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Thread: Page Publishing

  1. #26
    Reinventing Myself Scribhneoir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    Someone please talk some sense into me?
    Okay, I'll do my best.

    I do want to be a real author someday; I know this isn't the way to go about it. It's just painful having spent six years on a novel it seems that no one but vanity publishing actually wants.
    The hard truth is you may have written a stinker. If you have, chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. On the other hand, you may have written a masterpiece that just hasn't found its home yet. If you shell out $5,000 to a vanity press, you'll never know which it is. But one thing is certain -- you'll be $5,000 poorer and no nearer to your career goals.

    If you really can't bear to see this book languishing on your hard drive, self-publish it. There's a lot of good advice for self-pubbing well (and frugally) in the self-pub forum.

    But the important thing is to move forward. Have you written anything else during these past six years? If not, (and even if you have) start something new right now. Put this book away and don't look at it again until you've finished the first draft of another. That will give you a fresh perspective on its flaws and additional experience to use to fix them, if you still want to at that point.

    Remember Yog's Law: Money flows toward the writer.

    Hang in there.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    So they got back to me, said they loved my book so much that they're only asking me about $5000 to publish it (down from $20000, apparently). The contract they sent me looks all right, I suppose, but I really feel uncomfortable about making that kind of an investment, especially since they're only printing 50 books to send me and using POD otherwise. I've submitted to a LOT of places though, agents and publishers alike, and have been battered pretty badly by rejections thus far. Even seeing all the previous posts, a part of me just wants to take the deal.

    Someone please talk some sense into me? I do want to be a real author someday; I know this isn't the way to go about it. It's just painful having spent six years on a novel it seems that no one but vanity publishing actually wants.
    For $5000, would you stroke someone's ego?

    Okay, probably not, because you probably have a conscience. But pretend for a second that you don't.

    Just keep reminding yourself -- compliments from someone asking you for money mean nothing. Nothing good, nothing bad. Just nothing.

    Maybe this is the book that you have to put aside and pick up again later when you've written some new material. Maybe it's a book you choose to self-publish. Both are way better options than something it sounds like you're regretting before you even say, "yes."
    "An honest answer is like a warm hug." - Proverbs 24:26 (The Message)

    My short story collection, "The Poisoned City", is now available!

  3. #28
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    Seconded. A bizarre kind of magic happens when you let yourself fall into a brand new story: you gain perspective on the old story, its faults, and all its attendant rejections. You learn to hate it less and regard its strong points with more affection. You're not killing it forever, just setting it aside while you work on new writing muscles.

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  4. #29
    Starving College Student AuroraRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scribhneoir View Post
    The hard truth is you may have written a stinker. If you have, chalk it up to a learning experience and move on.
    Ouch. I know you're probably right though, the reason a lot of books are rejected are because they're just terrible. It's difficult getting over the feeling that mine is one of these, but it is more than possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scribhneoir View Post
    If you really can't bear to see this book languishing on your hard drive, self-publish it. There's a lot of good advice for self-pubbing well (and frugally) in the self-pub forum.
    I have already self-published it, I sold a few copies, even got some decent reviews. I was happy with that for a while, but the more I read that publishers scoffed at self-published authors, the more embarrassed I was about what I had done. I thought if it was halfway decent maybe I could use the good press it had gotten being self-published in order to get someone to actually pick it up, but that's not going great either (In hindsight, probably a terrible idea anyway). It's long, it's fantasy, I'm young, completely unpublished, and the process has consequently been soul-crushing.

    I'll try to just write a short general fiction next and pretend this never happened XD

    Thank you everyone for your input! I'm glad to hear that self-publishing is at least a step above vanity press.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    Ouch. I know you're probably right though, the reason a lot of books are rejected are because they're just terrible. It's difficult getting over the feeling that mine is one of these, but it is more than possible.
    It's also possible you wrote a decent above-average book that just didn't go far enough above average to grab an agent's attention. Those get the same form rejections as the terrible books.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    I'll try to just write a short general fiction next and pretend this never happened XD
    Write what you love. If it's fantasy, write fantasy.

    Even if nothing comes of this novel other than the small amount of positive feedback you got from self-publishing, it has been a huge learning experience for you. Not just for what you learned about the publishing industry, but for what you learned about how to craft a novel. Keep writing and keep learning.
    "An honest answer is like a warm hug." - Proverbs 24:26 (The Message)

    My short story collection, "The Poisoned City", is now available!

  6. #31
    Reinventing Myself Scribhneoir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    I have already self-published it, I sold a few copies, even got some decent reviews.
    You were querying agents for your already-published book? That's another reason for rejections.

    It's long, it's fantasy, I'm young, completely unpublished, and the process has consequently been soul-crushing.
    Writing is a tough business, but it doesn't have to be soul-crushing. It's only your book being rejected, not you. Hard to believe sometimes, I know, but important to remember.

  7. #32
    practical experience, FTW
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    It might be better to move this discussion to another part of the forums, but until then:

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    I have already self-published it, I sold a few copies, even got some decent reviews. I was happy with that for a while, but the more I read that publishers scoffed at self-published authors, the more embarrassed I was about what I had done. I thought if it was halfway decent maybe I could use the good press it had gotten being self-published in order to get someone to actually pick it up, but that's not going great either (In hindsight, probably a terrible idea anyway). It's long, it's fantasy, I'm young, completely unpublished, and the process has consequently been soul-crushing.
    I think you need to determine what your goal is with this novel. As others have said, six years is not that long in publishing time, and many people spend more than six years on a book.

    I don't think publishers "scoff" at self-publisher authors, though they might be more hesitant to take on a self-published novel that only got "halfway decent" sales.

    But there is a trend for some publishers to look at self-published novels now (not a lot, but some), as long as you still control all the rights (minus first rights, of course).

    We also have a self-publishing section here. Many people there spend far less than $5k to publish their books, and some are doing very well. If you're willing to spend $5k on a vanity press, which most people here agree will not help your book much, if at all, then why not try to "better" self-publish your novel?

    But again, all this will depend on what you want to ultimately achieve with your novel.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    I'll try to just write a short general fiction next and pretend this never happened XD
    All novels are a hard sale. General fiction is no different. Write what you want to write.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    Ouch. I know you're probably right though, the reason a lot of books are rejected are because they're just terrible. It's difficult getting over the feeling that mine is one of these, but it is more than possible.
    I saved this for last because it really is the hardest thing to hear. Did you have beta readers look at your book (beta readers who are not family or friends or anyone else who would spare your feelings )?

    You can also take a look around Share Your Work. You can't post until you have 50 post, but you can read around and critique others work. You'd be surprised how often the mistakes pop up, and you can learn to see a lot of problems in your own work by finding them in other people's first.

    Also, depending on when in the process you got rejected, you might have been rejected on your query, meaning no one actually read your novel. Have you checked out Query Letter Hell, or Queryshark, or any other query source?

    Are you also sure you researched all the agents and publishers you submitted to make sure your novel was appropriate for them?

    ***

    But no matter what, I agree with the others, you need to start another project. Sometimes we get too focused on one book and we never move on.

    Anyway, take heart, there are members here who have gotten hundreds of rejects before they finally got their publishing contracts.

    Good luck.

  8. #33
    Starving College Student AuroraRose's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the support. I wish I had been on this site from the beginning, so I could have been a little more informed during my publishing journey. I'll be sure to ask more questions elsewhere about this, so this doesn't get more off topic

    I was using P&E: Book Publisher Listings to find potential publishers, after almost being duped into a contract with ParaDon, if you can believe it. Page Publishing is listed there just as a regular publisher, instead of a vanity press. (http://pred-ed.com/pebp.htm) It'd be nice to get that changed, so no one else falls into the trap like I did.
    Last edited by AuroraRose; 12-28-2012 at 05:35 AM.

  9. #34
    jlw OhTheHorror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    I have already self-published it, I sold a few copies, even got some decent reviews.
    Like others have said, which may be why agents and publishers are rejecting your book. First print rights are lost. I've known self-publishers who've had their books picked up by publishers (for example, the White Flag of the Dead series by Joseph Talluto was self-published and later picked up by Severed Press), but they already had a rather large fanbase and solid sales behind them. It just made good business sense for the publisher to work a deal.

    I think you need to move on to a new project, IMO. I know it's hard to let go of something you've spend years writing (I've been there. ), but it's necessary if you wish to move forward as a writer. The fact of the matter is that the first attempt at writing a book is usually very flawed. The more you write the better you become. I'm not saying your book is flawed. I don't know. But generally speaking that's usually the case. I know it was for me. My first novel was a real stinker, but I learned from it and moved on to the next slightly less stinky project. And so it goes, on and on ....

    I do know this much: Paying Sarah Publishing 5,000 big ones to publish your book, will do nothing but put you out 5,000 big ones.
    Current WIPs
    Horror Novel: 20,000 of 90,000 words.
    Various weird short stories.


  10. #35
    Starving College Student AuroraRose's Avatar
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    I know, I'm more than ready to give up on my first book, at this point. It's hard to think about it without wanting to be sick. I'll try to figure out something better to work on

  11. #36
    I find ur lack of faith disturbing mellymel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    I know, I'm more than ready to give up on my first book, at this point. It's hard to think about it without wanting to be sick. I'll try to figure out something better to work on
    First of all, big fat major ((((((HUGS))))) As for feeling sick about putting your book aside (or trunking it as you may one day realize is what you need to do) I totally know how you feel. Felt the same exact way when I started writing about 5 years ago. Wrote my first novel, researched how to write query letters and synopsis with whatever sites were available on the internet at the time, and began to query my first 140K YA paranormal romance novel. Oy. So little did I know. Too long. Too many adverbs. Full of cliches. Characters with not enough depth. The dreaded instalove. I pretty much had every no no in the book in that book. *snort*

    Seriously, after querying a small bit and getting only form rejections, I found AW, posted a sample of my work and was torn to pieces (not me, my work ). It hurt. I clicked off the site and cried my arse off. But then I came back. I was hungry to learn and I wanted to find success. The more I hung around here (especially in the Share Your Work (SYW) thread, the more I learned about writing and how not so amazing my story/writing was). Well, I've come a long way since then, have learned so much about writing and the industry and I've trunked two novels (my first one is ETERNALLY trunked--omg it was sooooooo bad!). But I swear to you, as much as it hurts, it will hurt more to lose FIVE GRAND to some loser wannabe claiming-to-be publisher (I did a ton of research on them and there is NOTHING impressive (or even good) about them that I could find).

    Stick around. Don't give up. Just remember that they only way to not find success in this business is to quit writing. And as my siggy says, "Falling on your face is still moving forward".

    PLEASE FOR GOODNESS SAKE DO NOT GIVE THESE PEOPLE EVEN ONE DAMN PENNY OF YOUR MONEY!!!!!!!
    "The good thing about telling the truth is that there's nothing to remember."--John Ford Noonan (playwright)
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  12. #37
    jlw OhTheHorror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    I know, I'm more than ready to give up on my first book, at this point.
    Good on ya, doll!

    Now, as Uncle Jim would say, go write a new and better book.

    Quote Originally Posted by mellymel View Post
    The dreaded instalove.
    I did that too. My first book was a weird mash up of romance and splatterpunk. Oh, lordy me ... stunk so bad it could have given my British Bulldog's farts a run for their money.
    Current WIPs
    Horror Novel: 20,000 of 90,000 words.
    Various weird short stories.


  13. #38
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post

    I was using P&E: Book Publisher Listings to find potential publishers, after almost being duped into a contract with ParaDon, if you can believe it.
    I'm so glad you didn't fall into ParaDon's trap!

  14. #39
    writing, working, weeping, winning ohthatmomagain's Avatar
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    It'll be okay ((((HUGS)))) Publishing is a hard business. We (most of us) take things way to hard. I know I do sometimes. A rejection doesn't mean you are a horrible person. It means your book isn't what they are looking for. I was on querytracker the other day and a lady got a rejection on a full. The agent said she saw not one thing wrong with the book, but she didn't connect to it so it was a pass. See, sometimes even the best books get rejected because the agent doesn't feel they are right for it.

    Head up Put this book away and let it sit. If in a few months you feel like self-publishing it again, go for it. If not, take it out and smile every once in a while. No matter what, be working on your next book. Write something you love and it will show up on the page. Will all agents like it? No. Will one agent like it? Who knows. But it'll be something you're proud of.

    And please don't get so down that you go to a vanity publisher. It's really not worth it. Honestly, if you think querying/rejections are hard, wait until you start looking at your Amazon sales rank It's a sickness lol

    BIG HUGS and thanks for asking about Page Publishing and bringing it to others attention. You did the right thing
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  15. #40
    Romance with Kick-Assitude! Cassie Knight's Avatar
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    AuroraRose, please don't give up and give up your money. I'd be echoing what others said but would like to offer you something more if you wish. I'm the Senior Editor at Champagne Book Group (as well as a published author with Samhain, Lyrical and Champagne) and I would love to take a look at your story and offer you some feedback. Burning first rights is a concern but not a solid barrier to publication.

    You do have other options and paying someone to publish you, while an option, isn't the best at all.

    This is a legitimate offer. If you are interested, feel free to email me at cassie@champagnebooks.com and we can chat. And by all means, check us out here and our site: http://www.champagnebooks.com.

    Whatever you decide to do, best of luck and don't give up!
    Cassiel Knight
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  16. #41
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    AuroraRose: First off, I'm sorry for the disappointment you must be feeling right now. It sucks to think that you've got something good going (a potential publishing contract) and find out it's a stinker. Good on you for acting on your gut feelings and finding out more before you signed on the dotted line.

    Second, consider dropping P&E a line about Page Publishing. If they are listed in the wrong category I'm sure that Dave would like to know so that he can fix it.

    Good luck!
    Eggplant Literary Productions,
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  17. #42
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    P&E has been alerted, but I'm sure Dave would like to hear from you directly, AuroraRose.

    Listen to Cassie, and to everyone else. This can be a monumentally frustrating business, but seeing the bigger picture can help you. I never once considered a vanity/subsidy press, but I was taken in by similar scams in the art industry before I learned better.

    This M/M space opera
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  18. #43
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuroraRose View Post
    S

    Someone please talk some sense into me? I do want to be a real author someday; I know this isn't the way to go about it.
    Go with your gut. You know this isn't the way because it isn't.

    It's just painful having spent six years on a novel it seems that no one but vanity publishing actually wants.
    The vanity press doesn't want it either. They just want your money. You could send them 130,000 random words in random order and they'd publish it, if the check cleared. Being accepted by a vanity press doesn't mean your book is bad. It doesn't mean your book is good. All it means is you sent them money.

    My first novel is in a box under my desk. Nicholas Sparks' first novel is in his attic, right beside his second novel.

    The advice you've heard is correct: Write a new, different, better book. Then another, then another.

    (BTW, if you want to join me up at Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, there's lots of room for you.)

  19. #44
    Starving College Student AuroraRose's Avatar
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    I do need to start writing something new. I think it may take me a little while to get over my post-rejection depression and start something, but the show much go on. I'm glad I'll have resources now to help me along the way. Everyone's so helpful!

    Unfortunately though, I do hate confrontation. This might be the wrong business for that state of mind, but I'll get there. Is it all right if I twiddle my thumbs until Page Publishing calls me about their contract to turn them down? Or should I call them up myself? I'm sure it's not like I'm breaking their hearts by saying no.

  20. #45
    The King and Queen of Cheese BenPanced's Avatar
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    Call them up and tell them the truth: you've done some research and you're taking a pass. Period. Don't be afraid to tell them "no". You don't owe them any explanations beyond that.
    I still poop rainbows.

    I won't steal any of your ideas. I have enough of my own I'm not using.


  21. #46
    Writer Beware's Faithful Igor Richard White's Avatar
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    Then again, why call them? Send them an e-mail, state your case clearly, make it clear you won't be changing your mind and hit send.

    Then, don't accept any more phone calls from them.

    Same thing works with telephone solicitors.

  22. #47
    I find ur lack of faith disturbing mellymel's Avatar
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    Yes, I say email them. And feel free to add a link in your email to this thread.
    "The good thing about telling the truth is that there's nothing to remember."--John Ford Noonan (playwright)
    "Falling on your face is still moving forward."--Ron Maranian (comedian)


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  23. #48
    Ditto the e-mail thing. State clearly that you are turning down the offer and are not interested in further contact from them. Delete any future e-mails from them without reading.

    The last thing you want right now is to talk to a salesperson one-on-one.
    "An honest answer is like a warm hug." - Proverbs 24:26 (The Message)

    My short story collection, "The Poisoned City", is now available!

  24. #49
    Red fish, blue fish... J.S.F.'s Avatar
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    AuroraRose,

    You've gotten a lot of really good advice from everyone and I'll just add my two yen to it all. When I wrote my first novel a couple of years back, in its original form it sucked. Totally. The idea was good; the execution was not. My sister--who would NOT be considered a beta reader--looked at it and asked "Where's all the dialogue? What's with all the description? Why should I care?"

    Talk about a trashing! But I deserved it and redid it in about a week. Then I sent her a chapter I redid and she loved it. Now, having a family member read your work is probably not the best idea but considering her first appraisal of my work was less than stellar--and to be honest, it stunk up the joint--I'd put her in the 'beta' category. While this view is totally subjective, I consider my sister my harshest critic and believe me, if she doesn't like something, no matter who writes it, she'll let them know about it!

    Okay, so I finished the novel, she read it, liked it (although she criticized certain sections) and I sent it off to a vanity publisher because I didn't know any better. Again, I was lucky, as my sister knew about these people and said "why would you pay them to do this for you?"

    I asked myself the same question, and then sent it off to an e-book company which accepted it. Sure, I wanted to get published--as a writer, who doesn't--but if it's good enough then someone will want it. And that's the mindset you should cultivate. Vanity publishers don't care about your book in spite of what they say. They want your cash--period.

    In the interim, I've written some other novels, and when I read two of them they so totally bit I took great pleasure in erasing them word by word until I had nothing left. Sometimes you have to accept the fact that what you've written may not be good enough--or even good. It hurt when I got rejected--still does--but it makes me think of why the novel is bad or not good enough in certain areas and makes me think of how to do it better.

    In closing--and sorry for the long post--I can only wish you the best of luck. Keep at it. It sometimes takes years to find your voice and sometimes longer. With some people, they never find it, and others find it after a few months. Keep writing, experimenting, and above all, thinking. Step back not as a writer after you've finished but as a reader and yes, get someone who's critical and who will savage it. It's not nice and it cuts deep, but better sooner than later.

    All the best.

  25. #50
    Girl Detective Stacia Kane's Avatar
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    Aurora, don't forget that once you've interacted here enough to have 50 posts you can put up an excerpt for critique in Share Your Work.
    http://www.staciakane.com

    FIVE DOWN, a Downside anthology, available now!
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    Click here for more details.


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