Simple things that a lot of Fantasy Writers get wrong in their books....

jjdebenedictis said:

Mitts keep your fingers in a larger pocket of air, and so provide better insulation. Gloves only have whatever air is trapped in the thickness of the material, plus whatever insulating properties the material itself has (which mitts can also have.)

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If you have to work in sub zero, you wear gloves inside your mittens, and you have an extra dry pair in your gear.

Roxxsmom said:

I just thought of one of my pet peeves (and not just in fantasy). Moon phases. The moon does not always rise at dusk and always set at dawn (only does this in the full phase). The moon rises and sets a little later each day of its cycle. It depends on the phase it's in, and the only completely "moonless" night is when the moon is new (and therefore up and invisible during the day). A new moon is the only phase that can produce a solar eclipse.

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This one bothers me too. You see it in Donaldson's Covenant books, for example. I find it less forgivable than mistakes about horses or whatever--most of us have to go out of our way to get experience with horses, but it should be easy to glance at the sky now and then to familiarize yourself with the behavior of the Moon.

Impossible lunar phases were satirized in the movie The Truman Show--apparently Truman never noticed that anything was amiss.

Medievalist said:

If you have to work in sub zero, you wear gloves inside your mittens, and you have an extra dry pair in your gear.

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I've done work in 40 below. You don't wear gloves below. You wear another set of mitts. Of course, provincial law prohibits most workers from working in such harsh weather.

Kevin Nelson said:

Impossible lunar phases were satirized in the movie The Truman Show--apparently Truman never noticed that anything was amiss.

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I had a poster when I was in college that showed the nearly full moon setting behind the San Francisco bay bridge at sunset. I didn't think about it for a while, and then one day, I realized that something wasn't right there. How could the sun's light be hitting the face of the moon to light most of it up if the sun was setting behind it?

Unless we're on an alien world and there's another sun!

Seriously, though, I sometimes sneak the lunar phases in so my characters (and an astute reader) know approximately what time it is. For instance, "The moon's waning crescent was rising in the east," means it's after midnight local time.

Though I was beta reading a book where there was this small, quickly orbiting moon that was doing impossible things with its phases, based on the speed of its orbit and proximity to the planet. When I pointed this out, the author revealed to me that in his world, the inner moon was actually an artificial object with its own luminosity. The people living on the planet didn't know this, as they hadn't invented telescopes yet.

I also remember one book where a character looked up at night and saw the disc of the new moon occluding the stars at night.

Duoh!

Xelebes said:

I've done work in 40 below. You don't wear gloves below. You wear another set of mitts. Of course, provincial law prohibits most workers from working in such harsh weather.

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Reminds me of that old joke--is that Celsius or Fahrenheit?

Rachel Udin said:

Angora rabbit, llama hair, dogs, cats, goats. Wool refers not only to sheep, but other animals... rabbits would also be possible.

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Wool is wool. Everything else has its own name (cashmere, for instance) or is called fiber or hair. But yes, I was using wool/sheep as an example; if the culture in question has llama hair used for clothing, there should be llamas around.

You can make thread from mussels and shellfish (Byssal thread). A fact I have shamelessly just put into a project where there are no sheep. Or llamas. Or anything hairy come to think of it.

Saanen said:

Wool is wool. Everything else has its own name (cashmere, for instance) or is called fiber or hair. But yes, I was using wool/sheep as an example; if the culture in question has llama hair used for clothing, there should be llamas around.

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First sentence (with reference): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wool

Wool is a general term... there are more specific terms on *types of wool* but not everything comes from sheep.

Mr Flibble said:

You can make thread from mussels and shellfish (Byssal thread). A fact I have shamelessly just put into a project where there are no sheep. Or llamas. Or anything hairy come to think of it.

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Humans? Horses--horse hair has been used for lots of clothing items, including hats. Or is there a French and Brazilian wax and all mammals were killed? =D

Buffysquirrel said:

Except that there have been times in Earth's history when the poles weren't frozen as they are now. And it may be we're due for another of them....

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In fact, the Earth's polar regions have probably been free of significant ice and snow more commonly than they have had ice caps. Periods of major glaciation on the planet have been sporadic and, in geologic terms, relatively short. Our current "ice age" (and we are in one) has only been going on for about 2 million years. Prior to that, you have to go back several tens of millions of years to hit another similar period.

What exactly causes these episodes isn't entirely clear, but the configuration of continental masses and ocean currents probably has something to do with it. In the case of the current episode, its beginning coincides with the closing up of the isthmus of Panama, due to volcanic action. That happened a little more than 2 million years ago, and severed the connection between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, thereby creating the current pattern we call the Gulf Stream.

And with 70% of the Earth's surface covered by oceans, there haven't always been continental masses at the poles.

caw

Rachel Udin said:

Humans? Horses--horse hair has been used for lots of clothing items, including hats. Or is there a French and Brazilian wax and all mammals were killed? =D

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I'm given to understand that horses tend to drown underwater.

Byssal was used to make byssal cloth/sea silk in ye olde days (it was used to wrap mummies). Rare and expensive, but there. And the humans - what there are in this particular tale - are all hoity toity about keeping their bits and bobs on their body. Why shave when they can get their slaves to farm byssal? (It's still fairly rare - not as rare as wool which would have to be imported from a long, long way away - so they use other things mostly, but for woven stuff, byssal, as well as kelp fibre which can produce a fine cotton type material.)


If it's there and it does the job, people will use it. Why fall back on wool, just because it's what we use? Other places use other stuff. Looking at how to get yoru wool is looking at it the wrong way round. What have they got? And can they use it to make clothes?

blacbird said:

In fact, the Earth's polar regions have probably been free of significant ice and snow more commonly than they have had ice caps. Periods of major glaciation on the planet have been sporadic and, in geologic terms, relatively short. Our current "ice age" (and we are in one) has only been going on for about 2 million years.
caw

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I would suggest that if a writer wants to create a world where the climate is significantly different from the one we've experienced since the dawn of human civilization on Earth, though, that he or she think of how this might impact things like local climates, species distributions, currents and also where people actually live and what resources they have available--insofar as they affect the story and setting.

The effect that land forms (like mountain ranges and oceans) will have on local climates are often ignored by fantasy and sci fi writers in their world building. Terrain and topography will have a strong effect on a country's culture and perspective, as well as influencing the source of its wealth (or lack thereof).

Vomaxx said:

OK, I'll bite: what ought people to wear in very cold temps? Mittens?

(I ask this as someone who has lived most of his life in Maine and Minnesota and who wears gloves when it is cold. What have I been doing wrong?)

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What a few other folks said about mitts and trapped air. You can get away with just gloves if you're not working with your hands, or you're really exerting yourself (frex, chopping wood), but otherwise, not for long.

Well, there are a few freaks who never seem to get cold even if they run around half-nekkid, but that ain't the norm! Of course, if your fantasy species has the body temp and circulation to pull it off....

[Former Moorhead MN resident myself ]

Simple things I can get nitpicky about: Horse-stuff, fighting, camping, winter-depictions, warfare. Like... sword-fights tend to be short. Brawls tend to be short. The blade doesn't cling or swish dramatically when you pull it out of a leather sheath unless you've lined it with steel or some metal in which case your blade might get a bit rusty after a while (then again, I've no idea if there're people who do this. Many professionals don't afaik, so there must be a good reason for it). Lighting a campfire sucks if you haven't a lighter/storm lighter/matches and haven't camped out before, there're often mosquitoes too so sleeping in the woods is not so much fun (you can be a woods-goer all your life and not get used to mosquitoes). Horses don't chortle and neight all-the-frigging-time. You don't usually hang out Game-of-Thrones -cool hatless and gloveless and your coat open in midwinter. Unless you're that guy who runs marathons in boxers in sub-zero.

Since the writer can't take everything into consideration, some funny slip-ups may occur (unless the writer falls back on "c'mon, it's fantasy! Fantastic moon phases/wool/horses!"). If I spot some, I do give leeway to the author 'cause they can't be experts on everything, but sometimes it's really nice to note that 'hey, this writer really got something very specific right!', and somehow it's even more delightful if I check the writer's bio and see they are vegetarians and Greenpeace members or somesuch, but wrote a meat-munching hunter in such a way I found her/him thoroughly believable (yes, I crawled out of cold, dark far north woods before I settled in a city, so some of the stuff is pretty familiar to me).

Xelebes said:

Medievalist said:

If you have to work in sub zero, you wear gloves inside your mittens, and you have an extra dry pair in your gear.

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I've done work in 40 below. You don't wear gloves below. You wear another set of mitts. Of course, provincial law prohibits most workers from working in such harsh weather.

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I've always found a pair of gloves and then mitts over them a bit warmer. But I've gotten used to both practices, so not sure which is really better. Then again, I don't even bother to go out if it's -40 C.

I remember people in the south of England would be amazed at my leaving my coat unfastened in winter. I'm from the North.

Many years ago my aunt and her family moved to Houma, Louisiana from Tennessee. She said she would go out to mow the lawn in December when it was 60 degrees wearing a T-shirt and jeans, and her neighbors would stop to stare at her. They'd be all bundled up in coats and hats. So it's definitely what you're used to. (And the opposite of that is when I moved briefly to Pennsylvania from Tennessee, I spent the entire summer wondering when it would warm up, and the entire winter thinking I was just going to seriously die if I didn't get warm.)

A great deal of fantasy writers think that you can have small portable steam engine that will have the same output as a combustion engine the same size.

We switched over for a reason, steam power sucks.

And yet here I am reading your comment on a computer powered by electricity generated by steam.

Saanen said:

So it's definitely what you're used to. (And the opposite of that is when I moved briefly to Pennsylvania from Tennessee, I spent the entire summer wondering when it would warm up, and the entire winter thinking I was just going to seriously die if I didn't get warm.)

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Oh yeah, definitely (hence "usually" in my post), thanks for the examples yes, it counts what one is used to, also size matters. But if you look around here (Finland) during winter, you'd think people who've lived all their lives up north have gotten used to the cold already?No, we don't in general walk around hatless, gloveless, and coats open in midwinter (-25 C / -13 F bites!)

Then there're people like me who should just give up and move permanently to Antigua or some other warm island in the Caribbeans.

neilfriske said:

A great deal of fantasy writers think that you can have small portable steam engine that will have the same output as a combustion engine the same size.

We switched over for a reason, steam power sucks.

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That depends on the power source that creates the steam.

K. Trian said:

I've always found a pair of gloves and then mitts over them a bit warmer. But I've gotten used to both practices, so not sure which is really better. Then again, I don't even bother to go out if it's -40 C.

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If you have to work with your hands—in my case, working on a generator and sugaring and dealing with animals—mittens in many cases aren't going to allow for manual dexterity.

Gloves under mittens make it easier to do your work and get back inside.

You take off your mittens if you really need to be able to use your hands, and then put them on again when you've finished the task.

And you carry an extra pair of gloves in your inside pocket, where they're kept warm and dry. Wet clothing can be very very dangerous.

I think the gloves vs. mittens (or any combination of either) depends on what you're doing (how much finger dexterity you need).

But yeah, the weather forecast promises -20 Fahrenheit /-30 (or so) in Celcius for next week here in southern Finland and presently if you step outside, you'll end up knee-deep in snow (except for the bits the plows have visited). I kinda got the idea from GRR Martin's Song of Fire and Ice that at least the Wall had similar weather conditions and, well, if someone can get used to standing guard outside at -20F without a hat and a ton of clothes on them, they get my respect (and sympathies) for being much tougher than I

About 10 years ago I stood at a line party in around -18F / -28C for a tad over six hours with only one pair of gloves and socks, long undies, jeans, t-shirt, sweater, and a jacket. Once I got inside, it took around half an hour before I could even feel my fingers/toes again. Oh, and I had holes in my gloves and shoes. Yes, I was an idiot (some argue I still am).


Probably the biggest pet peeve for me in fantasy is combat (be it about melee weapons or guns or whatever). It's such a rare treat to read anything that's even borderline realistic and at least for me a book can end up wallbanged if the fight scenes are, well, silly (unrealistic). At least if the overall tone of the book is realistic because if it's obvious the author has thrown any notions of realism out the window, it wouldn't make much sense for them to make an exception when it comes to depictions of combat. The reverse, however, is far more common, alas.

Medievalist said:

If you have to work with your hands—in my case, working on a generator and sugaring and dealing with animals—mittens in many cases aren't going to allow for manual dexterity.

Gloves under mittens make it easier to do your work and get back inside.

You take off your mittens if you really need to be able to use your hands, and then put them on again when you've finished the task.

And you carry an extra pair of gloves in your inside pocket, where they're kept warm and dry. Wet clothing can be very very dangerous.

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*takes notes*

T. Trian said:

But yeah, the weather forecast promises -20 Fahrenheit /-30 (or so) in Celcius for next week here in southern Finland and presently if you step outside, you'll end up knee-deep in snow (except for the bits the plows have visited). I kinda got the idea from GRR Martin's Song of Fire and Ice that at least the Wall had similar weather conditions and, well, if someone can get used to standing guard outside at -20F without a hat and a ton of clothes on them, they get my respect (and sympathies) for being much tougher than I

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I can remember as a kid having two adults pointed out to me, one with a missing ear and one with missing finger tips, as mobile caution warnings about frostbite.

I noticed something while rereading The Fellowship of the Ring earlier. In the first chapter, at Bilbo and Frodo's joint birthday party, Gandalf is setting off fireworks. I quote: "The dragon passed like an express train, turned a somersault, and burst over Bywater with a deafening explosion."

The fact that Mr. Tolkien used a freight train in the simile about the dragon firework took me out of the story. I thought, there are no express trains, let alone trains of any kind, in Middle Earth, so why did he put that in there? It stood out to me, though I may be the only person who has bothered to think twice about it.

Jenny

Medievalist said:

If you have to work with your hands—in my case, working on a generator and sugaring and dealing with animals—mittens in many cases aren't going to allow for manual dexterity.

Gloves under mittens make it easier to do your work and get back inside.

You take off your mittens if you really need to be able to use your hands, and then put them on again when you've finished the task.

And you carry an extra pair of gloves in your inside pocket, where they're kept warm and dry. Wet clothing can be very very dangerous.

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Most of my work has been working with setting up racking outside or getting the vent-lid off the drum full of cement. You double-mitt when lifting and knocking the steel, and then taking off the double-mitt when dropping in the key after which you quickly put it back on.