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Thread: [Publicity] Market or Die

  1. #26
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    I couldn't possibly write as many books in my life as a reader can read in a year.

    If this art were competitive who could stand against Mark Twain?

  2. #27
    Shakespearean Fool DreamWeaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
    If this art were competitive who could stand against Mark Twain?
    Jane Austen? <GDRVVF>
    Why doesn't George R. R. Martin use Twitter? He already killed off all 140 characters.

  3. #28
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    The Steel-Cage Grudge Match between Jane Austen and Mark Twain would be awesome.

  4. #29
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Hey Gang- A few of things.

    1. Yes. I was asked to post here on behalf of MODAS and as a client who received the services that I paid for I am more than happy to do so.

    2. I paid for a competitive analysis and didntwinthelottery explained that service beautifully in their comment above.

    3. Why pay for this service? I don't have the time to do the kind of in-depth analysis of where I currently fall in the market and I was thrilled to find an experienced company to execute that for me.

    4. Authors absolutely do compete with one another but it doesn't have to be a cut-throat environment. The reality is that we are all competing for the attention of the readers. It's that simple. This analysis helps identify where an author can improve their overall marketing strategy, show where there could be gaps in their current plan and identify missed opportunities. It is then up to the author to utilize the information and apply it moving forward. It's like any other service you pay for. A gym membership for example. You can pay x dollars a month for a membership at Planet Fitness but if you don't get yourself in the gym and do the work then you won't see any results.

    5. I was so pleased with the results that I provided this endorsement for the company.
    "The services provided at Market or Die Author Services are a must have for any author looking for help in navigating the world of book marketing or building an author brand."-Sara Humphreys

  5. #30
    practical experience, FTW Bogna's Avatar
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    Sara, can you provide some concrete data? Like how much your sales improved.
    Free At Last available 8-28-2015!

  6. #31
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I would say authors both compete with and compliment each other. Few niches are structured such that the customer buys one book of that type, and never any other.

    This very thread may represent the trouble of talking across paradigm-- e. g. A group that is predominantly competition minded versus a forum that emphasizes collaboration
    Emily Veinglory

  7. #32
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
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    I only compete with myself. If readers buy someone else's book today and mine next week or next month, I'm fine with that.
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

  8. #33
    Shakespearean Fool DreamWeaver's Avatar
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    Having a GE dishwasher, I thought of the competitive aspect as this: I go out and aggressively shop for the ONE BEST dishwasher. I won't buy another dishwasher for 10 or 15 years. I go out and shop for a good book. If I like it, I may buy every book I can find by that author, plus several comparables by other authors, over the course of a year.

    It's very, very different. I think the competitive analysis sounds quite useful, but IMO would be more logically termed a comparable analysis.

    But that wouldn't sell as many analyses probably, so I'd have to give kudos to the sales mojo of MOD, in marketing to their customers (authors).

    By the way, Market or Die seriously needs to get together with Publish or Perish.
    Why doesn't George R. R. Martin use Twitter? He already killed off all 140 characters.

  9. #34
    practical experience, FTW Khazarkhum's Avatar
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    You'd think at least one of the new people whom MOD has apparently asked to come post here would be able to provide some evidence of sale figures.

  10. #35
    designs books | writes books adarkfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khazarkhum View Post
    You'd think at least one of the new people whom MOD has apparently asked to come post here would be able to provide some evidence of sale figures.
    They're too busy creating more accounts
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  11. #36
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I don't think we can complain about new members, and about the lack of new members, at the same time without starting to sound a tad conceited. They either want to participate here or they don't -- there is no obligation
    Emily Veinglory

  12. #37
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
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    The thing about sales figures is that even having any listed doesn't validate the market strategies. There's nothing to compare the sales figures to - ie, no way to determine if the marketing strategies suggested/taken actually worked. Given that no one even has a release yet (unless I missed someone and apologies if that's so), how can anyone say this is effective at all, let alone cost effective?
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

  13. #38
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Listing numbers attached to marketing products would be misleading, at least in my opinion. You can take or leave any of this, of course, but here's why:

    If author A is traditionally published and their publisher gets them into Kirkus and PW, gets their books on the shelves at bookstores and Walmarts everywhere, has global distribution and maybe even some foreign rights sold, takes out ads for the author, and the author buys marketing service X, author A will probably have different sales numbers than say, author B, who is indie published, ebook only, and maybe pt together a small blog tour before release, who also buys marketing service x.

    It would be disingenuous to say that product X is what made the difference. So unless an author has previous books released and the ONLY factor that has changed is product X, I would seriously question those numbers.

    If you want marketing services, shop around, call, and make the best decision for you.

  14. #39
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Finally, now I can take your questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khazarkhum View Post
    You'd think at least one of the new people whom MOD has apparently asked to come post here would be able to provide some evidence of sale figures.
    I had a lot of trouble with registration. I'm sorry for the delay in responding to these layers of threads. Our company is very new. Most of our authors are new and their books do not release until 2013. Not all of the work we do directly reflects sales, such as the analysis we did for Sara Humphreys.

  15. #40
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Help from friends, new accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by adarkfox View Post
    They're too busy creating more accounts
    Not exactly, they were trying to help me because I was unable to respond to this myself. My apologies.

  16. #41
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Having a GE dishwasher, I thought of the competitive aspect as this: I go out and aggressively shop for the ONE BEST dishwasher. I won't buy another dishwasher for 10 or 15 years. I go out and shop for a good book. If I like it, I may buy every book I can find by that author, plus several comparables by other authors, over the course of a year.

    It's very, very different. I think the competitive analysis sounds quite useful, but IMO would be more logically termed a comparable analysis.

    But that wouldn't sell as many analyses probably, so I'd have to give kudos to the sales mojo of MOD, in marketing to their customers (authors).

    By the way, Market or Die seriously needs to get together with Publish or Perish.
    Dream Weaver,
    Very good. What the analysis is designed to do for the author is to compare them (to other authors of their choosing) to see how they compare in using QR codes, newsletters, social media, utilize their website so on and so forth.

    The analysis is provided with a recommendation of what the author could do to enhance their current marketing activities.

  17. #42
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Again, the analysis we did for Sara was of her current marketing activities and what she could do better with. It did not affect sales and it seems only fair that she would not post sales data associated with our work.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    With all the brand-new posters here to tell us how happy they are (unfortunately with very little solid detail), I am beginning to wonder if one of MOD's marketing techniques is to rally the troops on forums? This doesn't seem very professional and so far seems rather ineffective, given the lack of solid data to back up the motherhood & apple pie statements.

    Guess I'm another Missouri person.... Keeping an open mind--I'm willing to be converted with concrete data and details.

    ETA: didntwinthepowerball, thanks for your details. I will be very interested to hear your estimate of how much this helped your sales, after your book has come out and had some time to build. Since you got the competitive market analysis, you should have a good idea how your book does against the "competition". (I put that in quotes simply because it's not exactly competition--people who buy books tend to buy several in the genre they like. They mostly arrive at the cash register with an armload or at least a stack, rarely with the one gem that beat out the competition .)
    Dream Weaver, we are eager to see didn'twinthepowerball's sales too. We are doing everything we can to make sure she has the best marketing support possible.

  19. #44
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khazarkhum View Post
    It's very nice that she's in marketing.

    That still doesn't explain why it's so expensive, what it does, or if a writer should bother with it. When the website marketing your services is unclear about just what those services are, it makes me wonder how well they'd promote my work.

    I'm not sure if you've visited MJ Rose's site, but those marketing packages are priced in the thousands. All funds are fully refundable if the author is not satisfied with the work performed by MODAS.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaJeanne View Post
    But, Facebook ads?? I keep hearing over and over again that Facebook advertising hasn't been effective for anyone, in any industry.

    While several people in this thread have said very nice things about her, which I have no doubt are true, no one has answered the question:

    what does she do for authors that they couldn't do for themselves? (or, if they lack the time and inclination, hire someone else to do for them for a lot less money)

    Having marketing experience with GE is great, but that's not something she does to market books. Since she's worked in both industries, I'm sure she's aware of how different marking books is from marketing for a large corporation like GE -- and thus she should understand why we'd need to have explained how she is applying experience from the one to make it relevant to the other.

    She may well have excellent services, that are well worth the investment, that are far beyond what an author can do alone. But as a marketing expert, I would expect that she could market those services to us in a way that we understand what she is offering and why it is so valuable.

    Given the preponderance of truly bad websites out there, I can see how a $75 website critique could be valuable to some.

    But the highest priced packages, involving things like mentions on social media (to people following Market or Die, who are presumably other authors interested in promoting themselves, rather than readers looking for books), and Facebook ads (does she have any information showing that they are effective, to counter everything I've heard about how and why they are not?) it's harder for me to see the value of.
    LindaJeanne: Please contact me via my website www.marketordie.net, I'd love to discuss this further with you and explain the different uses of Facebook ads.

  21. #46
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
    Sure are a lot of brand-new posters here.
    Yes, James D. Macdonald, I asked for help in responding to all these different questions when I had trouble responding myself. Looks like we have the login thing fixed now

  22. #47
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by didntwinthepowerball View Post
    If author A is traditionally published and ... A will probably have different sales numbers than say, author B, who is indie published, ebook only, and maybe pt together a small blog tour before release, who also buys marketing service x.

    It would be disingenuous to say that product X is what made the difference. So unless an author has previous books released and the ONLY factor that has changed is product X, I would seriously question those numbers.
    Obviously one could not compare two different authors. The only way to determine if the services were effective would be to compare sales figures for that author before and after using those services. And then determine whether or not the change in sales, if any, was at least as much as the cost for those services. At this point, we don't have any figures because the people posting here haven't even released yet. So while they may be satisfied, they have nothing to show their satisfaction is, in a practical and financial sense, justified.
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

  23. #48
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowwalker View Post
    Obviously one could not compare two different authors. The only way to determine if the services were effective would be to compare sales figures for that author before and after using those services. And then determine whether or not the change in sales, if any, was at least as much as the cost for those services. At this point, we don't have any figures because the people posting here haven't even released yet. So while they may be satisfied, they have nothing to show their satisfaction is, in a practical and financial sense, justified.
    Shadow walker,
    You are trying to tie marketing activities by two different authors to sales. Realistically, you can't do this. It won't make sense. What the competitive landscape does is it looks at what authors are doing to market their work and finds places where they are being successful. We find these areas and highlight to the author places where they may find new readers or how to use different marketing tactics to find readers.

    I'd be happy to send you an article in this month's RWR titled, "Understanding the P's of Marketing" by Janice Hussein. In it, she states marketing isn't about sales, it's about relationships. IF you'd like a copy, please email me via my website.

  24. #49
    practical experience, FTW Bogna's Avatar
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    Okay, I will ask for a third time, can anyone provide us with numbers? If marketing doesn't improve sales, then there is no point in marketing. I wasn't asking specifically for Powerball's numbers. ANY of you clients numbers would be sufficient.
    Free At Last available 8-28-2015!

  25. #50
    empty-nester! shadowwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenfuscomarketordie View Post
    Shadow walker,
    You are trying to tie marketing activities by two different authors to sales.
    Please reread this: "Obviously one could not compare two different authors."

    I was pointing out that the only way to judge the effectiveness would be to see if there was any change in sales before and after using your strategies. Add to that that one would have to look at several authors' results (before and after) to see if your advice works consistently.
    Je suis Charlie

    "It seems rather like wanting to be ... a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip." - Roger Zelazny

    Passion is easy; commitment is hard.

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