• Basic Writing questions is not a crit forum. All crits belong in Share Your Work

Can a story with a limited point of view ever describe something the character cannot see?

Status
Not open for further replies.

LearningTwoWrite

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
264
Reaction score
8
For example, say a guy falls of a cliff face first. Can the author say everyone was looking over the cliff, maybe someone has their hand on their mouth, others are pointing, etc.

But the MC can't see it. I guess you could have him tumble and perhaps he could see, but the question is still almost the same.

Thanks for helping.
 

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
8,745
Reaction score
3,096
Location
Toronto, Canada
Website
www.adriennekress.com
Not really. You could say "He heard shrieks, and one woman call out "Oh my god". God had nothing to do with it, lady, he thought . . ." (don't know why I went all film noir on you there)

But no, if it's a limited POV then it's limited. The only time I could see it working is if you were writing something unconventional, playing with literary form etc. But it seems like you are writing a straightforward story. So again. I'd say no.
 

amschilling

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
151
Location
In my head.
Website
www.amschilling.com
Nope. Not if it's a single narrator, limited POV. Unless he's, like, psychic and can see it via telepathy or something.

Jumping out of his head so you can show something he can't possibly see will jerk your readers out of the story. With limited, you have to find a creative way around it (like toothpaste's example. I personally like the noir, lol).
 

OhTheHorror

jlw
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
232
Reaction score
16
Location
The Land Downunder
Not really. You could say "He heard shrieks, and one woman call out "Oh my god". God had nothing to do with it, lady, he thought . . ." (don't know why I went all film noir on you there)

But no, if it's a limited POV then it's limited. The only time I could see it working is if you were writing something unconventional, playing with literary form etc. But it seems like you are writing a straightforward story. So again. I'd say no.

^^^ This.
 

Kerosene

Your Pixie Queen
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
5,762
Reaction score
1,045
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
What others said, but hell, you can break POV however you wish. The reader isn't watching everything from within the narrator, but around him; they won't care so much.

I'd try to make the scene better, show the crowd before he falls, then the shrieks and such. But their individual reactions are a bit much.

You can also make it hypothetical, linked with the narrator's thoughts of what the crowd was doing.

Or you can just do a intrusion of omni, switching off to another narrator after he falls. But research omni transition and read books that work with omni to nail this down.

Did Will just break rules that other people were strict about? Yep...
 

quicklime

all out of fucks to give
Banned
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
8,967
Reaction score
2,074
Location
wisconsin
a side argument: assuming the pov is "dude falling from rock" I doubt he's noticing shrieks, gasps, hands held to mouths, bulging eyes, etc....he's got his own problems. It would be sort of like having the spy thriller "kitchen chase" scene and mentioning the MC noting the smell of shallots (really, guys are shooting at him, and he's ruminating on shallots?). So, other than that you want to do it, what does your story gain from a head-hop?
 

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,158
Location
The right earlobe of North America
quicklime pretty much nailed it. That was my first reaction, too. I can't see what you gain for the story in describing stuff that must be implicitly obvious in such a situation, and from the character's viewpoint, I guarantee he ain't thinking about the reactions of spectators.

Rule of thumb: If it takes longer for a reader to read the description of sudden scary action than it takes for the action to take place, chances are the action is overdescribed.

caw
 
Last edited:

Sydneyd

Aye, ye scurvy dog!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
6,565
Reaction score
2,237
Location
Portland
I'd also like to add, apart from agreeing with most everyone, that in picking your POV it is important to think about the events that are crucial in your story and how best to convey them. If it is crucial that we see an overall reaction to this man falling, you may want to consider dual or switching.
 

onesecondglance

pretending to be awake
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
5,359
Reaction score
1,661
Location
Berkshire, UK
Website
soundcloud.com
Agree with what quicklime and blacbird said, but also I don't have a problem with Will's suggestion of changing perspective. "Zooming out" as it were. Things like the narrative viewpoint staying put after a character leaves a room, that sort of thing. That doesn't bother me.
 

LearningTwoWrite

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
264
Reaction score
8
I was reading this page:

http://www.fiction-writers-mentor.com/3rd-person-point-of-view.html

and it says at the bottom:

The advantages of third person limited point of view include:
It’s nearly as immediate and intimate as first person, without the constraint of only being able to relate what the first person narrator sees/experiences. You can describe events even when your view-point character isn't present.

In my OP, am I asking about 3rd person limited? I thought I was but maybe I don't understand.
 

quicklime

all out of fucks to give
Banned
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
8,967
Reaction score
2,074
Location
wisconsin
they are talking about the ability to shift to another POV following a scene break....


Alan fell.

##

Rachel was just getting ready to take a photo of the canyon when she heard a scream.


that sort fo thing...but again, I see no real advantage or gain in your scene; it sounds like something that would (should) get the editing knife anyway, from what I've heard so far.
 

Buffysquirrel

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
6,137
Reaction score
694
Having followed the link, I'd say find a better resource.
 

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,158
Location
The right earlobe of North America
Agree with what quicklime and blacbird said, but also I don't have a problem with Will's suggestion of changing perspective. "Zooming out" as it were. Things like the narrative viewpoint staying put after a character leaves a room, that sort of thing. That doesn't bother me.

If you do that, you're not using a 3rd limited viewpoint. You're in omniscient. Simple as that.

caw
 

LearningTwoWrite

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
264
Reaction score
8
I'm trying to figure out my pov. I don't know what it is. I have it so there is one character per section, book, etc. I haven't decided for sure yet. I don't know how I can limit it to one character. Anyway, I have the scene and it is obviously limited to one character, but then I have stuff in there (it's a fantasy) that is "lore."

The MC might see people laughing at him or have some inability. Then the narrator will say, "never such a thing has ever been passed down in any ancient writings..." that's not the MC. That's the narrator pointing something out for supposed depth.

I don't know what you call that.
 

LearningTwoWrite

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Messages
264
Reaction score
8
Just "regular" omniscient? Even if I keep it on one character? Maybe it's all a messed up pov?

edit: I think I'm getting myself in a mess. I found one of my old threads saying that omni was a very hard thing for beginners. Now I have to rethink everything.
 
Last edited:

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
16,768
Reaction score
4,663
Location
Scotland
.
=LearningTwoWrite;7799511]Just "regular" omniscient? Even if I keep it on one character? Maybe it's all a messed up pov?


What are you talking about?

Writing in Omniscient is using the single POV of an omniscient all-seeing and all-knowing narrator who knows everything about everybody and what everyone is thinking about everything else and who can explain as much as he wants to at any time, and (if he chooses) focus in and out on different characters to let us know their perspectives on what's happening as the story unfolds.

Omni is difficult because the temptation is to rabbit on about every single thing about what everybody is doing and thinking about everybody else instead of focussing on the story and what's relevant to the story.

OR

You use Third person Limited and write the story from the POV of
one or more characters but simply limited to one at any given time, be it per scene, per chapter or whatever. That's all the 'limited' means.

The narrator in Third person Limited is obviously you - the writer- but in order to maintain the illusion that the events are being experienced by the reader through the senses of the POV character, you try and keep your narrator presence as low as possible. That means not constantly making the type of explanatory comments you mentioned earlier - let the reader find these things out through the characters' actions and interactions with other characters.
That doesn't mean you can't make an explanatory comment, but it can be distracting if it becomes a habit.


edit: I think I'm getting myself in a mess. I found one of my old threads saying that omni was a very hard thing for beginners. Now I have to rethink everything. You are covering the same ground you were covering months ago. :Hug2:
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.