A Question Regarding Prologues

Pikabuddy said:

So, reading all the comments here (correct me if I'm wrong), I should definitely be labeling this as Chapter one so that is assured agents will read it?

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No. A prologue is not Chapter One. It is a prologue. If it works as Chapter One, it is not a prologue. And if an agent is one of those people who automatically skips a prologue simply because it's labeled correctly, or can't tell the difference between a first chapter and a prologue, they probably aren't going to do the rest of your story justice either.

Beth Raymond said:

Roxxsmom: I think I would find it odd only to see date tags for the first two chapters, and then no where else. Perhaps you could weave in the date in the prose, i.e., "The 998th Year of the Zeryan Reckoning started as any other . . . ," or something like that?

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I was wondering the same thing re the tags on chapters, as books that use them tend to have them on every chapter. But tagging every chapter adds a lot of words to the MS, and usually, the information is not needed. Maybe it's just one of those issues for me to wrangle with an editor or agent, as it would hopefully not be a deal breaker as far as taking on a ms.

The narrative "voice over" telling the year and location would work for an omniscient narrative, I think, but I don't think I could make it work in a third limited/deep point of view (which is what my novel is written in). I don't know what pov the OP's novel is in, so maybe it would work if his is in omniscient.

I do get out at the beginning of chapter 2 that he's just arrived in a foreign city and that he's regretting the thing he did 2 years before that led to his being there "now" in the story. This approach can work in limited third as long as it doesn't seem "forced."

When deciding whether to label something as a prologue or chapter 1, I'd err on the side of calling it chapter 1. If an agent or editor likes the MS thinks it should be called a prologue instead, well, that will be only one of many changes that will be made before the book is published--and most likely one of the smallest and simplest.

People skip prologues in fiction? I only do that when reading boring text books

Whose POV is being used in these parts? If it's the same, simply making it clear that the character is in a very different situation can establish the time jump, while still maintaining continuity. (Example: In chapter one, Bob is a young soldier in the aftermath of the battle that deposes the king; in Chapter 2, that same Bob is a middle-aged innkeeper with a wife and kids.)

I haven't heard of agents skipping prologues. I have heard of them asking people not to send prologues, but to send the first chapter(s).

zanzjan said:

I don't skip prologues, but if I get any significant distance into the book and still have no clue why the prologue is significant or even related to the rest of the story, it'll tick me off enough that I'll eventually walk away from the whole thing. So my one piece of emphasized advice is: no artsy prologues where you think it's clever for it not to make any sense at all to the reader until the last few pages.

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+1

I read them but the majority of the time I find they weren't 'necessary' for my 'understanding' of the book. I just found them tedious and glad they were over. If they are lucky, I wasn't insulted that the author felt the need to spoon feed me in case I don't 'get it'.

The rare prologue has slipped by me on occasion that I found good and needed to be a prologue. It doesn't happen often. More likely, I get introduced to some characters, think these are characters that are important to the story only to find out they are not mentioned again until far later in the book or even never again. Or there's a whole assload of world building the author couldn't fit in anywhere else. Or there was a flashback that was just CRITICAL to understanding...exactly nothing.

Those irritate me and make me side-eye the author. The book had better be damn good if I'm going to pick up another one by that writer.

zanzjan said:

Otherwise, just worry about making it the best book it can be.

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Yep.

Honestly? Such a small percentage of people skip prologues. Some are very vocal about it, so it seems like a lot more are skipping. In truth, in my 30+ years of reading and writing and in all of my time on the internet, I'd never run into prologue-skippers until I came to this website a year ago. Are you writing for those 1%? Or, are you writing for the rest of us?

Embrace your inner Captain Kirk. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the (noisy) few. Keep it in. If you think the term "prologue" will turn an agent off, then give the chapter a title instead.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The demographics for this board are not indicative for the general population, imho.

If you took out every little thing some small group of readers found unnecessary to the story, you wouldn't have much of a story left.

Prologues? Out.
Authorial attempts at witty banter? Out.
Excruciating detail in description of dress or scenery? Out.
Romance sub-plots? Out.
Flashbacks? Out.
Dreams? Out.
Physical descriptions of characters? Out.
Training montages? Out.
Travel descriptions? Out.
Plot coupons? Out.
Character development? Out.
Slow scenes? Out.
Descriptions of battles? Out.
Supporting characters? Out.
World-building? Out.
Themes? Out.
Epilogues? Out.


What does that leave us? An outline. Sounds exciting, doesn't it?

No, no, we prologue-skippers may be only 1%, but we're the most important 1%!

Eh. Ignore us just like we ignore the prologues . It's deserved.

I read prologues. I start a story at the beginning and read through it to the end. I assume the prologue is there at the beginning for a reason, or it wouldn't be there. I assume that if it's simply background information about the world or its history that "might be nice to know but not really needed," it would simply be placed in an appendix. If the prologue is interesting and well written and hooks me into the story, I keep reading. If I liked it well enough to finish it, I'll read the epilogue as well.

If the prologue bores me or has all this strange, panoramic, "zero point of view" omniscient narrative, or reads like a history lesson, or is something I can't follow, or includes characters I don't really care about in the first place and who are clearly just there to be killed off in order to illustrate some "ancient evil" or nefarious plot at work--ugh. I usually stop reading the book unless it's been highly recommended, is by an author I trust, or is a sequel to a book I already really like. I don't assume it will become a proper story once the "meat" of the novel starts. I assume an author would write his or her prologue in the same style as his or her novel. If the prologue is a birth scene and it features a much-longed-for son (or daughter) who has special powers and is ripped from his or her grieving mother's arms by some priest/priestess or wise old sorcerer, my cliche alert goes off. Whether I continue to read will depend on how well and convincingly the scene is written.

One can't help but wonder why publishers allow these horrible, unnecessary, and boring prologues to remain in books. Somebody is obviously dropping the ball in the editing department.

Pikabuddy said:

Thanks for all of the advice, guys




I laughed at this.

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So did I. But Liosse left out those "annoying" side plots and support characters too.

I read in a blog somewhere that stripped down flash novels were going to be all the rage soon, and the blogger in question was rhapsodizing about how modern readers are just too busy for all those irrelevant details that clutter up stories (he said most novels could be boiled down to no more than 20,000 words without losing anything important).

I thought those already existed and they were called "Cliff Notes."

I've always looked at a prologue as the bait to lure me into a book. I wrote a four-page prologue, sent it to an agent, and got an immediate request for the manuscript. Prologues can be wonderful. I don't know why they have a bad reputation.

Pikabuddy said:

It functions just like Chapter One of any novel.

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So what makes you need to call it a Prologue instead of Chapter One?

caw

zanzjan said:

Think of all the elements of your book like a grand buffet. Even if everything on it is exquisite, there's gonna be people who skip the appetizers, or hate the sweet potatoes and load up on the fries, or who pitch a fit about the shrimp being too tiny or think the soup is too salty or the salad insufficiently lettucized.

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Too true. Any long descriptions of food or clothes and my eyes glaze over. Imagine me reading (skipping) Homer.

Roxxsmom said:

The narrative "voice over" telling the year and location would work for an omniscient narrative, I think, but I don't think I could make it work in a third limited/deep point of view (which is what my novel is written in).

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Good point. I would agree with you here.

Pikabuddy said:

Because there's a ten year time gap between prologue and Chapter One, and I thought that it would be too jarring to have a time gap that large between One and Two.

And here's something else - all of the characters in the prologue are main characters. Actually, there's three - the MC, her mother, and the villain. Obviously the MC and the villain are important, and the MC's mother cements the connection between the two.

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I still see no problem with the time skip between chapters.

And the characters just give more of a reason to keep it as chapter 1.

Just don't put in a prologue and call it chapter 1. Period.