Victoria Foyt's novel coming under fire...

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Kitty27

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I've taken a deep breath and a shot of gin.

I am now somewhat calm.Forgive me for going in on Ms.Foyt. My emotions got that strong.

This book is disheartening to me. It just is. It is annoying beyond all heck to see POC's portrayed in such a way. Coal black is an insult in the South. It is NOT even said by Black people because it is often the rallying cry of colorists and used to hurt,especially towards Black women.
A very fine line has to be walked when describing skin tone,especially for Black characters. Dark or liquorice might STILL offend because and I am going to be blunt here,it comes from a white author,even though no such thing was intended. I could say it and would catch holy hell from some and I'm Black. But I am caramel colored so it would be interpreted as colorism from me because I'm lighter.

I know some of y'all are like well,damn. Blacks and our skin color politics can make a person's head hurt.

If you aren't from the US or the South,coal black wouldn't seem like a slur. But trust me,it is and would anger many. I politely suggest ebony as an acceptable alternative for anyone wanting to describe a character's skin tone. Especially White writers. Ebony is the safest route for y'all and don't EVER go on about it! Just write and keep it moving. That's my advice for the day.

As for this book,I hope it will quietly die away and the like never be seen again. It takes a very skilled and most importantly,respectful writer who has also done their research to handle this kind of subject matter. It is entirely too incendiary and hurtful to be handled in such a cavalier manner.
 

fireluxlou

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Wow I was on a reading kick yesterday so didn't comment but Victoria Foyt has voiced her word on the controversy around her book. I'm going to copy and paste the entire thing, in case anyone can't see it and in case she deletes it, because WOW:

Judging A Book By Its Cover Gives Birth To Racism

By Victoria Foyt

I would like to address the recent accusations of racism that have been aimed at my YA novel, Revealing Eden, Save The Pearls Part One.

Some have taken offense at the cover photo on the dust jacket of a blond, blue-eyed girl with her white face half covered in dark. Without reading the novel or understanding the premise, some believe that the photo shows the girl in “blackface.” Nothing could be further from the truth.
<snip>

http://www.facebook.com/SaveThePearls/posts/444346182255531
 
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missesdash

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Seriously? You don't think that using the word "coal" to describe one set of people and using "pearl" to describe another set of people is a problem? It's an implied insult.

not what I said.

It doesn't matter if it wasn't previously used as a racial or ethnic slur. And the argument that one person wasn't offended by it when a cousin's sister's aunt's next door neighbor wasn't offended by it is invalid as well as insensitive.

Uh. It does if my discussion was about whether or not it's a previously used ethnic slur....

Gotta ask you the reverse question to play devil's advocate here.

Do you feel the same need to be specific when it comes to describing a white character's skin tone?

I don't need to. White is the default. I write minimally in that I only note that which is notable. Stating a character with red hair and green eyes has white skin is not notable. If she has deep bronze skin, that is certainly notable. If I had a white character with tightly curled black hair, I'd describe her skin color. That said, I write YA, so any non-white character's description is indeed notable.

I'm also not opposed to other indicators. That, to me, is part of a complete character profile. So ethnic last names, discussions of culture, all of that goes in as well. Ethnicity and culture aren't always simple (especially since I tend to write mixed race characters).To give a complete and thorough understanding, it sometimes requires a little more than black hair and the last name "Chang."

ETA: LOL at her reply. At least she apologized OH WAIT.
 
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meowzbark

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not what I said.



Uh. It does if my discussion was about whether or not it's a previously used ethnic slur....



I don't need to. White is the default. I write minimally in that I only note that which is notable. Stating a character with red hair and green eyes has white skin is not notable. If she has deep bronze skin, that is certainly notable. If I had a white character with tightly curled black hair, I'd describe her skin color. That said, I write YA, so any non-white character's description is indeed notable.

I'm also not opposed to other indicators. That, to me, is part of a complete character profile. So ethnic last names, discussions of culture, all of that goes in as well. Ethnicity and culture aren't always simple (especially since I tend to write mixed race characters).To give a complete and thorough understanding, it sometimes requires a little more than black hair and the last name "Chang."

I would say to mention skin tone if its something the POV character would notice. If a story is based in China, then "white" skin would be notable. If its based in the hills of West Virginia, then "white" skin wouldn't be noticed.
 

Libbie

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Kitty, I have also felt really riled up over this book since I learned about it (I mean, it de-lurked me after months of rader silence on AW!) and can't seem to get over my dismay. It really got to me, too, and I have no idea what it's like to face generations and generations of cultural discrimination. I keep thinking about it and feeling profoundly disturbed.

I'm a person who has very fair skin, who is, in fact, at a much higher risk than the average fair-skinned person for skin cancer, due to a number of factors. The author's explanation about melanin/skin cancer doesn't explain away the disturbing undertones I seem to detect in this book. I wear protective clothing whenever I'm in the sun and I haven't burned in years, despite being very active in the outdoors. It's hard to swallow a sci-fi society that can genetically engineer humans to change into "beasts" but can't master a tight-weave breathable fabric that can keep UV rays out, even with a depleted ozone. I can do that now with linen and cotton.
 

missesdash

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@Libbie yeah the fact that she continually says this is a very plausible scenario is kind of maddening.
 

aruna

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And if you ask if all these reviewers are white then consider that you have a racist point of view.
Um, sorry, no, Ms Foyd. You're applying your White Privilege blinkers again. When we ask if any of your beta-readers or reviewers were POC, it's because we believe that White Privilege just might make a person blind for certain aspects of a story that are troubling and disrespectful, and actually reinforce racist attitudes.
 
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Cyia

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Kohl's
is the first thing that pops up in my head...and on Google.

Kohl is an eyeliner, and one of the oldest cosmetics yet known. It's used today (more often as a color than as actual kohl), but is usually, historically associated with the queens of Egypt and "kohl-rimmed" eyes like the Eye of Horus with the thick line around the eye.

Kohl's is a department store that sells kohl eyeliner in its cosmetics dept. :D


And as for this (from the quoted blog entry upthread):
“The Heat” (basically, skin cancer)
From savethepearls.com:

The Heat is caused by deadly, toxic levels of solar radiation. Its effects are horrific, resulting in a painful, tortuous death—imagine burning alive, from the inside out, for a week or two.
This is not "basically skin cancer." Skin cancer doesn't burn someone alive from the inside out in a week or two.


ETA:

Um, have you ever actually handled coal? It is very easily crushed to dust.

Dust that, if inhaled, is toxic and causes horrific medical conditions. Check out coal-mining country and how not-healthy most of the miners are.
 

Dani

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Why are whites called Pearls, while blacks are called Coals? Imagine a gritty, post-apocalyptic world where all that matters is survival. What good will a pearl do you when luxury items have no use? Coal has energy, fire, and real value. It is durable and strong, not easily crushed like a pearl. Pearl is a pejorative term here. Coals are admired. Coals oppress Pearls because they fear that those with light skin will add to a population unable to survive The Heat, and drain meager resources.

I call b.s. on this. If coal was a "positive" term, than why in the first chapter does Eden hurl it at one of them like this "Take your hands off me, you Coal!" And then the character gasps like she just called someone the "n" word.

Eden also constantly refers to the ruling class as "them". Turning up her nose and calling a coworker "haughty" (another word for "uppity"). Does this sound like someone who admires and is in awe of the beauty of that ruling class that she so very much wants to be like?
 

Wisteria Vine

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The use of blackface presents a mockery or travesty of African Americans’ lives. Eden Newman wishes to “Great Earth” that she had dark skin, not because she wants to make fun of people with dark skin, but because she admires their status and is jealous of the genetic advantage they offer against “The Heat.”

Huh?
 

evilrooster

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Pearl is a pejorative term here. Coals are admired.
Not to your readers.

Bingo.

Fiction, particularly speculative fiction, must deal with the tension between trying to tell a story in the voice and reality of the characters and trying to tell it in a way that its real-world readers will understand it.

You can't make up a world whose details are offensive in actual reality, and then defend it on the basis of its internal logic. Or rather, you certainly can, but until your readers are also from that reality, you have to make it also work in this society.

I once came up with a society where it made internal sense to reuse the bodies of the dead for leather and rawhide. Lots of plot and culture falls out of this. There could be a tradition of getting tattoos so that when your body is reused, your family can remember you by making something they use a lot from that bit of skin.

Reader reaction: eeeeeeeew.

So you know what? Even if it is a great idea, even if it's consistent and sensible and could be really useful in storytelling, I can't use it. Because the people reading the story matter too, and in their (our) culture, this is not OK.

 

aruna

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Slight derail: I've been checking out the reviews for Noughts and Crosses and think I wil give it a try -- I actually have this book somewhere, as it belonged to my daughter and was on my booksehlf or years -- sadly in storage somewhere now!

But I'm curious -- in the USA, the book's title is changed to Naughts and Crosses. Thought the meaning of "naughts" is certainly clear -- it kind of loses pn snappiness. Don't you guys play the game noughts and crosses? I know you say zero instead of nought, but don't you know the word? I wonder why the US publisher changed it?

Whatever - one good thing to come out of this is that she (Marjorie Blackman) will probably make some good sales from this, especially is she is not so well known in the USA.
 

Cyia

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You'd be hard pressed to find anyone over here who knows "nought" means zero. Some older servicemen used it, I think, or maybe it's generational. (The person I'm thinking of was a serviceman sixty years ago.) At best most would likely think you meant "naughty," as in misbehaving.
 

Libbie

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Eden also constantly refers to the ruling class as "them". Turning up her nose and calling a coworker "haughty" (another word for "uppity"). Does this sound like someone who admires and is in awe of the beauty of that ruling class that she so very much wants to be like?

Exactly what I was thinking. If whites were so oppressed in this world she's made, why does her white character feel comfortable with commanding somebody from the ruling class to get her hands off her? And why doesn't she suffer any punishment for doing that? And why is she using a racial term to insult a member of the ruling class? And the part I quoted above. I don't think her explanations are meshing with the way readers are taking the book.

This could have been thought out better before she self-published it.

To say the least.
 

Anninyn

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I was discussing this with a follower of mine on twitter the other day. It made me feel really uncomfortable, the whole thing. I said then, and I'll say now, that changing around the opressed group with the opressors could shock people into realisation - but only in skilled hands. This feels a lot more like 'Evil black people want to rule white people' and it makes me feel really really squicky.
 
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Cyia

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This could have been thought out better before she self-published it.

To say the least.

However, it's a pretty good illustration of what happens when a writer has a book, decides it's too controversial for mainstream publishing rather than realizing insensitivity/ignorance =/= controversy, and decides to put the book out as is.
 

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Don't you guys play the game noughts and crosses? I know you say zero instead of nought, but don't you know the word? I wonder why the US publisher changed it?

It's a dialect reserve, that is, an archaic word preserved in limited use in some dialects, and typically, only the older generations.
 

thothguard51

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Just my opinion, but it seems like very few self published authors really sit down and think about the value of their work as much as they do about where they can spam their book links, blog reviews and what their amazon ranking is...

I am still trying to figure out the award she won. I take it there were no judges who were also PoC...
 

Libbie

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Yeah, I can see your point. I guess it's all well and good to figure out a viral marketing campaign, but as we see here it can bite your career in the ass if you're not promoting a product that's worth promotion...whether it's due to the author's inherent ignorance or the fact that the book just plain sucks.

I self-published one book (and will probably self-publish some more; it's been an overall positive experience for me) and I've never even bothered to look at my book's Amazon rankings. I don't care. I don't give a crap what my rankings are; it's not a competition to me. I care about what my readers think, and that's slowly paying off for me. A good book trumps a bunch of spam. Or it should, in a universe that has any justice.

Not that I think this universe has any justice.
 
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