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ClareGreen

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I obviously didn't explain it very well.

You use the magnetic sensor to locate the magnetic north pole and then a fixed vector system to determine the direction of the true north pole. The important thing to remember is that it is a dynamic and not a static system, so the differential could then (possibly) be used to determine a more exact location.

I'm not saying it is practical - just theoretically possible;) Of course, if anybody has got any other ideas....

Oh wow, I just looked up magnetic declination. I, er. Looks like the magnetic field isn't nearly as simple as all those models made it look. The lines at which your compass is off from true north by the same angle are nowhere near straight - and they move around, and not always slowly. Yipe. I suspect you'd need to know where you were before you started.
 

ClareGreen

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If I had a small laser. Something like a powerful laser pointer. Is it possible for that laser to take a piece of what it's housed in and transport it to where the laser stops.

For example, if I shone a laser pointer at a wall would it be possible for a piece of the laser pointer to be torn free by the laser, carried along the beam, and embedded in the wall? I'm thinking a very small part of the laser pointer, i.e. a sub-atomic particle sized part of it that would come from the narrowed opening used to restrict the beam size.

*Thanks for the continued indulgence, folks.*

Are photons appropriate sub-atomic particles?
 

WriteKnight

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It sounds like you're asking about 'transporting' again. Sending material along an electromagnetic wave. That's what was brought up earlier - the various notions of how a transporter would work. In the case you have explained, you are suggesting sending a sub atomic particle (Such as a photon) along the laser beam. Well, sure - that's how light travels. (Setting aside the wave/particle argument).

If you could answer the question - WHAT DOES YOUR STORY REQUIRE? - we might be able to come up with a more-or-less realistic 'scientific' explanation, utilizing a heavy dose of 'handwavium'. That would be simpler than trying to read your mind.
 

benbradley

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I might be in the process of coming up with another option . . . This is so not going to be asked well, but you guys have been great at indulging me, so I will give it a go.

If I had a small laser. Something like a powerful laser pointer. Is it possible for that laser to take a piece of what it's housed in and transport it to where the laser stops.

For example, if I shone a laser pointer at a wall would it be possible for a piece of the laser pointer to be torn free by the laser, carried along the beam, and embedded in the wall? I'm thinking a very small part of the laser pointer, i.e. a sub-atomic particle sized part of it that would come from the narrowed opening used to restrict the beam size.

I read that back and I think I might be the only one who will understand what I'm asking ... Ridicule me to your hearts content!

*Thanks for the continued indulgence, folks.*
I've read of lasers being used as particle accelerators as described here, but that's only in specific conditions and not applicable through air, and probably not to any laser light generating device that's small enough to hold in your hand.
 

profen4

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Okay, so the hitch of the story is as follows:

A scientist has discovered a piece of tech that enables worm-hole type travel between two points. The requirement of the tech is that it needs to somehow tag the destination location, OR, something at the destination location has to be imitable by the tech to link the two places - something simple like the application of electricity or vibration to the tech.

That imitable quality of the destination location must be unique to that location. And it must be a quality that is distinguishable from another location even just a foot away.

I thought about something like quantum nonlocality but I couldn't quite determine what assumptions I'd have to make about the tech - i.e. would the tech have to generate some negative energy, and if so, would the negative energy need to be generated at both ends of the wormhole? . . . If that is required than a piece of the tech must remain at the destination location, and thus my question about somehow transplanting a piece of an object through simple means such as a laser pointer.

Many, many thanks for the assistance, guys and gals, I do appreciate it!
 
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ClareGreen

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Profen4, look up 'quantum entanglement' and 'ansible'. I think those might be the seeds you need.
 

BDSEmpire

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You can handle this like Star Trek - your transport system doesn't need a special landing pad at the other end to work it manages to handle all the guff. Or you can do this like other writers have done and have a slow ship travel to the remote location in order to setup the landing pad.


It's your story, you can handwave things away however you want. You can have a perfectly wonderful story without having to explicitly talk about how the tech works. Hell, you have the entirety of space opera to go nuts in - that's a really fun genre where space travel moves exactly at the speed of plot, you can survive without a helmet in open space (though you may get the sniffles), there are roguish pirates and beautiful ladies and iron-jawed heroes all vying for some prize. It's more important that the story move forward than how the tech works.
 

profen4

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You can handle this like Star Trek - your transport system doesn't need a special landing pad at the other end to work it manages to handle all the guff. Or you can do this like other writers have done and have a slow ship travel to the remote location in order to setup the landing pad.


It's your story, you can handwave things away however you want. You can have a perfectly wonderful story without having to explicitly talk about how the tech works. Hell, you have the entirety of space opera to go nuts in - that's a really fun genre where space travel moves exactly at the speed of plot, you can survive without a helmet in open space (though you may get the sniffles), there are roguish pirates and beautiful ladies and iron-jawed heroes all vying for some prize. It's more important that the story move forward than how the tech works.


You're not wrong, and honestly I'm 35K into the rough draft and I only intend on making a single simple comment about the actual science of it: as in, "Last I heard he was working on quantum nonlocality. Said he found something that bridged the gap. I haven't a clue what he meant by that."

BUT, I want some rules for myself. I want to know that a)if you're going to open a worm hole between two points is it generally accepted that something needs occur at both ends? or b)is there a naturally occurring vibration that could be mimicked and is unique to a very precise location? c)would using a laser pointer (like the kind you can use to check temperature, or distance) to pinpoint a location enable the transfer of some material (even at a subatomic level) to that location, effectively tagging it.

See what I mean? I want the edge of truth. Take a theory and confirm it in fiction. Yep, this crazy scientist was right after all. You can open a worm hole, all you need is a device that generates negative energy when it's applied with a particular voltage, or vibration, or something else.
 
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blacbird

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It's your story, you can handwave things away however you want. You can have a perfectly wonderful story without having to explicitly talk about how the tech works.

This, emphasized 1000X. I'll go even farther to suggest that obsession about the details of physically impossible technology likely as not will damage your story.

We've recently had a rather disturbing number of threads here concerned with this sort of stuff. You want a "perfectly wonderful story without having to explicitly talk about how the tech works"? Try these:

The Time Machine, by H.G. Wells; this short novel is the seed for modern science fiction, and I don't think any aspiring SF writer should not have read it.

The Martian Chronicles, by Ray Bradbury

Childhood's End, and The City and the Stars, by Arthur C. Clarke

Eden, and Fiasco, by Stanislaw Lem

The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, by Philip K. Dick

SF readers are conditioned to acceptance of technological impossibility, in exchange for good story. You need to transport X to Y via some instantaneous electromagnificent device? Just do it. I don't give a rat's about the device, as long as the story grabs me. Nor do most other readers, meguesses. In fact, if you drag me into some Tom Clancyish description of a Jarkolian simulacrum fabricator, I'm headed straight for another book.

caw
 

profen4

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Many thanks guys. I plan to have the rough draft done by next week and I'll see how she turns out. Thanks for the help.
 
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benbradley

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SF readers are conditioned to acceptance of technological impossibility, in exchange for good story. You need to transport X to Y via some instantaneous electromagnificent device? Just do it. I don't give a rat's about the device, as long as the story grabs me. Nor do most other readers, meguesses. In fact, if you drag me into some Tom Clancyish description of a Jarkolian simulacrum fabricator, I'm headed straight for another book.

caw
This is a good point, though I'm a fan of "hard SF" and I'm always delighted when I see evidence in the story of some real science (even if it's separate from the Gee Whiz part that's an integral part of the plot), and I feel a little disappointed when it's not there.

I'll modify the above and say that for me a technological impossibility is FORGIVABLE in exchange for a good story.
 

backslashbaby

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If we can tell it's a precise location, then you can tell it's a precise location. The problem is the size of the databases and why they'd be storing all that info (and the sensors, and the algorithms and processing speed, etc). I can help you give some artificial intelligence gobblety-speak to cover the idea of that, but that might not work naturally with your world.

What's technology like in your world? Are they information crazy and have tons of processing power with no sacrifices (it's cheap and small enough)? Maybe they really do catalog so much. Maybe they do it specifically to use it for your wormhole thing.

You could make your question here work, imho, but you might have to world-build around it. It doesn't make sense without a lot of things being different than they are now, imho.
 

BDSEmpire

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An example of interstellar travel with the briefest of framing statements thrown in to handwave away the usual issues of faster-than-light travel:

Turner hunched down further into his chair. Reaching up, he checked his straps and gave them a little tug.

Reversion to realspace in ten seconds. All crew to deceleration stations.

Muttering quietly to himself Turner absentmindedly tugged on the already snug strap. This wasn't his first trip between systems but he never felt quite right during reversion. Something about dropping from many times the speed of light back into normal space put a twitch in his guts.

Reversion to realspace in 3.. 2.. 1. Reversion imminent.

Halfway between the moon and Mars, glittering like a jewel on black satin the device begins to spin up. In the circle of the gate a lightning storm of crackling energy arcs back and forth, distorting the view of the stars beyond. Impossible colors race back and forth across the bow of the gate as the tremendous energy causes ancient mechanisms to turn and pathways to arc and flare. In a no-time blink, a ship is there, returned to our universe from points beyond. The gate itself begins to spin down, its purpose fulfilled.

Entry into realspace complete. Ships status normal.

It wasn't that there was a moment that Turner could tell when he was in the jump and when he was back to the land of stars and sublight events. But his guts knew and churned away nervously as he undid the straps holding him into his deceleration chair.

"Another clean jump, eh Captain?"

Turner reached over and flicked the intercom switch. "Wish whoever had built those things had included some meds for the end of the flight."

"Haw haw, you got a grounder's gut, Cap. Just ain't cut out for the long runs." Turner bristled a bit at the slur but it was an old argument and he knew his part well.

"Yeah yeah and you got a spacers head, Jack. Empty as a nebula." Turner could hear Jack chuckle as the intercom clicked off. Free of his seat, he checked the readouts in front of him and saw green across the board. Time to hit the galley and get something to settle his stomach, he figured. Pushing off through the door hatch Turner thought he caught a brief blip of red on the proximity sensor. It wasn't there long enough to trigger a new contact warning from the computer. Probably just a stray burst of neutrinos or something futzing up the sensors. He'd check it out once his stomach was feeling more settled.

====================================
There you go - aliens did it. From here we can have Things riding along into realspace from the gate, or we can have Turner's upset tummy be used later in the story to indicate that we've hopped between realspace and warp drive if we're at a spot where he's been captured by forces unknown. We have moved our characters between spots at the speed of plot without bogging down into the exact mechanics of how it works. Hell, you could drop the description of the gate entirely and focus on the physical effects on the crew. The jump/warp/hyper drive Just Works and off people go to the stars.

Same thing for teleportation mechanisms. In my opinion you can have them Just Work and write around any specifics pretty easily. Rarely is the story served by talking about the mechanics of an tech rather than just using it. I've read loads of sci-fi and speculating about how the cool inventions work is part of the fun for the reader. It's fine to try and learn about modern physics and how it affects what we know about the universe and how your tech could fit into it, but don't let that stop you from writing your story.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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Okay, so the hitch of the story is as follows:

A scientist has discovered a piece of tech that enables worm-hole type travel between two points. The requirement of the tech is that it needs to somehow tag the destination location, OR, something at the destination location has to be imitable by the tech to link the two places - something simple like the application of electricity or vibration to the tech.

That imitable quality of the destination location must be unique to that location. And it must be a quality that is distinguishable from another location even just a foot away.

I thought about something like quantum nonlocality but I couldn't quite determine what assumptions I'd have to make about the tech - i.e. would the tech have to generate some negative energy, and if so, would the negative energy need to be generated at both ends of the wormhole? . . . If that is required than a piece of the tech must remain at the destination location, and thus my question about somehow transplanting a piece of an object through simple means such as a laser pointer.

Many, many thanks for the assistance, guys and gals, I do appreciate it!

This is essentially impossible in our universe. But there is a work around.

First the impossibility:

There are no unique characteristics of points in spacetime.

There are no unique characteristics of particles or field configurations. At the highest and lowest levels our universe is very simple.

The complexity we are used to comes about by arrangements and interactions between groups of simple things arranged in spacetime.

Here's a metaphor I find useful. Think of elementary particles as notes in a standard scale. The number of different notes is small (eight little notes to quote an old song, not accurate but good enough).

But if you double, triple or quadruple up the notes to make chords you have a larger number of possible objects. But still that's not enough to create a unique object. If you arrange sequences of notes and chords in time you can make something as complex as a symphony. If you then play the symphony with particular musicians playing particular instruments you will end up with something extremely complex and for all practical purposes unique.

The particles that make up atoms are simple and interchangeable. Atoms with the same number of protons and neutrons are essentially interchangeable. The same chemical structures of atoms are essentially interchangeable but we're getting more complex. The more you arrange things into levels of complexity the more you move toward uniqueness.

So, you can't uniquely tag something in the universe by what it is. But you should be able to tag a point in spacetime by what's around it. The exact patterns of light (in all the spectra) coming from all directions will never be the same for two points because the exact arrangements of light sources (all the stars in the universe) will never be exactly the same for two positions in space time.