My first experience with an Ebook Publisher

pattyjansen · Dec 25, 2012

Old Hack said:
It's best to do that research before you submit, remember, so that you don't waste your time or clog up the slush pile of a press you'd rather not publish with.

True, but in the case you haven't done this, do it before you sign. Back when I was offered this contract, I simply had no idea what sort of things would be in a contract and it didn't occur to me that very small publishers wouldn't support the work they published themselves. I simply assumed that it was a publisher's job to market and get reviews.

Innocent, I know, but I think a lot of people start out that way.

rac · Dec 25, 2012

Kingson said:
I get it. There is no excuse for this behavior. But let me see what they say regarding why this happened and then I'll report the publisher to a moderator who can then do what they do.

I have never heard of a legitimate, professional publisher rearranging sentences, taking out adjectives, etc. without giving the writer a proof to approve the changes before publication. You seem to be backing away from doing the right thing by telling the moderator who your publisher is. If it happened to you, it will happen to others. What are you afraid of?

gingerwoman · Dec 26, 2012

Kingson said:
Initially, I was excited to be offered a contract with an E-book publisher. I thought I'd give it a try since my books were not getting much traction on their own.

Kingson Random House now has an epub line looking for crime/mystery if you're interested. You can submit without an agent. Check my blog for the link. (Blog link is in my signature.)

Kingson · Dec 27, 2012

rac said:
I have never heard of a legitimate, professional publisher rearranging sentences, taking out adjectives, etc. without giving the writer a proof to approve the changes before publication. You seem to be backing away from doing the right thing by telling the moderator who your publisher is. If it happened to you, it will happen to others. What are you afraid of?

I know they will let anyone out of a contract whenever they want, which is what they did for me. This policy has been stated by the publisher in several places and he didn't hesitate to set me free. I don't know if my experience was an aberration from this publisher or business-as-usual. So before I'm willing to drag someone's name through the mud, I want to make damn sure they deserve it, and as of this moment, I'm not comfortable doing that.

Kingson · Dec 27, 2012

gingerwoman said:
Kingson Random House now has an epub line looking for crime/mystery if you're interested. You can submit without an agent. Check my blog for the link. (Blog link is in my signature.)

Awesome! Thanks much!

J.L. Duncan · Feb 13, 2013

Interesting and informative thead.

I haven’t published anything myself but I have a friend who has a related some difficulty with regular a publisher. While I’m sure some of us would like to know “who” this publisher is-I think discretion is wise.
I wish you luck-

Kingson · Feb 16, 2013

Thanks. Just got a "revise and resubmit" from Random House.

PortableHal · Feb 18, 2013

Kingson said:
Thanks. Just got a "revise and resubmit" from Random House.

That's terrific, Marc. Best of luck!

Edit (following another look at Random House's e-line): Or is it? I know you've done some investigation on this but is this a route you'd like to go?

gingerwoman · Feb 18, 2013

Kingson said:
Thanks. Just got a "revise and resubmit" from Random House.

Oh Wow just saw this that's awesome! I mean sure beats the hell out of a form rejection!

PortableHal said:
That's terrific, Marc. Best of luck!

Edit (following another look at Random House's e-line): Or is it? I know you've done some investigation on this but is this a route you'd like to go?

I think given the other experiences he's had it seems worth trying? Probably the royalty rates are low but the editing and distribution will be topnotch and the publicity okish--- is my guess. Well actually my guess is that the only promotion they will do is on their website but I feel the wide distribution is a kind of promotion in itself since your book will probably appear everywhere ebooks are sold and so the cover will be visable all over the net if Random House Digital is as good at that as Samhain and one would assume they would be.

I think good distribution is nothing to sneeze at. Samhain sure know how to make sure my book is available pretty much everywhere online which I think is pretty cool though I've yet to get third party on my royalty statements so I don't know if and where people have bought it other than the Samhain website and Amazon yet. I'll know in a month or two. I guess some people know how to organize distribution for their indie ebooks themselves but I wouldn't have a clue.

As for reviews I know Samhain sent my book out for review to the big places, but none of the places they sent it to chose to pick it up they chose other Samhain books so I had no reviews when the book came out and have since then managed to scrape up three blog reviews for myself. It's not easy anymore. Too many books out there.

Kingson · Feb 20, 2013

PortableHal said:
That's terrific, Marc. Best of luck!

Edit (following another look at Random House's e-line): Or is it? I know you've done some investigation on this but is this a route you'd like to go?

Thanks Renee. Yes, I'm pretty zeroed in on Ebooks. It seems to be the most logical/likely way for me to break in. I'm not getting any younger, after all.

Kingson · Feb 20, 2013

gingerwoman said:
Oh Wow just saw this that's awesome! I mean sure beats the hell out of a form rejection!

I think given the other experiences he's had it seems worth trying? Probably the royalty rates are low but the editing and distribution will be topnotch and the publicity okish--- is my guess. Well actually my guess is that the only promotion they will do is on their website but I feel the wide distribution is a kind of promotion in itself since your book will probably appear everywhere ebooks are sold and so the cover will be visable all over the net if Random House Digital is as good at that as Samhain and one would assume they would be.

I think good distribution is nothing to sneeze at. Samhain sure know how to make sure my book is available pretty much everywhere online which I think is pretty cool though I've yet to get third party on my royalty statements so I don't know if and where people have bought it other than the Samhain website and Amazon yet. I'll know in a month or two. I guess some people know how to organize distribution for their indie ebooks themselves but I wouldn't have a clue.

As for reviews I know Samhain sent my book out for review to the big places, but none of the places they sent it to chose to pick it up they chose other Samhain books so I had no reviews when the book came out and have since then managed to scrape up three blog reviews for myself. It's not easy anymore. Too many books out there.

Thank you Lisa! I owe you a special "thank you" since you were the one who brought Random House's new imprint to may attention.

No doubt the royalty rates will be lower but I agree that the editing and promotion should be top notch or certainly more extensive and carrying a "legitimacy" far above anything my work has been associated with. At this point, I'd have to be crazy to say no to Random House (assuming they like my revision).

gingerwoman · Mar 8, 2013

I'm sorry you better check the bewares thread on here about these lines. More news has come to light on them and it doesn't sound great. In fact I'm shocked because none of the other NY digital imprints I'd read about are doing these things. I guess I should have been more suspicious that there was no talk of terms on Random House's submission page for these lines.
RWA has asked Random House to amend their contract. I would suggest trying to negotiate some of the terms with them if you get a contract offer. :-(

Old Hack · Mar 8, 2013

Here's a link to the BR&BC thread on Random House's new e-book imprints.

At this point, I wouldn't even consider submitting to these imprints. The contract terms are dreadful. Several people have blogged about it, but Writer Beware's blog post about it is the best I've read.

gingerwoman · Mar 8, 2013

Old Hack said:
Here's a link to the BR&BC thread on Random House's new e-book imprints.

At this point, I wouldn't even consider submitting to these imprints. The contract terms are dreadful. Several people have blogged about it, but Writer Beware's blog post about it is the best I've read.

I made the rash assumption the terms would be like the other NY digital first imprints like Avon Impulse.
Another publisher you could try Kingson is Harlequin Digital First. They are willing to look at mystery novels. http://www.harlequin.com/articlepage.html?articleId=1734&chapter=0

Kingson · Mar 9, 2013

gingerwoman said:
I made the rash assumption the terms would be like the other NY digital first imprints like Avon Impulse. The royalty rates for Avon Impulse but they don't take out all these production costs from earning that's so wrong.
Another publisher you could try Kingson is Harlequin Digital First. They are willing to look at mystery novels. http://www.harlequin.com/articlepage.html?articleId=1734&chapter=0

Wow. I did get a revise and resubmit from RH. I just sent the revision back. The idea of signing a book's life away..... Feeling kind of sick. I'm an unknown writer looking for a break. Low hanging fruit for a predatory corporation. I'm sure they're betting on folks like me to sell their souls just to say RH is their publisher. I'll check out Harlequin, I just hope they don't require a romance back story. Isn't Carina part of Harlequin and also taking mysteries? Why the double coverage? Thanks Gingerwoman.

Old Hack · Mar 9, 2013

gingerwoman said:
I made the rash assumption the terms would be like the other NY digital first imprints like Avon Impulse.

Been there, done that. I try to remember to always check but sometimes things do slip past me. Still, it's always a learning experience, right?

Kingson said:
Wow. I did get a revise and resubmit from RH. I just sent the revision back. The idea of signing a book's life away..... Feeling kind of sick. I'm an unknown writer looking for a break. Low hanging fruit for a predatory corporation. I'm sure they're betting on folks like me to sell their souls just to say RH is their publisher. I'll check out Harlequin, I just hope they don't require a romance back story. Isn't Carina part of Harlequin and also taking mysteries? Why the double coverage? Thanks Gingerwoman.

Kingson, please read the thread I linked to earlier and pay particular attention to Victoria Strauss's comments, such as this one.

Yes, the contract is troublesome: but it's negotiable; and it's not a scam. There are publishers out there which are far worse.

If you signed with them you wouldn't be "signing [your] book's life away" unless you failed to negotiate a decent reversion clause.

What I find more worrying about this is the business model the contract supports, and not the contract itself.

I suspect the problems which have been highlighted are partly down to carelessness on the publisher's part: they've drafted a sloppy contract. But expecting the writer to shoulder the risk? That's not good.

gingerwoman · Mar 10, 2013

Kingson said:
Wow. I did get a revise and resubmit from RH. I just sent the revision back. The idea of signing a book's life away..... Feeling kind of sick. I'm an unknown writer looking for a break. Low hanging fruit for a predatory corporation. I'm sure they're betting on folks like me to sell their souls just to say RH is their publisher. I'll check out Harlequin, I just hope they don't require a romance back story. Isn't Carina part of Harlequin and also taking mysteries? Why the double coverage? Thanks Gingerwoman.

No Harlequin Digital First are looking for a lot of genres without any romance subplots. No one I know knows why the "double coverage." I've heard the terms are 30% net. I haven't heard of any of these horrific sub clauses that RH are suggesting.
Hopefully their R and R has helped you tighten your book Kingson. And there should be room to negotiate this terrible contract.

gingerwoman · Mar 10, 2013

Old Hack said:
Been there, done that. I try to remember to always check but sometimes things do slip past me. Still, it's always a learning experience, right?

Kingson, please read the thread I linked to earlier and pay particular attention to Victoria Strauss's comments, such as this one.

Yes, the contract is troublesome: but it's negotiable; and it's not a scam. There are publishers out there which are far worse.

If you signed with them you wouldn't be "signing [your] book's life away" unless you failed to negotiate a decent reversion clause.

What I find more worrying about this is the business model the contract supports, and not the contract itself.

I suspect the problems which have been highlighted are partly down to carelessness on the publisher's part: they've drafted a sloppy contract.

I suspect it's lawyers thinking they are being clever.

Kingson · Mar 10, 2013

Old Hack said:
Been there, done that. I try to remember to always check but sometimes things do slip past me. Still, it's always a learning experience, right?

Kingson, please read the thread I linked to earlier and pay particular attention to Victoria Strauss's comments, such as this one.

Yes, the contract is troublesome: but it's negotiable; and it's not a scam. There are publishers out there which are far worse.

If you signed with them you wouldn't be "signing [your] book's life away" unless you failed to negotiate a decent reversion clause.

What I find more worrying about this is the business model the contract supports, and not the contract itself.

I suspect the problems which have been highlighted are partly down to carelessness on the publisher's part: they've drafted a sloppy contract. But expecting the writer to shoulder the risk? That's not good.

I read Victoria's comment. Thanks for the insight.

Kingson · Mar 10, 2013

gingerwoman said:
No Harlequin Digital First are looking for a lot of genres without any romance subplots. No one I know knows why the "double coverage." I've heard the terms are 30% net. I haven't heard of any of these horrific sub clauses that RH are suggesting.
Hopefully their R and R has helped you tighten your book Kingson. And there should be room to negotiate this terrible contract.

Thanks Gingerwoman. I'm not getting my hopes up regarding RH wanting to take it. I did tighten the book, it's definitely a better book, but I have a feeling the editor (Randall Klein) wants a book different than the one I wrote. But I like the one I wrote and I know it's a winner. I think houses like RH hold unknown writers to ridiculously high standards that would never be considered of writers with name recognition. Just my opinion.

gingerwoman · Mar 13, 2013

In response to all the bad publicity Random House has made some adjustments to their contract.
http://www.atrandom.com/eoriginals/index.php

I must say the PR speak under the "what's in it for authors" is quite meaningless.

thenewbie · Mar 24, 2013

veinglory said:
I've been warned about the color "sage" and the tone F-sharp. You need to avoid these too.

Agree, agree, agree!

Old Hack · Mar 24, 2013

gingerwoman said:
In response to all the bad publicity Random House has made some adjustments to their contract.
http://www.atrandom.com/eoriginals/index.php

I must say the PR speak under the "what's in it for authors" is quite meaningless.

I just read it, and it made me feel quite queasy. It reminds me of vanity-publisher-speak. Weaselly and salesmanny.

Writers deserve better, and publishers shouldn't want to exploit them in this way. I am not at all happy.

gingerwoman · Jun 6, 2013

Congrats Kingson on your new three book deal with RH!

dondomat · Jun 6, 2013

Congratulations, congratulations, congratulations! With the new terms of RH's digital imprints, this is suddenly something worth opening champagne over. Super.

And you, Gingerwoman, thanks for the Harlequin list - I had no idea of this overlap. I'll pounce on it right away. So now they have this, and Carina, and Carina UK. Baffling. Convenient, but baffling.

My first experience with an Ebook Publisher

pattyjansen

rac

gingerwoman

Kingson

Kingson

J.L. Duncan

Kingson

PortableHal

Not-so-new

gingerwoman

Kingson

Kingson

gingerwoman

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

gingerwoman

Kingson

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

gingerwoman

gingerwoman

Kingson

Kingson

gingerwoman

thenewbie

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

gingerwoman

dondomat