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Thread: Samhain Publishing

  1. #1251
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    I'm not sure where we're disagreeing. I said that agents do more than negotiate and review contracts. It's up to the writer to decide if that's worth the 15%. I was only pointing out that some might find that worth the expense. You believe your agent when she says not. So be it. That's no more a universal truth than what I said. I never said it's universal.

  2. #1252
    Romance with Kick-Assitude! Cassie Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robjvargas View Post
    I'm not sure where we're disagreeing. I said that agents do more than negotiate and review contracts. It's up to the writer to decide if that's worth the 15%. I was only pointing out that some might find that worth the expense. You believe your agent when she says not. So be it. That's no more a universal truth than what I said. I never said it's universal.
    No arguments from me. I agree they do more but I also think an author needs to decide for epub if what they do is worth the 15%. For example, I would love an agent to brainstorm and review my writing to make sure it's sharp. I'm willing to pay for that but if an agent is only going to review contracts? I'd rather pay a flat fee.

    I'm totally for agents--in certain circumstances.
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  3. #1253
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    I am totally for agents. I'm also a big fan of real estate agents and would never buy or sell a house without one. I would love to have an agent now, but unfortunately I don't... yet. (still hopeful.)

    My hypothetical question is purely about getting a deal with an e-pub or e-pub plus some print like Samhain. My understanding is that the smaller presses work differently in the way they structure their contracts and are a bit easier for authors to navigate. Still I'm not sure I would want to go it alone. Read too many scary stories, not about Samhain but in general.

    So if you already got your own publishing deal with Samhain, you call an agency and say "I have a publishing contract and I need an agent to negotiate it," besides negotiating your contract what is the agent going to do beyond that? I've always had the understanding that when your agent is submitting to publishers your agent will act as editor, or they might have editors who work with you from the agency. But once you get a deal with a publisher and the contract is negotiated, I figured the agent would be more hands off and you would be dealing with your publisher.

    I suppose if later down the road your book was wildly popular and you were offered a movie deal, or graphic novels, or something like that you would involve your agent again to negotiate all of that.

    I also have the understanding that with a smaller press, your sales are most likely going to be smaller because you don't have such a large machine behind you. So maybe if you have an agent getting royalties who didn't do all the front end work of helping you polish and submitting to publishers for you, maybe the money isn't going to be worth it?

    I'm still unsure at this point. If my understanding is wrong, please correct me. I want to know people's opinions and make a wise decision when my time comes.

    Is there something I'm missing?
    Last edited by Sandsurfgirl; 07-30-2014 at 07:00 AM.

  4. #1254
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    I don't think you're missing much.

    Well, maybe about the agents doing editing before submitting. Some do, some don't. Some projects need it, some don't.

    But I think you're on to the key thing, which is that the sales aren't necessarily going to be high enough to justify an agent's attention.

    If you look at Brenda Hiatt or Veinglory's numbers, a typical expectation from a Samhain book would be $3K-$4K.

    A book that makes $4K for the author would, with an agent, make $3400 for the author and $600 for the agent. Over the course of several years. That's not a lot.

    I'm a bit believer in agents, too. But when I look at the time my agent is spending on my books (and the time she's spending communicating with me that SHOWS me the time she's spending), I can see how she wouldn't be able to afford to do that for $600 over several years.

    There ARE agents who sell to e-publishers, for sure. But MOST agents will submit to the bigger houses first, and then if there are no bites there they'll submit to the smaller houses. They don't walk away from the project entirely, but they resign themselves to an almost-certainly lower commission.

    So a reputable agent is not necessarily going to be interested in working with someone who's already skipped over the big fish and gotten an offer from a minnow. I'm not saying they WON'T, but they may not.

    There are a few e-first agents out there, agents who apparently submit only to e-first publishers, but there's debate about whether this is a viable business plan for the agent OR the writer. You could check out the thread on the L. Perkins Agency for some discussion on this.

    There's nothing WRONG with using an agent for e-pubs, if you're really that insecure about the contract and if you don't mind giving up the 15% AND if you can find a reputable agent willing to do the work for the probably low return. But don't get TOO worked up about the contract. You're a writer. You understand words. You need to put in the time to make sure you understand your own contract, even if you DO have an agent working for you.
    Last edited by Captcha; 07-30-2014 at 03:37 PM.

  5. #1255
    practical experience, FTW Pisco Sour's Avatar
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    In the UK, I joined The Author's Society and they vetted my e-contracts for free. Of course, the annual membership costs something about £90 but I think it's well worth it. Do you have a similar org in the USA or wherever you are based? Might be worth looking into what they can do for you.

  6. #1256
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    Thank you Captcha. You have confirmed everything I'm thinking. I wish I had an agent but I don't unfortunately.

    I was given the advice to submit this particular project to some small to mid size publishers. I have gotten lots of requests for the manuscript and agents have told me they loved my writing, think I'm doing a great job with this, that or the other, but it crosses genres and doesn't fit into a nice, neat marketing slot. I was told that it was so well crafted, etc. and one agent even gave me like a 5 paragraph email about how great it was but she didn't know how to sell it.

    Quite an emotional roller coaster. "Yay they love it!"
    "Boo... they won't represent it."

    I have another novel finished that is straight fantasy so hopefully I will get an agent for that one. It fits a niche much easier.

  7. #1257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisco Sour View Post
    In the UK, I joined The Author's Society and they vetted my e-contracts for free. Of course, the annual membership costs something about £90 but I think it's well worth it. Do you have a similar org in the USA or wherever you are based? Might be worth looking into what they can do for you.
    That's great. I don't think any of the author's organizations here do that. I think you either need to hire an agent or a lawyer. If there is such a thing I hope someone posts about it.

  8. #1258
    Grr. Argh. Thedrellum's Avatar
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    Sandsurfgirl,

    There's The Authors Guild, but you have to be a member just like with the UK's The Author's Society. Membership is $90 (again like its UK sister) and one of the benefits is free overlooking of book contracts.

  9. #1259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thedrellum View Post
    Sandsurfgirl,

    There's The Authors Guild, but you have to be a member just like with the UK's The Author's Society. Membership is $90 (again like its UK sister) and one of the benefits is free overlooking of book contracts.
    That's worth 90 bucks. I will check it out.

  10. #1260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandsurfgirl View Post
    That's worth 90 bucks. I will check it out.
    You have to already be published by a known publisher or have made $5000 over the past 18 months as a self published author, so for me with my first novel, I guess it won't help.

  11. #1261
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    Sandsurfgirl,

    I've also been following this thread and took a look at the link Thedrellum provided for the Authors' Guild. If you scroll to the bottom of the page on eligibility, there's also an option for an Associate Membership (all the same benefits but you can't vote in elections):

    You may qualify as an Associate member if you’ve been offered a contract with an established American book publisher, if an established literary agency has offered to represent you, or if you have earned at least $500 in writing income (including self-published writing income) as a book author or freelance writer in the 18 months prior to applying for membership.
    I'm thinking that this is for the benefit of people in a similar situation to what you've described - having an offer in hand but still needing advice on how to proceed. I hope this helps you!
    Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. -- Murphy's Law

  12. #1262
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwaitesyellow View Post
    Sandsurfgirl,

    I've also been following this thread and took a look at the link Thedrellum provided for the Authors' Guild. If you scroll to the bottom of the page on eligibility, there's also an option for an Associate Membership (all the same benefits but you can't vote in elections):



    I'm thinking that this is for the benefit of people in a similar situation to what you've described - having an offer in hand but still needing advice on how to proceed. I hope this helps you!
    Thanks I think there was some more language about what constitutes legitimate publisher that made me think they might still deny you depending on which small to medium press you go with.

    Well hopefully I get a publisher and I have this dilemma soon! LOL I'm big on preparing and details. I like to have all my ducks in a row. I don't want to be offered and contract and then go scrambling to figure out what to do and how to handle it.

    I did submit to Samhain. Crossing my fingers toes and eyes. lol

  13. #1263
    paranormal erotic romance gingerwoman's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with Captcha's points.
    I recently sold my second novel to Samhain. :-)

    I've never tried to get an agent, since the two novels I submitted to Samhain were written with the digital first market in mind. I negotiated the meta data clause, and Samhain got back to me with a new contract in a couple of days.
    Paranormal Romance -Menage - Erotic Romance from Samhain Publishing 4th place for Best Published Paranormal in the Passionate Plume award.

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  14. #1264
    Keeper of the pace. popgun62's Avatar
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    I am with an e-first publisher, and my agent is invaluable - she got my contract changed so the terms were in my favor, edits my manuscripts before the publisher gets them and will likely get me better deals on my future manuscripts. She is working on foreign rights, audio rights, movie rights and a myriad of other things I could never do on my own. I run ideas by her for future books, as well. 15% is a drop in the bucket compared to all the things she's doing to help me get ahead in the publishing industry. I don't know what I'd do without her.
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  15. #1265
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerwoman View Post
    I tend to agree with Captcha's points.
    I recently sold my second novel to Samhain. :-)

    I've never tried to get an agent, since the two novels I submitted to Samhain were written with the digital first market in mind. I negotiated the meta data clause, and Samhain got back to me with a new contract in a couple of days.
    Congratulations!!!

  16. #1266
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    I also have this crazy thought that if I got an agent to negotiate a contract that I had found myself, then maybe they would want to rep me for my other novels. Wishful thinking...

  17. #1267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandsurfgirl View Post
    I also have this crazy thought that if I got an agent to negotiate a contract that I had found myself, then maybe they would want to rep me for my other novels. Wishful thinking...
    And you would be right. My agent reps all my novels now.
    Author of high-octane sci-fi, fantasy and horror!

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  18. #1268
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    Quote Originally Posted by popgun62 View Post
    And you would be right. My agent reps all my novels now.
    Oooh now you're making me happy. Good for you!

  19. #1269
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    How is Samhain these days? Any changes now that Christina Brashear has taken over again? After dealing with EC the past few weeks and reading about author problems in the Entangled thread, I'm curious about author happiness at Samhain.

  20. #1270
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    I had a book come out from them in June, I think? Back then it was smooth and happy, and sales have been solid. Not great, but solid. No problems with royalties or anything.

    So... about the same, from my perspective.

  21. #1271
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    No problems here. I had a release in July and have others coming up in October, December, and January. Sales on new and backlist titles have been solid, royalties on time, cover art process great as always, and contract negotiations have gone off without a hitch. Everything is fine from where this author stands.
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  22. #1272
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    This may have been answered earlier in the thread, so I apologize if there's repetition.

    Is there a particular subgenre or gender pairing or whatever that seems to do best at Samhain? I ask because I have a contemporary M/F novel that's seeking a home since I canceled the contract another publisher had on it, and I'm thinking it might be a good fit for Samhain, but I know some e-pubs don't have great sales of hetero romance.
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  23. #1273
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    Sales Rank Express has a frustrating number of "No Data" entries for Samhain (not sure what that's about) but for the books that DO have ranks, I'd say het is doing well.

  24. #1274
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    I just submitted my first manuscript to Samhain. I have all my fingers and toes crossed now.

  25. #1275
    mad black formal sunflower Heidi Belleau's Avatar
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    Have there been any announcements or further news about Samhain's "LGBT Line" they announced a few weeks back?

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