The No News is No News Purgatory Thread, Volume 8

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OL

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Will do, Colby. I'll wait till tomorrow...er, later today.

Jo, it's interesting. I spent most of my so-called career in one of those "different" businesses -- the film/TV industry. I guess there's a wider latitude for acceptable behavior there, in some ways, though the increasing corporatization has changed that some. Not that making things more corporate necessarily improved the product, mind you. It probably made it worse. As for improving business practices? In some ways, but not in others. The conclusion that I came to is that there is a ton of incompetence, arrogance and favoritism in whatever field of business you care to look at, and that a lot of "good practice" is basically about funneling money up to a few guys on the top. A lot of modern US business doesn't give a crap about real productivity; it's more about stripping away assets and generating short-term gains to reward shareholders and again, the guys at the top. Vulture capitalism. I think there is an awful lot of mythology when it comes to the efficacy of much of modern US business. Not all of it, certainly. But a lot of it.

But I digress.

What I've noticed about publishing is that it really is a small town, even more so than film/TV. Everyone knows everyone, and people do favors for each other. Or they don't. There are inefficiencies and bad managers and bad business practices and stuff that makes my head spin. Worse than most other industries? I don't know. I also think there are a lot of high-quality people working in the business and that there's a huge problem with top-down, fear-based corporate decision-making that is stifling risk and endangering houses' futures by constantly making what are supposedly "safe" choices that in the long run, really aren't. It's that same, next quarter profit driven strategy that doesn't permit much investment in long-term growth and the future.

Re: agents, yeah. There are a lot of jobs where good communication isn't quite so integral as it is for agents. With SP and small presses shaking up the Club, personal connections that agents cultivate aren't as vital as they once were (though they are still pretty damn important). I wonder if there comes a point where the spaghetti agent model ceases to be profitable, because it's gotten so much harder to sell books and to sell books for decent advances. Or maybe that's the only way that some of them stay in business: take on a ton of clients, throw the work against the wall and enough stuff sticks to get by. I hate to think that model works, but it must, for some.

I feel very fortunate every day for the great good luck I've had with both my agents. I'm not writing books that are getting the crazy, lottery-like advances, but I've worked with agents who have been real advocates for me and who take the long view of things, and I've never had any of this bullshit with poor communication. I don't understand why that experience isn't closer to the universal than it is.
 

sammyig

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Morning all.

No strange dreams last night, just a stomach that killed me because friend used too much cayenne pepper in her jambalaya.

I am loosely thinking about turning my weird dream into a short story though.

Billie! Awesome!

Vfury- if you can, get the hell out of there as fast as you can.

OL- I'm lurving your book.
 

Maryn

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Morning, everyone.

Any plans for the Oscars? We haven't seen a single nominated movie this year, our patience with audience misbehavior having been exhausted. We may have the awards show on in the background as we do other things.

Maryn, sounding more like an old lady every day
 

charmingbillie

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One of the things that makes getting a good agent more complicated is that different types of communication work for different people. There are people who have good agents for them, whose agents are probably not people who would be good agents for me. (of course, that all assumes a minimum level of communication at its core). One of the things I really like about my agent is that she's been bang on about my books, about what they are and where they fit from day one. She's been consistent in her advice and it's been really helpful as I've talked through advances and book sales and all those other things.

And it's about the career, which I appreciate. I'm not convinced that some of the agents getting mega-advances for debut authors are concerned about the author's career (not all, but some). They're in it for the big hit and then the author is on their own.

Took Blue to the dog park this morning where it was cold, but where he gets to RUN. Which he likes. Though if there had been some small field rodents to kill it would have been even better!
 

J.S.F.

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I guess it's nice having an agent go to bat for you. First of all, I have to find one!

Oh, yeah, and write that great novel. Submitted my latest work to a publisher and they seemed very positive about it--but I have to wait.

And to top it all off, I caught a cold. Great....

(Shoves inhaler with legal medicine only up nose to open up stuffed head).
 

Amarie

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Here's something else that needs to change. The old method was to have authors publish one book a year in the same genre each time. But for the authors' sake, if you can't make a fulltime living doing that, then it shouldn't be accepted as the norm. We need to be able to publish more, if we can write fast enough, publishing in multiple genres if we can write in them, and with more than one publishing house or on our own. Our best interest is to get our name out there, have several books, and be able to survive by writing.
 

Calla Lily

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Morning.

Feel free not to read. It's whiny.

In a feedback loop of "I suck" over here. :-( Realizing that VT's release is just depressing me because I'm waiting on The Agent to work his magic with cheap, frightened bean-counters. Pub doesn't give a shit because they've cut me loose. YA edits aren't singing to me because here I am, no books in the publishing pipe, other writers I know are getting fricking NYT and NY Post mentions and my own hometown paper hasn't reviewed ANY of my books. Got an R on the religious horror (sure, I expected it because it was a Christian pub and they're even more scared of everything than bean-counters) and the gremlins are whispering "you suck you suck you can't write a decent grocery list you talentless hack" over and over and over.

I will attempt to rectify this when the guys are refereeing by some good horror and attaching the YA like Cthulhu on a buffet of Arkham residents.
 

Tasmin21

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{{Lily}} I know how you feel, darlin'. I didn't truly write anything new for the entire year of 2012, because I was just waiting for SOMEone to tell me wtf to do. It's hard being in limbo.
 

JoNightshade

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{{{{{{{Lily}}}}}}} You do not suck, and you WILL get another book out there. :)

Jo, it's interesting. I spent most of my so-called career in one of those "different" businesses -- the film/TV industry. I guess there's a wider latitude for acceptable behavior there, in some ways, though the increasing corporatization has changed that some. Not that making things more corporate necessarily improved the product, mind you. It probably made it worse.

I suspect film/TV is a lot like the publishing industry in many ways, actually. I bet having a large pool of people desperate to be in your business (writers or actors) goes a long ways to create the sort of idiocy that exists up at the top. I can't really think of other industries where this happens... journalism, probably?

Perhaps I should have distinguished between "small business" and "big business." I was definitely in the "small" category. That's where you exist to serve your customer, and if you don't communicate effectively with them and with the other people in your company, you are TOAST. And communication has to happen on time, or else your client goes elsewhere. I guess it's different in publishing because the author is the product... but since we're eliminating the barriers between the product and the client, authors have a much easier time reaching the client themselves. The middle man now has to justify his existence and provide extra value, since he no longer has a monopoly on the means of delivery.

Re: agents, yeah. There are a lot of jobs where good communication isn't quite so integral as it is for agents. With SP and small presses shaking up the Club, personal connections that agents cultivate aren't as vital as they once were (though they are still pretty damn important).

I'd think personal connections are becoming even more important. This is where mediocre agents fall behind. If they don't have those connections with the right people, they're not reaching the idea editors for their authors. Spaghetti agents get a bunch of decent manuscripts and they toss them to any editor who seems good. When the industry ran on volume that worked. Now, everyone's tightening their belts. The key is to get just the RIGHT manuscript to the RIGHT editor, and people who can do that will get you the best placement.

At least, that's what I think. YMMV ;)

Any plans for the Oscars?

The whuts? :D
 

firedrake

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(((((Lily))))) You are no hack, believe me. If you want hackery, just read some of the top selling authors in my genre.

Alas, Maryn, the Oscars are on in the small hours here. I shall be getting my beauty sleep so shall miss all the glitz, glamour and awkward silences when a presenter's joke fails.

Afternoon all. Another cold, grey day here. But the roast is in the oven, the veggies are prepped and I'm writing. I'm also still suffering from the suckitudes. The whole conference business has torked me off more than I thought it would. It's left me shaking my head at some of the divas and drama queens who write in my genre.
 

Calla Lily

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Colby, I RT'd your post. :)


fire, that's what gets me about big-selling "hacks". I want those big numbers. :(

Also, fire, ages ago you posted a link to a "Moist Lemon Cake" recipe. I didn't have a lemon in the fridge, but I had a lime. In the oven now is a lime-coconut cake. I'll let y'all know if it's edible. :)

Thanks for the support, gang. :e2grouphu

We never watch the Oscars. I've only seen 2 of the movies (Skyfall and The Woman in Black) and I have no patience with hours of posturing and long speeches and bad jokes. Plus, I have to get up tomorrow at 6:25.
 

xiaotien

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mornin' puglets!

family day and it's belated chinese
new year celebration at chinese school
which is always a lot of fun. =D

*hugs* lily pie. know that many of us
are in that place. it's pretty much essential
to focus on your OWN career and what is good
for YOU and your mentality and health throughout
your own career.

as mentioned with jealousy post, comparing
never helps. there are people doing LOADS better
than you and MORE people do LOADS worse than
you as far as their publishing career.

it is natural, but i think it's pretty much
essential to shake it off as soon as you
can for survival's sake in this business.

i've been there. i'm honestly not sure
if i'll ever publish traditionally again at this point.

but i will say, editor friend said such a
fantastic thing to me when i was feeling
*really* down a few years back. she said:
never forget YOU are in control of your
own writing career.

isn't it so easy to forget that?
that WE are the ones who write the stories.
they are OUR stories.

it might never go the way you think
it was going to in this crazy ass business--
but never forget YOU are the creator of your
own stories. and YOU get to decide what
you want to do with them.

this helps me. as the passes roll in. =)
 

xiaotien

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also, there is no direct correlation
with sales and buzz and deals and
how good you are as a writer. or how
good your book is.

i know for a fact that Fury is better
than my debut--i had grown as a writer.
but the support and buzz is held for debut
authors (therefore, the request for name
changes sometimes by publishers--also
to erase your bad sales records but too steal
that excitement again that comes with being
a debut author).

now, i'm sitting on a novel on sub that
i do think is my best yet. with compliments
from all editors but no one willing to touch it
because it isn't their idea of what is HOT in
YA fantasy.
ha! does it make it a lesser novel than i thought
it was? no. not to me.
still my best yet.

i stopped getting validation for my
writing through publishing a while back.
because honestly, it was the only way
i could KEEP writing what i wanted to write
and be accepting and happy with who i
am as a writer.

as i said, ego alone keeps me going.
and i think you deserve to have some
ego lily pie. and tas! <3 be proud for
all the great books you've written and published
and all the bullshit you had to wade through
while doing it. 8)

/bootay shake!
 

JoNightshade

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Blarg. Just looking up kindergarten information. Yes, my kid is only 3, but you have think about these things way ahead of time now - you have to enroll in JANUARY for your kid starting in September! Eh? Anyways, the new date around here is that your kid has to be 5 by October. Which means my kid, whose birthday is in December, is basically going to be 6 in kindergarten. I know there are advantages to being the "older kid" in school, but dang. I honestly cannot see keeping this kid out for three more years. Ugh.
 

Calla Lily

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Jo, both my guys were 4 when they started kindergarten--the birthday cutoff in MYS is Dec. 1. They were still a bit immature emotionally, but intellectually they were ready. This carried through to college, but we--and they-are dealing with it. :e2shrug:
 

Calla Lily

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Also, my winging-it experiment with fire's lemon cake recipe is a success!

Lime-coconut Cake

1/2 Cup shortening
3/4 Cup sugar
3/4 Cup flour
1 Tsp baking powder
1/4 Cup flaked coconut
2 eggs
1/3 cup milk
Juice and grated rind of 1 lime

Spray an 8x8 cake pan with nonstick spray. Preheat oven to 350 degrees.

Mix together first 7 ingredients, plus 1/2 the grated rind and 1/3 the juice, until smooth. Pour into pan. Bake for ~25 minutes, or until toothpick inserted into center comes out clean.

For glaze, mix together:

3 Tbl sugar
The rest of the lime juice and rind

With a fork or a skewer, poke holes all over the cake. Pour glaze over warm cake, spreading out with back of spoon if necessary.
Let cool about 15 minutes. Tropical noms in midwinter!.
 

Parametric

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but i will say, editor friend said such a
fantastic thing to me when i was feeling
*really* down a few years back. she said:
never forget YOU are in control of your
own writing career.

isn't it so easy to forget that?
that WE are the ones who write the stories.
they are OUR stories.

it might never go the way you think
it was going to in this crazy ass business--
but never forget YOU are the creator of your
own stories. and YOU get to decide what
you want to do with them.

Not sure I see how a writer is in control of their own career. You have no control over trends or agents or editors or book deals. I can't sell my manuscripts, not because I decided not to publish them, but because nobody wants them - which is completely outside my control.
 

xiaotien

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para, i think she meant traditional
big six pub NOT the only way.
small press and self are options and
it's pity often looked down upon.

nothing is keeping you from
self pubbing if you want to, right?

also, pulling out of the rat race
a choice for author as well.
i know a few who have walked
away from big six contract
not liking how things were. (previous
sales in the series not to expectation
and 2nd author not agreeing with editorial vision.)
 

Amarie

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Jo, my son has a September birthday and missed the cutoff by nine days but we wouldn't have sent him anyway. I was one of the oldest in my class and he ended up being one of the oldest in his, and it's the best thing we could have done. He just went to an extra year of preschool.
 

xiaotien

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it's a matter of US thinking outside
the traditional box. which big six too
slow to do. only to their detriment.
 

Calla Lily

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Para, yes. I meant commercial pub--big 6 or a level down. Agent and I haven't yet cracked Big 6 and I. WANT. IT. MI is still considered "small". I'm not ready to self-pub yet, but I certainly might in the future. For my career right now, I'm still aiming at commercial contracts.
 

Trinza

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I'm with Para on this one. Maybe it's just because I feel like I have no control right now, though, being out on sub. I have control over my own writing, but certainly not over my own career, unfortunately.

Lily -- Gah. Lemon coconut cake sounds fantastic and it's a combo I never would have thought of! So glad it turned out well. As for the bad feelings above: I hope they pass quickly. Keep pushing ahead, I'm sure you'll get another book out there and be feeling better soon enough!

And good afternoon, everyone! I woke up feeling sick and spent the entire morning in bed reading. The Book Cure must have worked, because I feel better now and am doing an early spring cleaning thing all around the apartment.

Having conflicting feelings about the book I'm working on edits for right now, so the cleaning is a nice distraction.
 

Amarie

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*hugs* lily pie. know that many of us
are in that place. it's pretty much essential
to focus on your OWN career and what is good
for YOU and your mentality and health throughout
your own career.

but i will say, editor friend said such a
fantastic thing to me when i was feeling
*really* down a few years back. she said:
never forget YOU are in control of your
own writing career.

isn't it so easy to forget that?
that WE are the ones who write the stories.
they are OUR stories.

it might never go the way you think
it was going to in this crazy ass business--
but never forget YOU are the creator of your
own stories. and YOU get to decide what
you want to do with them.

this helps me. as the passes roll in. =)

All of this. My creativity has soared in the past year after I took some steps to put me more in control. I have enough ideas to write to keep me busy for the next five years, and some of those are going to be published one way or another.
 

JoNightshade

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Jo, both my guys were 4 when they started kindergarten--the birthday cutoff in MYS is Dec. 1. They were still a bit immature emotionally, but intellectually they were ready. This carried through to college, but we--and they-are dealing with it. :e2shrug:

Yeah, I know that's the other side of the coin, too. But at preschool he's with a group of kids who are all older than him by several months to half a year, but he's the biggest kid in school by far and seems to be on par emotionally and intellectually. They are all going to make the cutoff... and he's not. He's going to be kind of devastated if all of his friends suddenly leave to go to kindergarten and he's stuck there with the "babies" for another year.

My major worry is that I know he's inherited his father's super-scary-smart genes, and my husband's major problem throughout school was just being incredibly bored. That alone created a huge number of problems, all of which we would like to avoid. :)

And then over here I'm just like, STAY A BABY FOREVER!
 
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