Woman dies after being refused an abortion

fireluxlou said:

It would have, she got septicemia from miscarrying. Failure to diagnose a miscarriage can result in a blood infection for the mother or sepsis. The doctors didn't intervene to prevent sepsis occurring when she was miscarrying even though her condition was worsening (which would be a right time to intervene and end the pregnancy), they said the foetus was still had a beating heart so they refused to terminate when she asked for one.

Many women used to die of sepsis from a miscarriage, birth or still birth, you don't hear it as much now.

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We don't know that.
From the patient's reports of backache, it seems more likely that she had sepsis before the miscarriage.

waylander said:

We don't know that.
From the patient's reports of backache, it seems more likely that she had sepsis before the miscarriage.

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It's quite possible the sepsis induced the miscarriage. Either way, refusing to abort a dying foetus on the basis of a heartbeat is comparable to closing the barn door once the horse has already bolted. It's also a possibility that the strain of carrying a distressed and dying foetus contributed o the stress her body was under and exacerbated the disease process, hastening her death. I guess we'll know for certain after the inquest.

Refusing her an abortion under these circumstances was undoubtedly a cruel and inappropriate course of action, regardless of whether it was the primary cause of death.

waylander said:

Sepsis in pregnancy is not straightforward to diagnose according to Mrs Waylander, who is a practising midwife.

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Straightforward or not - who ever was in charge of her treatment was negligent. To let a woman be in pain for three days is unacceptable. My aunt was in labour for seventy two hours. The result of her bearing down on her unborn child was that he was born brain damaged. That was over sixty years ago - medical practice has progressed since then.

I am not able to be rational about this.

I wouldn't be so quick to call the doctors of the case negligent.

You have to remember that here, many doctors are afraid to preform an abortion for fear of losing their licence to practice and possible jail-time as abortions are still illegal. It may be a case that they were almost too afraid to approach her after she started asking for an abortion.

Also, the nut-jobs that were linked to earlier are mostly dismissed by most people here.

Legally, this should never have happened but there is nothing in place to protect doctors.

I would also ask that people do not equate this tragedy with our country's medical entirety.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

We are 19th. The U.S. is 37th. I don't know how it was 20 years ago but it's not the case now. We have one of the best education systems in the world and at the very top of that is medicine with only a few limited places being awarded to the very, very brightest students. (600 points for any of you familiar with the CAO point system we use for college places.)

Politicians are to blame for this, not doctors.

There are no words. I'm restraining the very strong urge to hunt these idiots down and slay them on principle.

Heavily centralized socialized medicine + conservative doctors = heartbreaking human suffering. And that's a problem throughout a lot of Europe. It's why I can't get behind totally socialized medicine. (And ironically, probably the best arguments American Republicans could make about heavily socialized medicine is, "If the government has control of your health care, _we_ might win elections and end up in charge of women's health." Somehow, I don't see them using that tactic, though.)

Also, I can't be the only one who thinks telling this woman, "This is a Catholic country," was meant to convey, "This is a white country."

I am so very very glad that I live where I do.

The news articles I've read say the septicemia was "documented ante-mortem," which to me means "before she died." Am I mistaken?

According to this article, she was being treated with antibiotics and had blood work done. It would seem the doctors knew she had a massive infection.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html

Alessandra Kelley said:

This makes me wonder if the "if the life of the mother is at risk" clause is a big lie, a sop to people of conscience who worry about women dying which will not actually be applied in horrific life and death situations like this one.

How long do we have to keep asking how many women have to die?

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It seems pretty obvious that it is merely a sop. I suppose if a doctor in Ireland refused to let his/her patient die rather than abort a pregnancy that was doomed anyway, he or she could cite the clause in defense of the decision. But it obviously is no bar to other doctors destroying human life at will. Conscience, oh lawmakers and doctors of Ireland? Sorry, but I see only self-righteousness and conceit at work here.

Oh, and manslaughter, too.

Actually, on moral grounds, I personally would call it murder by criminal negligence and/or depraved indifference to human life, but legally, manslaughter is probably all that could be made to stick -- in a civilized legal system.

I have a sneaking suspicion that they might not have been paying a huge amount of attention to her condition because she was a dirty, evil slutwhore who was there to murder her baby, the cruel, heartless wench.

The War on Women is a world war.

For the short term, abortions NEED to be available for situations like this.

Long term, we really need to find a better way to bring new humans into the world. Millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of medication technology and it's still got a way too high death rate for my tastes.

(For anybody who doesn't know, I am British but I've lived in Ireland for the last (nyerk) 9 years).

The laws surrounding abortion in Ireland are not fit for purpose and this has been known for many years. There has been much talk about sorting them out but it hasn't happened because the politicians are afraid of alienating voters, plus there are some heavy weight anti-abortion folks out there.

Mara said:

Heavily centralized socialized medicine + conservative doctors = heartbreaking human suffering. And that's a problem throughout a lot of Europe. It's why I can't get behind totally socialized medicine. (And ironically, probably the best arguments American Republicans could make about heavily socialized medicine is, "If the government has control of your health care, _we_ might win elections and end up in charge of women's health." Somehow, I don't see them using that tactic, though.)

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(By socialized medicine I understand you mean "free" (paid for by taxes) - sorry if I'm wrong)

Ireland doesn't have socialised medicine, only for those whose income falls below a certain level. I don't know why Plot Device didn't have to pay. Even if Ireland did have socialised medicine, I don't see any connection between the socialisation and human suffering.

Also, I can't be the only one who thinks telling this woman, "This is a Catholic country," was meant to convey, "This is a white country."

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I'm not thinking that.

87% of the Irish population identify as Catholic according to the last census. A further 7% identify as the other main Christian religions. The Catholic church controls 90% of the nation's primary schools.

He meant this is a Catholic country, which it is. Divorce only became legal in 1997. Contraception was also illegal until 1980 and was not available without a prescription until 1985.

As a Catholic country, the laws are made according to the teachings of the Catholic church which, don't forget, has effectively run the country ever since it became one.

CQuinlan said:

I wouldn't be so quick to call the doctors of the case negligent.

You have to remember that here, many doctors are afraid to preform an abortion for fear of losing their licence to practice and possible jail-time as abortions are still illegal. It may be a case that they were almost too afraid to approach her after she started asking for an abortion.

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Yup, I agree with this.

Also, the nut-jobs that were linked to earlier are mostly dismissed by most people here.

Legally, this should never have happened but there is nothing in place to protect doctors.

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And this

I would also ask that people do not equate this tragedy with our country's medical entirety.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

We are 19th. The U.S. is 37th. I don't know how it was 20 years ago but it's not the case now. We have one of the best education systems in the world and at the very top of that is medicine with only a few limited places being awarded to the very, very brightest students. (600 points for any of you familiar with the CAO point system we use for college places.)

Politicians are to blame for this, not doctors.

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I don't agree with this though. I wouldn't say the Irish medical system deserves to be that high. It's *rubbish*.

Zoombie said:

I have a sneaking suspicion that they might not have been paying a huge amount of attention to her condition because she was a dirty, evil slutwhore who was there to murder her baby, the cruel, heartless wench.

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No. As I have mentioned, the law is not fit for purpose and because of that this woman died.

Well done to Savita's husband, Praveen Halappanavar. I couldn't believe it when i heard THREE doctors from Galway hospital were going to be on the inquiry board. *headdesk*

In light of this, he refused to release her medical records and now (in last few hours), government has announced that three doctors have been removed.

http://www.herald.ie/news/savita-husband-unhappy-with-inquiry-team-3300715.html

Ireland is a very very small place (and only 2,000 or so medical senior staff here) - expecting independent inquiry with members of same hospital is crazy. If anything it should be international panel!