's actually a fairly democratic system.
 

Gynn

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I'm glad her name was posted to the internet. I bet she was pretty smug when she wrote that line on her tab. Not so smug, anymore! Now she and Applebee's both are feeling the scorn of the online community.
 

thebloodfiend

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How the eff is she being bullied? Seriously? When someone I don't even know is shitty to me, am I obligated not to tell anyone about it, because other people knowing about it=bullying?
Eh, you confuse what bullying is. If someone does an act of aggression and the person who is on the receiving end is unable to match with response, then the aggressor is the bully. If the aggressee is able to respond and does so, then it is crossed swords - the two might parry back and forth or they might laugh at the end. If the aggressee escalates with disproportionate aggression, then the aggressee might become the bully.
No, it's one of those alternate definitions of bullying.

Saying shitty things to minimum wage workers = normal human behavior.

Reporting shitty behavior online = bullying.

This is, in a way, similar to that story about the teens and their racist tweets. Just another note—don't write anything you don't want other people to see unless it's in an encrypted file on your computer or you trust the singular person you're sending it to. There is no such thing as privacy.
 

Xelebes

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No, it's one of those alternate definitions of bullying.

I don't know who's alternate definitions.

Saying shitty things to minimum wage workers = normal human behavior.

While it may be normal, it is a form of aggression. Due to client privileges and class privilege, the minimum wage worker is unable to react under the normal rules, thus it might be bullying if. . .

Reporting shitty behavior online = bullying.

That cannot be done. Because it can and is done, it is crossed-swords.

This is, in a way, similar to that story about the teens and their racist tweets. Just another note—don't write anything you don't want other people to see unless it's in an encrypted file on your computer or you trust the singular person you're sending it to. There is no such thing as privacy.

That comes down to proportionality of the response more than anything.
 

thebloodfiend

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Dude, I was being sarcastic. I was agreeing with you.

Suppose I should've brought out the handy emote of internet confusion clarification: :sarcasm
 
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Don

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Having worked in a restaurant, I can also testify to the, "Don't be shitty to people who handle your food" proverb.
I've always found how people treat those who serve them a fine indicator of both character and intelligence. If you can't be grateful to someone who's making your life easier in some way (bringing cooked food to your table, for example) then I've got a pretty good handle on your character, and you're never going to make my BFF list, because you're more about power than personality whether you realize it or not.

And if you're not smart enough to realize that waitstaff have access to your food when you can't see it, you probably shouldn't be allowed out in public without adult supervision in the first place.
 

CrastersBabies

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I've always found how people treat those who serve them a fine indicator of both character and intelligence. If you can't be grateful to someone who's making your life easier in some way (bringing cooked food to your table, for example) then I've got a pretty good handle on your character, and you're never going to make my BFF list, because you're more about power than personality whether you realize it or not.

And if you're not smart enough to realize that waitstaff have access to your food when you can't see it, you probably shouldn't be allowed out in public without adult supervision in the first place.

I'll take your suggestion and raise it by one more thing: everyone should have to work in the service industry for a short time, just to understand what these folks go through on a daily basis.

I went on a date with a guy who seemed nice until he started yelling at the waitress for not getting his order exactly right. I don't mean just being passive aggressive or making a snide comment, I mean full-blown yelling at the woman and calling her an idiot. I excused myself to the bathroom, left a $20 tip with the hostess (to give to the waitress) and left. He never called back. Thank God.
 

mccardey

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I'll take your suggestion and raise it by one more thing: everyone should have to work in the service industry for a short time, just to understand what these folks go through on a daily basis.
.

I made my kids do it, for just that very reason. (It was the ex-waitress in me, breaking through again...)
 

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"If the person you're with is nice to you but rude to the waiter, they're not a nice person." - Dave Barry
 

ladyleeona

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I'll take your suggestion and raise it by one more thing: everyone should have to work in the service industry for a short time, just to understand what these folks go through on a daily basis.

Gods yes. I've done a tiny, tiny stint as a waitress when the coffee shop/luncheon place I worked at was short-handed. It was enlightening, to say the least. When you're prompt with food, courteous and attentive but still don't get a tip it's infuriating--and all that happened in the 4 total hours I've waitressed. Those who've stuck it out for any length of time more than earn my respect.

Also, I don't see why anyone would berate the person who gets left unattended with their food...?
 

Gretad08

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I worked in the same restaurant all through high school and college. I learned a lot about how shitty some people can be, but also about how awesome others are.

I had stranger come up and give me five bucks once because he was watching me wait on a large party who wasn't being very nice. I hadn't even helped him, but he said "You've been running like crazy, and they aren't gonna tip you." I also saw people buy drinks for others, start friendly conversations with the strangers next to them, and leave huge tips for no other reason than generosity.

I always said, for every jerk you wait on, there are 20 tables who are considerate and kind. It's just that the bad ones stick out a little more sometimes.

FTR, I'm glad Alois Bell was called out. Perhaps this will help her relationship with God, and she'll be a better "pastor" for it. I still have issues with calling her a pastor, but that's for another conversation.
 

robeiae

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I always said, for every jerk you wait on, there are 20 tables who are considerate and kind. It's just that the bad ones stick out a little more sometimes.
Sure, something like that. The inverse is also true: for every twenty (or what ever the number really is) good servers, there's a jerk of a server.

FTR, I'm glad Alois Bell was called out. Perhaps this will help her relationship with God, and she'll be a better "pastor" for it. I still have issues with calling her a pastor, but that's for another conversation.
I think it's incredibly silly. I don't know a thing about any of the people involved in all of this. Sure, she looks like a jerk, but this kind of attention can be unsettling; don't know how I'd react. And the waitress who posted the pic? For all we know, she may be the worst employee at the place, may treat customers badly, may be lazy, may be one of those servers who treats people with disdain and condescension, then gets all outraged when the tip isn't enough to suit her. You know the ones I'm talking about. You can tip them 30% for shitty service and they still act this way.

So this "calling out," as it were, strikes me as kind of an exercise in schadenfreude; some of the people--not speaking of anyone specifically, here or anywhere else--doing it are likely far worse sorts of people.
 

Gretad08

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Sure, something like that. The inverse is also true: for every twenty (or what ever the number really is) good servers, there's a jerk of a server.

I think it's incredibly silly. I don't know a thing about any of the people involved in all of this. Sure, she looks like a jerk, but this kind of attention can be unsettling; don't know how I'd react. And the waitress who posted the pic? For all we know, she may be the worst employee at the place, may treat customers badly, may be lazy, may be one of those servers who treats people with disdain and condescension, then gets all outraged when the tip isn't enough to suit her. You know the ones I'm talking about. You can tip them 30% for shitty service and they still act this way.

So this "calling out," as it were, strikes me as kind of an exercise in schadenfreude; some of the people--not speaking of anyone specifically, here or anywhere else--doing it are likely far worse sorts of people.

Yeah, I agree with you, although the original action of Bell was nasty even before she got the negative attention.

I knew servers who were complete asses and acted like they were doing patrons a favor by gracing them with their presence. That's just life.
 

Torill

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I'm glad her name was posted to the internet. I bet she was pretty smug when she wrote that line on her tab. Not so smug, anymore! Now she and Applebee's both are feeling the scorn of the online community.

I really don't agree with this. Maybe she was smug when she wrote that message on the bill, maybe not. Maybe she was angry, stressed out, filled with an 'I'm-really-not-going-to-take-any more-shit-from-anyone-anymore' attitude. Who knows. Certainly not you or me - and that's not the point here, either.

Her act was shitty and can be called out and commented upon, her person is something we don't know very much about and should rather refrain from discussing imo. And the punishment of having her identity revealed on the internet for what she did? Totally out of proportion.

Now that her name and the place she lives and works are revealed, some might be fueled by the angry posts about her and seek her out personally to harass her. And not only her, but her family and her congregation, too, who really have nothing to do with any of this. Some might stop at pointing fingers, whispering and/or give nasty comments etc. - but others may go further and do things like place turds in her post box etc. etc. Not saying any of this will happen, but it might. The net is filled with all sorts of people, jerks and weirdos included. Expose someone to this kind of risk for one incident of less than commendable behaviour at a restaurant? Totally not cool.

I think it's incredibly silly. I don't know a thing about any of the people involved in all of this. Sure, she looks like a jerk, but this kind of attention can be unsettling; don't know how I'd react. And the waitress who posted the pic? For all we know, she may be the worst employee at the place, may treat customers badly, may be lazy, may be one of those servers who treats people with disdain and condescension, then gets all outraged when the tip isn't enough to suit her. You know the ones I'm talking about. You can tip them 30% for shitty service and they still act this way.
This is all very true. We don't know anything about the personality or circumstances of the people involved in this case. The pastor may be a saint in all other respects, and slipped up on this particular occasion only because she was off her medication. Or something. Or she may be a total shithead in everything she does. And all the waitresses involved may be jerks, too. Maybe they steal from the cash register, spit in everybody's soup, bully all the guests and kick their puppies at home. We don't know.

As far as I'm concerned, the point here - the thing to 'call out' - is not the personality and general morality of anyone involved. It's the particular act reported, and the tendency among some people (not the majority, as Gretad08 pointed out above me) to think they're entitled to take out all kinds of shit on low paid workers engaged in serving them one way or the other. That's worth pointing out and discussing imo. Not a silly issue at all as far as I'm concerned. If it could educate at least some people that this is not OK, then it would be worth it. (It may not, of course - but that's true of any discussion on any topic on the net...)
some of the people--not speaking of anyone specifically, here or anywhere else--doing it are likely far worse sorts of people.
Absolutely true. Of course. Like I said, the net is filled with all kinds, and you don't really know the persons behind the various usernames. Some may indeed be the kinds who steal and cheat and bully children and kick puppies. Absolutely. But just because some hypocrites may take part in a discussion because of schadenfreude, it doesn't mean the discussion itself is wrong and shouldn't have happened. Doesn't even mean that what the hypocrites are saying is wrong. They may be very right, in fact, even if they don't live by their own wonderful sentiments.

Separate the person from the argument is always a good strategy. 'You're just a hypocrite' or 'You're not any better yourself' are really not winning arguments in any discussion.
 
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Ambrosia

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I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for the "pastor" at all and I am glad she was outed. Arguing that we don't know if she was just "having a bad day" and isn't really a jerk is disproved by her next actions after leaving the snotty message on the bill--calling the restaurant and demanding all the servers be fired.

No, this woman deserves the public shaming for her actions and her attitude, which certainly is not the attitude of the deity she is supposedly representing. Perhaps this event will align her with her professed path. One can only hope.
 

muravyets

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I partially agree with Ambrosia, maybe 80%.

I agree that this woman's behavior is indeed an indicator of her character. I disagree pretty strongly with the counter-argument that we can't know anything about a person's character or personality by observing their behavior. How else are we supposed to know about people? We're not psychics. The only way any of us knows anything about anyone else is by observing their behavior. This is why it's important to be as objective as possible and stay mindful of context, so we can make rational judgments about just how good or bad a person's actions are, and just what various kinds of actions indicate about a person and what they don't fairly tell us. I maintain that this woman's specific actions do reveal character, and therefore it is fair to discuss her character.

However, regardless of her, we also have to watch ourselves. We have to be fair. Fairness does not require us to make excuses for her or to pretend that we don't know she's a nasty person despite all the evidence she gives us through her behavior. It does require us to make sure whatever blowback she receives is in proportion to the offense she gave.

I argue that what she did is fairly answered by public ridicule of her actions. Her action was bad enough to be balanced out by that level of condemnation of said action. But it was not bad enough to warrant being put at risk of her personal safety. Nobody's actions are bad enough to justify other people throwing them to the wolves that way. Once upon a time, we might have been able to name someone in calling them out this way, but in today's age of the death threat and stalking, bullying, harassment and hacking, that's just too great a risk. When other people have no sense of personal limits to their behavior, it doesn't do to throw fresh meat at them, as it were.

The simple extra step of cropping her name off the image of the receipt that was posted would have sent the right message, not the wrong one. It would be enough for her to be able to figure out that the posting was about her. The whole rest of the uncontrollable world doesn't need to know the name of the person they are commenting on. But the fact that the second waitress, who posted the receipt, was recklessly careless does not mitigate the badness of the pastor's behavior. I see no point in cutting her slack on that.
 
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Firstly, I hate the concept of tipping. I don't mind paying a service charge if it's included in the bill at a set price. I honestly don't know how people can live mostly on tips. It must be so stressful. And unfair. Work like a dog in the hope that someone will give you good money. They could just pay them a god damn living wage.

As for this woman...she was stupid posting that thing online. I never post about work on facebook. I have in the past and have regretted it. I've heard of too many stories like this. In this day in age you would have to be pretty dumb to think it would not bite you on the butt. My own sister got in trouble for bad mouthing her workplace on the train one morning. Someone she worked with overheard...

This woman should move on and find a better job.