Buy books by AWers

 

Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler! Please read The Newbie Guide To Absolute Write

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: [Promotion] Writing ... Etc.

  1. #1
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    So. Oregon
    Posts
    13

    Post [Promotion] Writing ... Etc.

    I recently started a website where I spotlight new authors (like myself). If you have recently published a book (within the past 12 months), please visit my website (URL found in my profile) for more information.

    New authors need all the publicity they can get if they want to sell their books (this is especially true if you have self-published). This website is just one more avenue for promotion. At this time, there is no charge for the listing. If the site grows in popularity and gains a top spot on Google search, this may change.

    Stop by and say hello.

  2. #2
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,136
    I'll move this to Self Promotion, but the room mods there might well move it to Blogging.

  3. #3
    MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter AW Moderator Ari Meermans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Darkness to Light
    Posts
    10,076
    writernan,

    Your display site is brand new and you, if I understand correctly, eventually hope to charge authors for their listings. That being the case, I ask you the same questions I recently asked another new display site hopeful:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ari Meermans View Post
    I have a few quick questions before I determine the best place for your announcement:

    1. Since yours is a very new site and our writers are concerned (rightly) about being associated with anything that smacks of spam, can you explain your marketing plans to us?

    2. What measures, if any, do you have in place to verify authorship and/or authenticity of links provided?

    3. Will you be encouraging comments/reviews on the books displayed on your site and, if so, how would moderation of those comments work?

    Thanks,

    Ari
    You have four posts (including this one) after four years of membership. Those four posts do not constitute active participation in the community; but I will leave your thread up pending answers to the questions above.

    Btw, I also note that, while you ask members of the community to "stop by and say hello", you've closed your site to comments. I look forward to hearing from you within the next five days.

    Ari
    Resources for Promoting on AbsoluteWrite:


  4. #4
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    So. Oregon
    Posts
    13

    Response to your concerns

    I have had the writing-etc.com domain name since 1998. It was formerly used when I had my website copywriting business, which I closed at the end of 2007 to focus on writing my book.

    I give some personal history, as well as my online experience, on the "About" page but briefly, I have been involved with the internet for almost 15 years. I own and maintain four other websites (one being thewritingdream.com on which I offer writing tips and resources for aspiring authors), as well as a personal blog. One of these sites has been active since 2000. The other was started approximately 10 years ago.

    At this time, I do not plan on encouraging reviews but am allowing a 'comment' section on each author's page. All comments are moderated by me.

    I will personally verify authorship and links of prospective authors via various sources (bookstore sites, Google search, etc.).

    I hope this information assures you this is not a spam request.

    As for my infrequent postings, I have been very involved with writing my book, which includes nearly 200 references. I have spent nearly all of my time doing research when I was not writing.

    BTW, only the first page of the website was closed to comments. I felt that since it was mostly an explanatory page, comments would be unnecessary. I have since opened it for input from visitors.

    I will do the usual SEO work as well as promote the site via other means to increase visitors. In addition, I have found that listing a book title (and the name of the author) in as many places as possible throughout the internet increases exposure.

    I trust I have satisfactorily answered your concerns.

    Nan Yielding

  5. #5
    MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter AW Moderator Ari Meermans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Darkness to Light
    Posts
    10,076
    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    I hope this information assures you this is not a spam request.

    I will do the usual SEO work as well as promote the site via other means to increase visitors. In addition, I have found that listing a book title (and the name of the author) in as many places as possible throughout the internet increases exposure.

    I trust I have satisfactorily answered your concerns.

    Nan Yielding
    Bolding mine.

    Yes, Nan, you have addressed most of them. Thank you.

    Regarding the part of your post I placed in bold, the reference to spam was not about your post here; it was about the methods some sites use to market their services and asking for assurances for those writers who may not know you. As a writer yourself, you know how important a good reputation is in this business and that such assurances are necessary to protecting that reputation. It's just good business sense.

    Absolutely your own writing must take the priority spot in your available time and I wish you all the best with your book and with your site.

    Ari
    Resources for Promoting on AbsoluteWrite:


  6. #6
    writernan, I visited your website, The Writing Dream. While I certainly don't think you mean any harm, some of your advice could actually hurt new writers if they followed it. I made a comment as such, which I will copy here.

    From your site:
    Caveat: Creating a book that looks professional and is indistinguishable from a book published by a “real” publishing house is very difficult and requires a minimum investment of a few thousand dollars (when all was said and done, usually around $7500, which includes about $2,500 in marketing costs).
    My comment: Pardon me for saying so, but your caveat is simply inaccurate. Self-publishing, even for those who want really professional-looking books, does not have a required minimum investment. The monetary investment of the author is entirely dependent on what skills they already have and what skills they are willing to learn.

    Suggesting that the only way to have a professional book is to invest $7,500 or more in the project spreads a falsehood that makes new authors even more vulnerable to literary scams than they already are.

    Please verify the accuracy of your statements before handing out advice that can hurt writers.
    "An honest answer is like a warm hug." - Proverbs 24:26 (The Message)

    My short story collection, "The Poisoned City", is now available!

  7. #7
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    So. Oregon
    Posts
    13

    Accuracy

    While you are correct that a required minimum investment is not required for 'do-it-yourself' self-publishers, if they turn to one of the larger self-publishing companies to do the work for them, there can be some rather exorbitant fees. Perhaps not as much as when the self-publishing business was new, but they are still considerably more than when one uses a company like CreateSpace.

    As you suggested, it all depends on the author's expertise as to how 'professional' their self-published book will be. For those who have minimal skills and do not wish to expand their knowledge, the costs go up commensurately.

    Thanks for visiting my website. :-)

  8. #8
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,136
    Using those "self publishing companies" isn't self publishing, it's vanity publishing. The two are completely different.

  9. #9
    MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter AW Moderator Ari Meermans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Darkness to Light
    Posts
    10,076
    Moving to BR&BC. Hold on to your seats, folks.
    Resources for Promoting on AbsoluteWrite:


  10. #10
    Holding out for a Superhero... Sheryl Nantus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Brownsville, Pennsylvania. Or New Babbage, Second Life!
    Posts
    7,164
    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    While you are correct that a required minimum investment is not required for 'do-it-yourself' self-publishers, if they turn to one of the larger self-publishing companies to do the work for them, there can be some rather exorbitant fees. Perhaps not as much as when the self-publishing business was new, but they are still considerably more than when one uses a company like CreateSpace.

    As you suggested, it all depends on the author's expertise as to how 'professional' their self-published book will be. For those who have minimal skills and do not wish to expand their knowledge, the costs go up commensurately.

    Thanks for visiting my website. :-)
    What sources did you draw upon to create your website?

    Please and thank you!

  11. #11
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,136
    I note that your site is a display site, writernan. Such sites are so rarely helpful to the writers who put their work on them that I'd suggest that they're never actually helpful. They can, however, generate a fair amount in revenue from affiliate advertising for the people who set them up.

  12. #12
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    So. Oregon
    Posts
    13

    Vanity publishing

    I disagree. There are companies like iUniverse, AuthorHouse, Infinity, and others who are legitimate self-publishing companies. They offer all the 'perks' that go with a regular publishing house (see below) except the author pays for these services. The author maintains ownership of his/her work.

    A commercial publishing company purchases manuscripts from authors, and handles the cost of producing those manuscripts. They provide cover and interior design, typesetting, printing, marketing, distribution, etc. The author is not expected to pay any of these costs. The book is owned by the publisher.

    Vanity publishing companies offer printing for a fee. On rare occasions, their services include limited distribution. The book does not go through an approval or editorial process. Vanity presses will print anything for money.

  13. #13
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    So. Oregon
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheryl Nantus View Post
    What sources did you draw upon to create your website?
    I'm not sure what you're asking. I'm using the Wordpress platform if that is what you want to know.

  14. #14
    Holding out for a Superhero... Sheryl Nantus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Brownsville, Pennsylvania. Or New Babbage, Second Life!
    Posts
    7,164
    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    I disagree. There are companies like iUniverse, AuthorHouse, Infinity, and others who are legitimate self-publishing companies. They offer all the 'perks' that go with a regular publishing house (see below) except the author pays for these services. The author maintains ownership of his/her work.

    A commercial publishing company purchases manuscripts from authors, and handles the cost of producing those manuscripts. They provide cover and interior design, typesetting, printing, marketing, distribution, etc. The author is not expected to pay any of these costs. The book is owned by the publisher.

    Vanity publishing companies offer printing for a fee. On rare occasions, their services include limited distribution. The book does not go through an approval or editorial process. Vanity presses will print anything for money.
    You're so wrong on so many points that it's frightening.

    Again, where did you get your information from?

  15. #15
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,136
    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    I disagree. There are companies like iUniverse, AuthorHouse, Infinity, and others who are legitimate self-publishing companies. They offer all the 'perks' that go with a regular publishing house (see below) except the author pays for these services. The author maintains ownership of his/her work.

    A commercial publishing company purchases manuscripts from authors, and handles the cost of producing those manuscripts. They provide cover and interior design, typesetting, printing, marketing, distribution, etc. The author is not expected to pay any of these costs. The book is owned by the publisher.

    Vanity publishing companies offer printing for a fee. On rare occasions, their services include limited distribution. The book does not go through an approval or editorial process. Vanity presses will print anything for money.
    Nan, you're wrong.

    AuthorHouse and iUniverse are vanity presses. I don't know Infinity, so can't respond to that one.

    Neither AH nor iU offer anything much that trade publishing offers. They pretty much just take your money and print your book. If you pay extra, your work is edited but the editing is done to a very poor level (I've reviewed many books from these companies which have been through their editing service), and they don't have any real distribution, marketing or promotion in place.

    As the author doesn't control anything about the publishing process, apart from paying for it, they can't be said to have self published.

    I could go on, but as this is hugely off-topic for this thread I'll say that I disagree with just about everything you've said in this post and that you clearly don't understand much at all about how publishing works, and will leave it there.

  16. #16
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    So. Oregon
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    I note that your site is a display site, writernan. Such sites are so rarely helpful to the writers who put their work on them that I'd suggest that they're never actually helpful. They can, however, generate a fair amount in revenue from affiliate advertising for the people who set them up.
    In my experiences, SEO is all about the repetition of certain words and phrases. The more times the title of a book is mentioned on the internet, the better chance that author has of being noticed. Of course, each author must do his or her own marketing. I'm just trying to help things along with this website.

    Further, I'm not sure that I entirely agree with your comment about a "fair amount" of revenue from affiliate advertising. Having been an affiliate for many sites over the years, I would be more inclined to describe it as a "minimal amount." But then, I have never depended on such income so I didn't go to the same extent as some affiliates do to promote other people's products/services.

  17. #17
    Cultus Gopherus MacAllister Medievalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    An meodoheall monig dreama full
    Posts
    25,525
    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    I disagree. There are companies like iUniverse, AuthorHouse, Infinity, and others who are legitimate self-publishing companies. They offer all the 'perks' that go with a regular publishing house (see below) except the author pays for these services. The author maintains ownership of his/her work.
    You are absolutely flat-out wrong.

    These are all vanity presses.

    You are misusing standard terms in publishing.

    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    A commercial publishing company purchases manuscripts from authors, and handles the cost of producing those manuscripts. They provide cover and interior design, typesetting, printing, marketing, distribution, etc. The author is not expected to pay any of these costs. The book is owned by the publisher.
    Again, you are just plain wrong. The book is not owned by the publisher unless it is a work-for-hire written to contract in which the author specifically allocates all rights to the publisher.

    The reason copyright is called copyright is that the creator licenses a publisher specific rights to copy, distribute and sell the work.

    Those rights are limited. They are limited by time and are usually limited by specific venue and by a contractually stipulated set of circumstances, after which the rights revert.

    Frankly, I question the value of YADS or Yet Another Display Site for anyone but the person who creates and controls the site.

    * Publishers, editors, and agents do not follow display sites looking for books.

    * Readers do not follow display sites looking for books to buy.

    * Authors are the audience for display sites.

    * If any display site served any value to authors, it would be one associated with a publisher—and the conflict of interest and other problems represented by sites like Authonomy are troubling.

    * Display sites benefit the owner/site creator because they provide free actual content that can potentially increase the page rank of the site—and hence ad revenue.
    Last edited by Medievalist; 11-02-2012 at 03:46 AM.

    AW Admin: This account is rarely active
    About.Me
    AWers On Twitter
    Lisa L. Spangenberg
    My opinions are my own. | Who else would want them?

  18. #18
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,136
    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    In my experiences, SEO is all about the repetition of certain words and phrases. The more times the title of a book is mentioned on the internet, the better chance that author has of being noticed. Of course, each author must do his or her own marketing. I'm just trying to help things along with this website.

    Further, I'm not sure that I entirely agree with your comment about a "fair amount" of revenue from affiliate advertising. Having been an affiliate for many sites over the years, I would be more inclined to describe it as a "minimal amount." But then, I have never depended on such income so I didn't go to the same extent as some affiliates do to promote other people's products/services.
    SEO doesn't sell books. Reviews and personal recommendations do.

    The only way someone will find a book on your site thanks to SEO is if they search for a string of words which is specific to that book's listing on your site. People don't do that when they're looking for a good read: they look on Amazon, or in their local bookshop, or they read reviews or talk to their friends. They don't make random Googles hoping to find a display site.

    As for agents or editors using your site to find new writers to sign: why would they, when they already receive more submissions each day than they can easily cope with?

    Sorry, Nan. Your heart might be in the right place but this site of yours isn't going to help any writers. It just isn't.

  19. #19
    Cultus Gopherus MacAllister Medievalist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    An meodoheall monig dreama full
    Posts
    25,525
    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    In my experiences, SEO is all about the repetition of certain words and phrases. The more times the title of a book is mentioned on the internet, the better chance that author has of being noticed. Of course, each author must do his or her own marketing. I'm just trying to help things along with this website.
    Yeah, you're wrong about SEO as well.

    SEO based on keywords and keyword stuffing and link pimping doesn't work, and it's generally classified as black hat seo.

    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    Further, I'm not sure that I entirely agree with your comment about a "fair amount" of revenue from affiliate advertising. Having been an affiliate for many sites over the years, I would be more inclined to describe it as a "minimal amount." .
    Yeah, that's because you're doin' it rong, and Google's Panda rollouts are deliberately designed to punitively damage the kind of thing you're talking about.

    AW Admin: This account is rarely active
    About.Me
    AWers On Twitter
    Lisa L. Spangenberg
    My opinions are my own. | Who else would want them?

  20. #20
    Wilde about Oscar aliceshortcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Oop North
    Posts
    1,581
    Quote Originally Posted by writernan View Post
    There are companies like iUniverse, AuthorHouse, Infinity, and others who are legitimate self-publishing companies. They offer all the 'perks' that go with a regular publishing house (see below) except the author pays for these services. The author maintains ownership of his/her work.
    It's my understanding that if the author doesn't own the ISBN they aren't self-publishing.

  21. #21
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,136
    That's true, Alice. It's another pointer that when you use AuthorHouse et al, you're vanity publishing. Along with all the other things.

  22. #22
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    So. Oregon
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    Nan, you're wrong.

    I disagree with just about everything you've said in this post and that you clearly don't understand much at all about how publishing works, and will leave it there.
    I obtained some of my information from this website: http://www.writing-world.com/publish/subsidy.shtml.

    This writer may or may not be correct, but what she has written has been my understanding for several years.

  23. #23
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,136
    Nan, I don't care where you got your information from: it's wrong. I'm sorry. But you don't know what you're talking about, on several levels, and that means that I have no faith at all in your website.

  24. #24
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    So. Oregon
    Posts
    13
    Wow, you guys are really putting me through the wringer!

    All I set out to do when I established this website was help other new authors promote their work by giving them exposure. I never intended the site to be a landing place for agents or editors. Nor did I expect potential readers to come to my site to 'buy' any of the books. Yes, I provide a link to Amazon, but it's more of a convenience than a way of making money (especially since Amazon payments are VERY small).

    BTW, I don't appreciate being told how 'wrong' I am about what SEO is. I've been on the internet for over 15 years. I have operated several successful websites during this time (translated, they made money) and still have two that are quite profitable. It wasn't just by 'luck' that I received visitors (and sales). It was through SEO efforts. And, for the record, I have NEVER used black hat methods.

    I appreciate everyone's input, but I don't feel the need to defend myself any further. I need to get back to promoting and marketing my own book -- and working on my websites.

  25. #25
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In chaos
    Posts
    21,136
    The thing is, Nan, I've seen many display sites like yours over the years: none have really helped any writers in any significant way.

    The exposure gained from display sites doesn't do anything for writers (and if you didn't expect your site to introduce writers to agents or editors, or to result in sales, what did you think that exposure would achieve?).

    I appreciate that this must be difficult for you to hear: but you've been a member here for four years. You must know that we do our best to make sure writers understand the full implications of what they're getting into, no matter what it is. AW wouldn't be such a valuable resource if we minced our words.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Custom Search