What am I doing wrong?

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Arpeggio

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Doesn't the Google Keyword Tool just relate to Google AdWords ads?

I wasn't aware of the BingWebmaster Tool. I am checking out now. Thank you.

My site traffic has come from a variety of sources, including Twitter, Facebook, Google Adwords Ad, email blasts, and banner advertising. I try to do something almost daily to keep the traffic up. But, as I said, very little of this traffic results in sales.

Thanks for the info I've thought about those myself. I think the Adwords tool and organic keywords are one in the same knowing that the same queries apply to get either in searches.

You've got more traffic than me! I'm on page 2 and sometimes 1 of Google for some long tail keywords with about 3000 searches per month, but I heard a saying that "page 2 of google is a good place to hide a dead body". Early days yet I suppose. Most of my sales are on Amazon despite my other efforts, no matter how hard I try I can't compete with the frame of mind people are in on Amazon (to buy something!).

If you haven't approached bloggers and the like to ask for reviews then I'd say that should be your next thing to do.
 

mforge

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You've got more traffic than me! I'm on page 2 and sometimes 1 of Google for some long tail keywords with about 3000 searches per month, but I heard a saying that "page 2 of google is a good place to hide a dead body". Early days yet I suppose. Most of my sales are on Amazon despite my other efforts, no matter how hard I try I can't compete with the frame of mind people are in on Amazon (to buy something!).

If you haven't approached bloggers and the like to ask for reviews then I'd say that should be your next thing to do.

Great observation about people on Amazon being in a buying mindset. I never thought about that before.

I have to say, the advertising I ran (banners and Google Adwords) brought a good deal of traffic to my site, but very few sales. Adwords in particular seemed to draw in a very broad and off target range of people (I still have a lot to learn about SEO and keywords though, so if you're more adept there, you might have better results). So, aside from the emotional lift of seeing my site traffic shoot up, I'd have to say it was not worth the investment.

I was very keen on sending copies to relevant bloggers to review, but didn't have much success determining who those bloggers are. Any recommendations?
 

Arpeggio

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Great observation about people on Amazon being in a buying mindset. I never thought about that before.

I have to say, the advertising I ran (banners and Google Adwords) brought a good deal of traffic to my site, but very few sales. Adwords in particular seemed to draw in a very broad and off target range of people (I still have a lot to learn about SEO and keywords though, so if you're more adept there, you might have better results). So, aside from the emotional lift of seeing my site traffic shoot up, I'd have to say it was not worth the investment.

I was very keen on sending copies to relevant bloggers to review, but didn't have much success determining who those bloggers are. Any recommendations?

I had a couple of Banner ads up but couldn't attribute one sale to either. I tried Bing adwords but that was fairly pointless.

I think PayPerClick (at least nowadays) is geared towards being benificial to people who offer PPC, not so much the advertisers.

Online Motorbike and Moped retailer making £500< profit per sale would need 1 sale to pay for 5000 clicks at 10p each. That's a conversion rate of 0.02%

Book seller making say £3 per sale would need a massive conversion rate of 3.34% for 5000 clicks at 10p each. I think CPC just isn't for low ticket items.


There are general blogs out there, my rule when looking for links / reviews / articles (when the other person doesn't have financial incentive) is if I'm sure something is not worth going for I won't ask. If I'm not sure if it's worth it I will ask (so not just if I am sure it's worth it). As you have a low inventory I would recommend this and everything else that costs little / nothing that other wise might be further down the "to do" list.
 
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DanteExplorer

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Great thread. I have similar situation, steady daily web traffic of around 200 new views daily. Yet sales are negligible. I also have the top second and third listings in google for the search "Introduction to Dante" (obviously a niche market). But I know for myself I'm usually more compelled to make book purchases while I'm already on Amazon rather than on another site. Particularly the "Customers who bought this item also bought" link. It makes sense to me to publish more and utilize the Amazon marketing behemoth rather than rely on outside referrals.
 

L.W.Patricks

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Just started yesterday

My book just launched on Amazon yesterday so I'm taking quite a lot of interest in this thread.

I've been doing a lot of research and the keys to sales success are:

Have a good cover
Have the book reviewed
Stay active with your target audience
Publish another book

Once again, I'm just starting out so I can't base sales of anything, but if something works out, I'll let you know =)
 

Old Hack

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My book just launched on Amazon yesterday so I'm taking quite a lot of interest in this thread.

I've been doing a lot of research and the keys to sales success are:

Have a good cover
Have the book reviewed
Stay active with your target audience
Publish another book

You've missed the most important item off your list:

Write a really good book

That's the point that most self publishers fail on, closely followed by

Have your book professionally edited


I see far too much attention paid to getting a good cover and so on, and not nearly enough attention paid to writing the best book you can, and revising and editing it appropriately. I really wish people wouldn't overlook this, as a lack of quality is the core reason for many self publishers' lack of sales.
 

mforge

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You've missed the most important item off your list:

Write a really good book

I wish that were more true than it is. In reality, books are no different than any other art: movies, music, television, etc., and "good" often has little to do with commercial success. How many #1 movies and tv shows are absolute dreck? How many popular books have you picked up only to give up on less than half way in because they were just plain terrible?

Having spent most of my career in advertising, I can assure you that people buy what they think they want or need, not necessarily what is truly worth wanting or needing.

I have no doubt my book is good (although it may not appeal to the particular tastes of many on this board or elsewhere). It is intelligent, well-written, original, and illustrated by a gifted artist. But I have already accepted that it may well never become a mainstream success.

On the other hand, it could be half as good as it is and I guarantee if Oprah held it up for 20 seconds on her show, we would sell out the entire first print run in a day.
 

Old Hack

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It says a lot about your attitude to your readership that you think it's more important to get a good cover than to write a good book.

Of course, much depends on how you define "good" in this instance. I include "commercially viable" in my definition because why publish books which don't have a potential readership? There would be no one to buy them, so publishing them would be futile.

And while I agree that a book that Oprah endorses is almost certainly going to sell in huge quantity, you should look at this from the other end: if your book isn't good, what are the chances of getting Oprah to endorse it?
 

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Also most of us are looking for a longer term income. If the book is not good (a.k.a. enjoyable, worth what they paid for it), will they buy your next one?
 

merrihiatt

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Also most of us are looking for a longer term income. If the book is not good (a.k.a. enjoyable, worth what they paid for it), will they buy your next one?

Exactly! My goal isn't to sell one book, it's to build an audience of people who like my writing style and want to read all the books I write.
 

mforge

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It says a lot about your attitude to your readership that you think it's more important to get a good cover than to write a good book.

Of course, much depends on how you define "good" in this instance. I include "commercially viable" in my definition because why publish books which don't have a potential readership? There would be no one to buy them, so publishing them would be futile.

And while I agree that a book that Oprah endorses is almost certainly going to sell in huge quantity, you should look at this from the other end: if your book isn't good, what are the chances of getting Oprah to endorse it?

Come on, don't malign my attitude based on someone else's comment. I didn't say a word about a good cover. And is it really fair to judge that person's attitude because of one comment either?

I'm just contesting your assertion that a book being good is the "most important" factor in it's success. It is a factor, to be sure, and one I would hope every author strives for above all others. But plenty of mediocre books have been huge successes. And plenty of amazing books (films, music, plays, etc.) have been complete failures from a sales perspective.

Of course most people would not publish a book without a potential readership. But a book could be very good and still never find an audience due to a myriad of factors.
 
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Come on, don't malign my attitude based on someone else's comment. I didn't say a word about a good cover. And is it really fair to judge that person's attitude because of one comment either?

I'm just contesting your assertion that a book being good is the "most important" factor in it's success. It is a factor, to be sure, and one I would hope every author strives for above all others. But plenty of mediocre books have been huge successes. And plenty of amazing books (films, music, plays, etc.) have been complete failures from a sales perspective.

Of course most people would not publish a book without a potential readership. But a book could be very good and still never find an audience due to a myriad of factors.

Well said.

I know I've posted my experiences before, but...

I've published through reputable e-publishers, self-published in the same genre, and self-published in a different genre. I've worked equally hard on my books in all three areas, had everything professionally edited (either through my publishers or via my own money), and, reading back over it all, I see no difference in the quality of work in any of the three areas. Reviews have been solid in all three.

And my books through reputable e-publishers have outsold my books through self-publishing. My self-published work in the same genre is selling steadily but not at the same level (I'm hoping that higher royalty rates will take care of the difference, but I'm not sure if it will). My self-published work in a different genre has sold miserably.

It's not a case of "if you build it, they will come." It's not just a question of putting out a good quality product. The market is SWAMPED, and without help from a publisher, it is really, really hard to make your book poke up out of the mire.

I'm not saying there haven't been self-publishing successes in the past, and I'm not saying I don't plan to continue exploring all options available to me. But there's a lot more to self-publishing success than 'write a good book and have it professionally edited'. A lot more.
 

Old Hack

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Come on, don't malign my attitude based on someone else's comment. I didn't say a word about a good cover. And is it really fair to judge that person's attitude because of one comment either?

mforge, I'm so sorry: I confused you with the person who posted that list. I'll leave my post standing, as deleting it will screw up the thread, but please accept my apologies for coming down on you so harshly over that point.

As for whether it was fair of me or not to judge that person's attitude as I did: yes, I think it was. I see a lot of people focus on marketing and selling their work without considering whether it's good enough in the first place. It is a huge problem for self publishing because the vast sea of really dreadful self published books detracts from the perceived value of the books which have been thoughtfully self published, which isn't good for any of us.

I'm just contesting your assertion that a book being good is the "most important" factor in it's success. It is a factor, to be sure, and one I would hope every author strives for above all others.
As I mentioned before, there are various factors which contribute to a book being "good". In no particular order there's literary merit, commercial potential, established fan base, plot, premise and pacing, pertinence, and so on. If a book isn't judged "good" by the people who matter (in trade publishing that's usually an agent first, then an editor and publisher, then your reader; in self publishing, you skip the editor and agent and go straight to the reader) then it's not going to be a success.

And yes, I too would hope that every author would strive to get their books as good as they can be but I've spoken, online and off, to so many writers who think that productivity is more important than quality, or that readers won't notice their poor punctuation, that I know that sadly it's not the case.

But plenty of mediocre books have been huge successes. And plenty of amazing books (films, music, plays, etc.) have been complete failures from a sales perspective.
That's because "good" isn't only about literary merit; nor does it have to conform with what you like. If you like books of one particular sort, but books of another sort sell better, that doesn't make the books of that other sort less good even though you've just called them mediocre: it just means that they're good in a different way, they're not to your taste, or that you haven't actually read them but have read articles about them which have told you that they're mediocre.

Of course most people would not publish a book without a potential readership. But a book could be very good and still never find an audience due to a myriad of factors.
People publish books which have miniscule potential readerships every day. Just look at how many books are self published and go on to sell in low double-digits.

I agree that good books might fail to find their audience: I've seen it happen. But books which really are bad? You can promote the socks off them and they're still going to fail to sell proportionately well. If Oprah were to hold up a really bad book then it would benefit from her endorsement: it would experience a bump in sales. But it wouldn't exhibit that huge surge of sales that other better-written books would under the same circumstances.
 

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Old Hack, if you're including things like 'established fan base' in your definition of a 'good book', you're using a very, very broad definition of the term.

A lot of the things that other people are working on (writing multiple books, networking, etc.) are done in order to establish their fan base, right? So it doesn't make sense to me that you're dismissing their efforts in that area by saying they should be focusing on writing a good book when, by your definition of what a good book is, they need to include those efforts.
 

Old Hack

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Old Hack, if you're including things like 'established fan base' in your definition of a 'good book', you're using a very, very broad definition of the term.

I don't include it in my definition now, but then I am rarely involved in the decision to acquire new titles these days. And you're missing my point. I'll have another go.

You'll remember that when L.W. Patricks wrote,

I've been doing a lot of research and the keys to sales success are:

Have a good cover
Have the book reviewed
Stay active with your target audience
Publish another book

I pointed out that he'd overlooked the need for all of us to write a good book: then mforge wrote,

I'm just contesting your assertion that a book being good is the "most important" factor in it's success. It is a factor, to be sure, and one I would hope every author strives for above all others. But plenty of mediocre books have been huge successes.

In my response to mforge I was trying to point out that books are not necessarily "mediocre" just because he doesn't like them; and that there are ways to measure how "good" a book is (when considering it for publication) which don't rely entirely on its literary merit, such as the one you picked up on--whether or not an author has an established fan base.

All these factors should considered when making the decision whether or not to publish, regardless of whether we're publishing our own work or publishing that of others. How influential these various factors are on the eventual sales of the book depends to great extent on who wrote the book and where they are in their publishing journey: for example, when Neil Gaiman writes a book now, he can be pretty certain that he'll find a publisher for it because trade publishers know he has an established fan base, and that it'll sell well as a result (that's not to say that Mr Gaiman is a poor writer: just that he's proved so saleable that he no longer has to prove his talent in the same way that less well-known writers might); whereas if an unknown writer wants to get published then they have to write a book which has strong commercial potential.

A lot of the things that other people are working on (writing multiple books, networking, etc.) are done in order to establish their fan base, right? So it doesn't make sense to me that you're dismissing their efforts in that area by saying they should be focusing on writing a good book when, by your definition of what a good book is, they need to include those efforts.

I think you're confused. Nowhere did I dismiss the promotional efforts that anyone's made: I just pointed out that L.W. Patrick's "keys to sales success" ignored entirely the requirement that the book being published should actually be good. Which is, I think, a pretty cynical and sad attitude for any writer to have, both towards publishing and their readership.

Now, shall we get back on topic?
 

StephanieZie

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mforge: I think the book looks interesting. It reminds me of a party-game version of The pig that wants to be eaten by Julian Baggini.

I find the website confusing, though. You have alot of blank white space, and then an identical set of links both above and below the main heading. Why two sets? When I scroll down, I'm confronted by more white space until I get to what I want to see. The "shop" page is well formatted and pleasing to the eye, and I think you'd do well to use that template for the rest of the website too. The weekly hypoethical is a good concept, but again the page is badly formatted and it makes it hard to get to what I want to see. I like the drawings on the gallery page, but it would be nice if they were side-by-side with the sample questions.

Having said all that, I agree with veinglory. I'd like to know more about how I would use this book in social situations. My first instinct is that this book is designed to work as a party game. Is there any kind of game element, with score keeping? If there is, you need to make it more clear, and if not, I think there needs to be.

As far as the questions go: Some of them are a bit provocative. That doesn't really bother me personally, but it may mean that your book will not see a mainstream audience, especially if it's touted as an ice-breaker or way to get to know your friends better. There are some opinions people don't necessarily want to share with their friends, and for good reasons. Eugenics comes to mind. So people are either going to be outed as having really radical and potentially offensive views, or they're going to lie, which takes away the whole fun of the game. However, you've said you're okay with it not becoming mainstream that so I'll take it at face value.

Overall, I like the idea of the book, but again, show me how it could work in social situations (I like your suggestion of putting up videos of people reading it at parties and such), and please please please fix the website. Good luck :)
 
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