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Samhain Publishing

Jennifer Robins

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Many thanks to all of you. I will let you know about Samhain as soon as I hear from them. haven't had any response yet.
I am really happy about Wild Rose. I heard so many good things about them. After a few bad experiences with other publishers, I am looking forward to this.
Wishing you all the best,

Jennifer
 

Sakamonda

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I have an agented submission with them right now for straight romance. According to the latest news I read via RWA, they are now only working with agented writers unless they have a prior publication relationship with unagented writers. They have a good reputation, and also recently worked out a distribution deal with Kensington that will get Samhain's print titles into mass-market hubs like Wal-Mart and Target.
 

kiwiauthor

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... only accepting queries from agents?

I find this puzzling. What agent worth their weight would pub a book to a small press that doesn't pay advances of any real value ($100), and who might sell a few thousand copies of an authors work a year?

I was of the understanding that agents generally didn't bother with presses as small as Samhain etc.?

Sakamonda, mind tellng us who your agent is?
 
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BarbaraSheridan

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I haven't seen anything on the Samhain authors' loop about going to agented submissions. And I agree I don't see an agent really submitting to a primarily e-press although I know some agents will look over any e-contracts for existing clients should the client wish to submit work to certain e-publishers.
 

veinglory

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As far as I know they will just be closed or open to general submissions. I am working away on my sequel for them and managed to place another novella there.
 

Gary Clarke

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Congrats on the novella and sequel, Veinglory!

I'm still waiting for news of your book arriving to my local shop. I'll let you know when they get back to me. Went to a big city Borders today, but no sign of any Samhain titles, so maybe they don't distribute to Europe and the local shop has to wait for a copy from the states?
 

Khazarkhum

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As far as I know they will just be closed or open to general submissions. I am working away on my sequel for them and managed to place another novella there.

Serious congrats are in order!

I'm wondering--don't agents generally look at the e-pubs the same way they do the short-story market? Isn't the advance/payment too slight to justify their time & effort? (I'm not blaming them, either--they have enough on their plates as it is.)
 

Sakamonda

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The latest info I saw posted at RWA was that at this time, Samhain was only working with agented authors. Maybe that's incorrect, but my agent had no problem subbing to them. He's in the business of making money, and pitches my work to markets where money seems to be being made.

And a growing component of Samhain's market is in print, especially since they have entered a mass-market print distribution arrangement with Kensington. Plenty of agents pitch to Kensington, and Kensington books generally don't pay large advances, either. And in general, most of the money agents make on the romance market as a whole is in the earn-outs, not in the advances. That's how my agent looks at it, anyway.

Many of the e-pubs may not pay advances or pay only small ones, but the earn-outs on their titles (especially erotica) can be MUCH higher than the earnings on a print romance title that doesn't earn out its advance.

Some agents shy away from the e-markets, but a growing number of agents are seeing how lucrative they can be (especially erotica) and are therefore looking at them more closely.
 

Sakamonda

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I'm also a longtime client of my agent and he's sold other books by me, so perhaps he's willing to do things for me that he won't do for new authors trying to pitch him. :)
 

victoriastrauss

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I'm also a longtime client of my agent and he's sold other books by me, so perhaps he's willing to do things for me that he won't do for new authors trying to pitch him. :)
Agents will often do things for established clients that they wouldn't do for new or prospective ones--submit short fiction, for instance.

I'm part of a pro writers' email loop, and there's a vigorous discussion going on right now about epublishing, advances, and agents. From what people on the loop (many of them experienced e-pub authors) are saying, successful agents do still seem to be avoiding epublishers (at least, as a primary submission strategy) because of the lack of advances, and also the unpredictability of the income. Writers with the bigger epubs can make quite a bit of money, but not all of the publishers' books sell equally well. Book by book, epub income still doesn't match up with print, for the most part.

- Victoria
 

Sakamonda

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Victoria has a point. I can cite another example. I write erotica under a pseudonym as well as "straight" fiction and nonfiction under my own name. My agent declined to rep my erotica at first (as many agents did in that genre for many years), but when I managed to sell my erotica to major print and e-pubs on my own, my agent stepped in and negotiated better contract terms for me. He then discovered through what I was doing how lucrative the erotica market has become of late (and many successful erotica authors are earning six figures-plus from the erotica epubs, and doing so without agents), and then started actively looking for other erotica authors to represent. So there are newer genres/publication venues that agents will deliberately avoid until/unless one of their established clients finds some success in it.
 

shriek

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According to the latest news I read via RWA, they are now only working with agented writers unless they have a prior publication relationship with unagented writers.
This is not the case. They are currently closed to open submissions. Normally, when they do this, they will still continue to look at submissions from currently contracted authors, and also from agented authors. When they re-open to general submissions they will once again look at submissions from everyone, agented and non-agented.
 

veinglory

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I would say that based on typical sales, the agents commission from an epublished book wouldn't go very far.... nor is it generally necessary to be agented but as Samhain is currentl close to general subs that would make a difference.

If it was a sure fire Kensington deal that would also be different, I imagine.
 

Sakamonda

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This is not the case. They are currently closed to open submissions. Normally, when they do this, they will still continue to look at submissions from currently contracted authors, and also from agented authors. When they re-open to general submissions they will once again look at submissions from everyone, agented and non-agented.

---This is _exactly_ the info I got from RWA. They are closed to submissions right now unless you have an agent or are already contracted with them. Of course, that might change later, but the only reason I could sub to them when I did was because I went through my agent.

They do indeed have the agreement with Kensington now that will place their print books in mass-market distribution at Wal-Mart, Target, grocery stores, etc., in addition to the bookstores they are already in. That's the kind of distribution that can generate _serious_ sale numbers, especially in romance.
 

veinglory

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It is not for their books in general but a very small proportion of them. Also only a fairly small proportion of their books are widely in stores.

I love Samhain a lot and will submit to them again as soon as I finish my next book. But I believe in being realistic as well as optimistic.
 

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... From what people on the loop (many of them experienced e-pub authors) are saying, successful agents do still seem to be avoiding epublishers (at least, as a primary submission strategy) because of the lack of advances, and also the unpredictability of the income. Writers with the bigger epubs can make quite a bit of money, but not all of the publishers' books sell equally well. Book by book, epub income still doesn't match up with print, for the most part.
This backs up what my all my agent buddies tell me as well.
 

veinglory

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There are sales and earning figures out there for those who are curious, Piers, Show Me the Money, EREC. Earning $100s is pretty good, $1000s rare (first year). Other than EC, Samhain is one of your best bets in this general area. Also probably Loose Id, Liquid Silver.
 

Angela James

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We are temporarily closed to general submissions with the exception of special projects, agented submissions and by editor invitation. That's a temporary situation while I hire new editors.

We do have an agreement with Kensington but none of us (including Kensington) know if the books will be in mass market or trade paperback. Emily is correct when she says it will be only a small percentage of our catalog--no more than two books a month and the first two will release in January 2009. Otherwise we have two other print programs for the remaining portion of our catalog that are print length.

We have worked with 10 to 15 agents, including agents such as Deidre Knight and Roberta Brown. We have a wonderful working relationship with the agents who have submitted their clients' work to us.

Hope that helps clear up some of the confusion!