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Thread: Victoria Foyt's novel coming under fire...

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
    You can also add the "required" mating to the list of creepiness. The upper limit of 18 is bad enough, but if you follow the requirement out, you've got a society based solely on procreation, where unmatched teens who refuse to link up with a hetero partner are tossed out of the civilization. And from the "mate rate" profiles, it seems that these lifetime hook-ups are with strangers.

    (And that cover is seriously disturbing in context. The eyes belong to a green-eyed jungle cat, and I haven't seen any mention of shape-shifting among any tier of this society, which means the only explanation is that they're supposed to represent the male MC.)
    There is this thing in the books where the poc become 'beasts' (as she calls them) to adapt to The Heat through a kind of genetic mutuation done by the MC's dad. Hence the author calling it a romantic 'beauty and the beast story' and he becomes like half panther or something and she also becomes half animal at the end.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    There is this thing in the books where the poc become 'beasts' (as she calls them) to adapt to The Heat through a kind of genetic mutuation done by the MC's dad. Hence the author calling it a romantic 'beauty and the beast story' and he becomes like half panther or something and she also becomes half animal at the end.
    I was wondering what the panther on the cover was all about.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    There is this thing in the books where the poc become 'beasts' (as she calls them) to adapt to The Heat through a kind of genetic mutuation done by the MC's dad. Hence the author calling it a romantic 'beauty and the beast story' and he becomes like half panther or something and she also becomes half animal at the end.

    *facepalm*

    Allusions of bestiality. Brilliant. She has not done her 'negative racial stereotypes' research at all, has she?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by crunchyblanket View Post
    *facepalm*

    Allusions of bestiality. Brilliant. She has not done her 'negative racial stereotypes' research at all, has she?
    No see... like she says she is 'colour blind' she doesn't see race, you see. And that she hopes for a caramel coloured future and that she once was called a slur because of her frizzy hair, so she understands racism. And lol she made an advert for her blackface make up called 'midnight luster'.

    I am facepalming all over the place Crunchy!

  5. #30
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    OMG. Y'all have said it all, I think. What is it about coal and beasts that remain in the collective unconscious of racists? It makes me nauseous that she didn't even see it and that's the focus of her work.

    She's basically just saying the fears out loud of those racists who think they need to fear being the minority in places like the US. That part is very sad and misguided at best.

    It sounds foul. I really don't want a peek into minds like hers must be.
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  6. #31
    Rewriting My Destiny Cyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    There is this thing in the books where the poc become 'beasts' (as she calls them) to adapt to The Heat through a kind of genetic mutuation done by the MC's dad. .
    So that sort of negates her original claim that it's the melanin that makes darker skinned people the ones who survive. It was genetic mutation... ugh, this book is making less and less sense.

    (Do you mean the female MC's dad? Because if it is, that's ANOTHER WHOLE OTHER dimension of creepiness.)

    And why is "The Heat" capitalized? Isn't it just solar radiation minus the ozone layer or something. Please tell me that's what it means and not something tied to the mating rituals in the book. Please.

    I'm going to need some serious brain bleach for this, aren't I?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
    So that sort of negates her original claim that it's the melanin that makes darker skinned people the ones who survive. It was genetic mutation... ugh, this book is making less and less sense.

    (Do you mean the female MC's dad? Because if it is, that's ANOTHER WHOLE OTHER dimension of creepiness.)

    And why is "The Heat" capitalized? Isn't it just solar radiation minus the ozone layer or something. Please tell me that's what it means and not something tied to the mating rituals in the book. Please.

    I'm going to need some serious brain bleach for this, aren't I?
    Yea the female MC's dad. It's on the savethepeals website somewhere that her dad is also white but he is favoured because he's a scientist who does these mutations or something. Idk it's so confusing.

    The Heat is capitalised because that's what they call the atmosphere in the book? I don't even know.

    I don't even want to look it up but I probably will in a minute for you, once I've finished my lunch.

  8. #33
    Rewriting My Destiny Cyia's Avatar
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    It's not worth it, fire. You can't make sense out of a senseless situation.

  9. #34
    the Juggernaut of Imperfection crunchyblanket's Avatar
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    I just went to the website. I'm having one of those 'ashamed to be white' moments.

  10. #35
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    Ok I looked it up because I was curious this is direct from the source so take from it what you will.

    She capitalises The Heat and she's talking about the atmosphere on the surface not the mating I think.

    http://www.savethepearls.com/avoid-t...ic-apocalypse/
    What you can do is to try to help save the Pearls and do your personal best to avoid the havoc that exposure to the Heat can cause. You won’t find answers or guidelines to follow in any post apocalyptic books or films; fiction will not save you. What will save you is one basic tenet—STAY INDOORS AT ALL TIMES.

    But how will you get supplies when you run out or the latest copies of that series of fantasy romance novels you’ve been dying to read? Stock piling and abstinence, my Pearl friends. No supplies or books, not even Revealing Eden, are worth the wrath of the Heat.

    In addition to avoiding the outside world, you should apply Midnight Luster every single day. I strongly suggest applying several coats, and re-applying later in the day if it starts to wear off. Take your time and put it on carefully so you can avoid a streaky looking finish. Several coats will make you look more Coal-like and therefore much more attractive. If you’re looking for a mate or are under the delusion that you can find the kind of love you read about in fantasy romance novels, than Midnight Luster is an absolute must. As soon as I apply it, I feel better and definitely look more appealing.

    Another good rule to follow is to keep physical activity to a minimum. Getting overheated can make you more susceptible to those who already have the Heat but may not yet be showing symptoms. If you do engage in any sort of physical activity, thoroughly re-apply Midnight Luster.

    Last but not least, if you truly want to avoid a romantic apocalypse and not suffer an early demise, do not make physical contact with anyone who has the Heat. If you see someone showing any of the signs, RUN like there’s no tomorrow—if you don’t, there will be no tomorrow for you.

  11. #36
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    I'm just going to post another post because this is all kinds of messed up this is from the 1st chapter. Warning she says 'haughty coal' which haughty means 'uppity' so you can kind of guess what she really means. And this doesn't sound YA safe.



    Also why does she italicise them?




    And she hired an artist to do a rendition of the main character's love interest as half-coal half-beast man. http://www.goodreads.com/photo/group...t?photo=485983

    Tumblr is all over this.

    ETA: Actually got the panther thing wrong but I was recalling from memory here is someones summary of it:

    martinigrl 28th-Jul-2012 05:50 pm (UTC)
    Ok so it doesn't make any logical sense (like the rest of this book) but the main guy who is a super rich black dude aka. her secret love interest owns this lab where she and her dad work and her dad is working on this experiment to make white people have more melanin via panther dna (there's an anaconda and eagle dna in this too) so they were going to shoot up two white test subjects to see how it rolls.

    Then a bunch of "coal terrorists" who want to eliminate all the "pearls" (one of whom the main girl thinks is gonna make her his wifey thus saving herself from being thrown into the nuclear wasteland) attack b/c this dumb bitch tells the terrorist what's up. So the tests subjects die and the lab explodes and rich boss guy is like SHOOT ME UP.

    So they do.

    And he becomes some weird half man half panther and move to the amazon where all the locals somehow speak spanish (because you know it's not like brazilians speak portuguese or their actual native tribal language IRL or anything) and then she falls for him with a lot of creepy exotic language and then she decides at the end she wants to be a half panther too.

    I WAS LIKE o.O the whole time. I also drank heavily throughout.
    Last edited by fireluxlou; 07-28-2012 at 11:48 PM.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    I'm just going to post another post because this is all kinds of messed up this is from the 1st chapter. Warning she says 'haughty coal' which haughty means 'uppity' so you can kind of guess what she really means. And this doesn't sound YA safe.



    Also why does she italicise them?




    And she hired an artist to do a rendition of the main character's love interest as half-coal half-beast man. http://www.goodreads.com/photo/group...t?photo=485983

    Tumblr is all over this.
    And this may be nit-picking, but in a reality where the role-reversal was complete, wouldn't the language reflect it better? Like, dark skin would be the new "default". The narrator wouldn't point it out like that. The language is still pointing out "them" like they are the "other". Know what I mean?

  13. #38
    So Goth That I Was Born Black Kitty27's Avatar
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    Good Lord.

    I saw a link to this on Twitter and all I can say is what in the entire fuck was this woman thinking?

    The attitude that an African American readership doesn't exist is frankly and sadly one that many believe to be true.

    Turning a black man into a beast? Blackface? Saying ONE Black reader loved the book aka he or she wasn't like those other Blacks?

    This woman is racist or at the very least,so wrapped up in privilege that she doesn't believe she's done anything wrong or offensive as hell. No self respecting publisher or agent would touch this with a ten foot pole.Her comments are something else and prove what POC preach relentlessly and I've said many times before.

    If you have fucked up attitudes about people of color and attempt to write about such characters,it WILL show in the writing. This woman is the embodiment of that. Chile,further words fail me.
    Last edited by Kitty27; 07-29-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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  14. #39
    Rewriting My Destiny Cyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty27 View Post
    ,so wrapped up in privilege that she doesn't believe she's done anything wrong or offensive as hell.
    I really think it's this.

    I'm white, and except for our housekeeper, everyone I knew in my hometown in the Southeast was white. It was a white world with white actors on TV and white models and white teachers and a white president. There were a few Cuban kids in my private high school, but just a few.
    I think, in her mind, she's done something *amazing* by her own estimation.
    That skewed view is evident here:

    However, the trend is clear, considering the aging white population, and the median age of Latinos in their peak fertility years.
    The median age of ANY group in their peak fertility years is going to be nearly the same when compared to a group that's aging. If you compared "peak fertility year" Caucasians to aging Latinos, you'd get the same result. The median age in the older group will be older than the median age in the younger group.

    And these two statements:

    I don't harbor fears that the existing minority races are waiting for the day they can take revenge on whites. I hope that we are as a whole more evolved, and have learned vital lessons during the Civil Rights era.
    I like to imagine a caramel-colored future where racial lines are indistinct and issues of prejudice a thing of the past.
    show how out of touch the author seems to be.

    The Civil War era was hardly the end of any civil lessons to be learned about race or equality. Similarly blending all races into one "caramel-colored" group isn't anything but a fantasy. Why should it take homogenization for racism to cease?
    Last edited by Cyia; 07-29-2012 at 05:43 AM. Reason: to fix misquote

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthPanda View Post
    And this may be nit-picking, but in a reality where the role-reversal was complete, wouldn't the language reflect it better? Like, dark skin would be the new "default". The narrator wouldn't point it out like that. The language is still pointing out "them" like they are the "other". Know what I mean?
    Yea well you'd think so. Here's another bit from the same chapter her character is just an embodiment of the author, to be able to be racist in this case under the guise of a 'post-apocolyptic' world.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    Yea well you'd think so. Here's another bit from the same chapter her character is just an embodiment of the author, to be able to be racist in this case under the guise of a 'post-apocolyptic' world.
    Wait... I thought "Coal" wasn't supposed to be a slur?

    i are confused.
    Last edited by DarthPanda; 07-29-2012 at 04:58 AM. Reason: reading the amazon sample now...

  17. #42
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    One of the comments to her blog:
    interesting. i think white people are already the minority. i'm in Virginia right now and I'm seeing a heavy block community not much different from Los Angeles. Ironically, I am in a coffee shop filled with white people, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years time, blacks and latinos will become the majority compared to whites.
    White fear of being in the minority? Is it that fear that (subconsciously) inspired this book?

    As I said before, racism has nothing to do with the dominant, default race being the majority.
    In Guyana, the tiny minority white elite owned all the plantations, all the businesses, shipping, shops, everything. In the mid-1950's were supported by Britain and the US. When we voted for a POC leader, Britain sent in the army and deposed him after 100 days, with the aid of the US, and made sure that their own black puppet was the one to get the votes. Don't even ask how.

    Even in a POC majority country, white was (and still is) the default. White beauty is the standard for women. If you are white you will have an easier time in romance, job seeking, getting served at restaurants, and generally in being deferred to. See my story, somewhere else in this forum, about being served last at a table I shared with two white men -- even though I had been waiting half an hour before they came. Instituionalised racism has nothing to do with majorities or minorities. It's an internalised attitude, and damn hard to dig out of an affected person's brain. And so subtle they don't even notice it. I'm sure those guys who shared my table are not racist, yet theyhad no idea what was going on.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthPanda View Post
    Wait... I thought "Coal" wasn't supposed to be a slur?

    i are confused.
    I think the little game here is that 'they' are now the evil oppressors, so it's cool if you hate 'them'. The set-up allows her to spew racist BS by pretending to switch the roles.

    As aruna points out, it doesn't work like that. The MC would not think the Coals were ugly, even if they were in the 'evil oppressor' role. That's not how racial power has worked historically, anyway. The oppressed usually aspire to the powerful view of beauty, etc. Well, beauty is still power so it's about how to get ahead, on a subconscious level, of course, imho.

    Racial issues like that don't have to go the historical way in spec fic, imho. There are a lot of things to ponder and explore via fiction. But I think this author just used everything as an excuse for racist bullshit. But she thinks she is being 'deep'. Aaack. Just No.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
    I really think it's this.



    I think, in her mind, she's done something *amazing* by her own estimation. Considering she also went into detail about the coffee shop she's writing in being full of only white people, but that it's totally not a reflection of the world outside, she's got a skewed view of her surroundings.

    (Sort of like those studies where a conversation that's 50/50 male and female is perceived as overwhelmingly female by the males.)

    That skewed view is evident here:



    The median age of ANY group in their peak fertility years is going to be nearly the same when compared to a group that's aging. If you compared "peak fertility year" Caucasians to aging Latinos, you'd get the same result. The median age in the older group will be older than the median age in the younger group.

    And these two statements:





    show how out of touch the author seems to be.

    The Civil War era was hardly the end of any civil lessons to be learned about race or equality. Similarly blending all races into one "caramel-colored" group isn't anything but a fantasy. Why should it take homogenization for racism to cease?

    Again,Good Lord. I can't think of anything else to say about this level of cray.

    I have written some true lunacy in my day but never have I approached this level. Privilege is very real but many don't even see that they have it because it's so ingrained.

    The fact that this poor soul can't see anything wrong with what she has written and said is proof of it.

    I expect quite the reading for filth to come her way as news of this spreads.
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  20. #45
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    186 reviews on Amazon omg

    From one of her other articles talking about Bramford.

    Personally, I prefer a more beastly fellow. And yet, I admit to being turned on by a well-tailored suit on buff male a la Don Draper.

    ...

    Lucky me, as I writer I often channel my musings and questions into themes in my work. Thus, in Save The Pearls Part One, Revealing Eden, I created Ronson Bramford, beastly but intelligent, honorable and one helluva sexy guy. By the end of the book, I had gained greater clarity about what I was looking for in a man.

    ...

    Getting back to my literary exploration of the beastly nature of man, in my dystopian fantasy novel, Revealing Eden, Bramford is transformed into a jaguar man. And our heroine, Eden Newman, falls head over heels in love with him, although she detested the hip, sought after titan he once was.
    Fighting for their survival in the last patch of the rainforest, their values become very elemental. Finally, in that simple world, they each get in touch with their true selves, and yes, find true love.

    If Bramford were here, he might change the oil in my car or cook an intimate dinner for us. In either role, he would know who he is, his confidence would sweep me off his feet, and not his tailored suit.

    ...

    Fortunately, I've found a new model. The ecosexual male: a man who is not afraid of his masculinity or his feminine side, as naturally at ease with himself as an animal in the jungle.

  21. #46
    So Goth That I Was Born Black Kitty27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    186 reviews on Amazon omg

    From one of her other articles talking about Bramford.

    They read her for filth. Good.


    If Bramford were here, he might change the oil in my car or cook an intimate dinner for us. In either role, he would know who he is, his confidence would sweep me off his feet, and not his tailored suit.

    ...


    Fortunately, I've found a new model. The ecosexual male: a man who is not afraid of his masculinity or his feminine side, as naturally at ease with himself as an animal in the jungle.



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  22. #47
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    by Niki (new) Jul 12, 2012 06:22am
    interesting. i think white people are already the minority. i'm in Virginia right now and I'm seeing a heavy block community not much different from Los Angeles. Ironically, I am in a coffee shop filled with white people, but I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years time, blacks and latinos will become the majority compared to whites.
    Please trust me, not all southern, white Virginians think this way. This comment disgust me...
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  23. #48
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    The more I read this, the more confused and shocked I get. The excerpts from the actual book were just....just, I don't even know if we have a smiley that can show a proper reaction but I'll try.

    And that still isn't enough. Truthfully, I am not white (which honestly doesn't matter, I just felt like saying it), but the this whole thing is just enough to make me . I don't....I just....just what was she thinking?
    Last edited by Silver-Midnight; 07-29-2012 at 02:58 AM.

  24. #49
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    This has to be the biggest literary trolling stunt ever. I have a hard time believing this woman wasn't fully aware of what she was doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
    Ditto.

    I started reading through some of this last night and COULDN'T STOP CLICKING LINKS. I kept waiting for the "gotcha" to appear.

    The "save the whites" thing is just...

    But, did you see where she's pitching this as "beauty and the beast" and a "dystopian romance?" Exactly what life-altering change is the "beast" supposed to undergo by the end of the tale?

    Or that it's not just "pearls" and "coals," but "ambers" for Asians, and "tiger-eyes" for Latinos, which means the only non-precious material is "coal." (This is supposed to be "upturned" racism? Really?) And what about POC who are light-skinned, or Caucasians who are naturally darker? What about those with a mixed heritage?

    Or the "mate rate" video where the MC's speaking about her only two mating offers (which actually adds a whole 'nother layer of creepy to this, considering 18 is the UPPER LIMIT for age before one is mated) She says "I'd rather die than mate with another one of my kind." "I want to be protected." "I reek of inferiority."

    o...k... backing away from the book very slowly. Not giving it my back.

    I'm not sure who the target audience is for this thing, because I've seen reviews from readers identifying themselves as POC who are appalled, and reviews from Caucasian readers like me who are likewise appalled. It's an equal-opportunity fail. (and I'm with the reviewer who was stunned at the idea that this book has won awards or praise of any kind.)
    The target is white racists who fear "extinction" of the white race through interracial marriage. I know~ It's all so scary... people from other races are marrying each other. *heavy sarcasm* ('cause if I didn't use sarcasm I would be ranting nonstop...)

    Oh and I think it's kinda brilliant that she thinks that Latinos and Asians made it in society somehow as a model race because they get gemstone names. (Gag me) And of course Coal. What? the internet was broken that day that you couldn't look up "Black gemstones"? and then you said Oh well, let's choose something else black--hmmm... my non-white housekeeper can help me write this book.... let me ask her. Wait, the door is (F*ing) jammed I got this black soot on my hands. I'll have to use words with my house keeper. Wait... soot, dust... but I need a solid object... COAL! Yes. Wasn't that a slur...? No matter. Short, coal it is. My Housekeeper will have my back later. I can use her as an excuse to use this, because she's a person of color--wait I don't see color except Barrack Obama.

    *Arrggghhh*

    Quote Originally Posted by aruna View Post
    One of the comments to her blog:
    White fear of being in the minority? Is it that fear that (subconsciously) inspired this book?

    As I said before, racism has nothing to do with the dominant, default race being the majority.
    In Guyana, the tiny minority white elite owned all the plantations, all the businesses, shipping, shops, everything. In the mid-1950's were supported by Britain and the US. When we voted for a POC leader, Britain sent in the army and deposed him after 100 days, with the aid of the US, and made sure that their own black puppet was the one to get the votes. Don't even ask how.

    Even in a POC majority country, white was (and still is) the default. White beauty is the standard for women. If you are white you will have an easier time in romance, job seeking, getting served at restaurants, and generally in being deferred to. See my story, somewhere else in this forum, about being served last at a table I shared with two white men -- even though I had been waiting half an hour before they came. Instituionalised racism has nothing to do with majorities or minorities. It's an internalised attitude, and damn hard to dig out of an affected person's brain. And so subtle they don't even notice it. I'm sure those guys who shared my table are not racist, yet theyhad no idea what was going on.
    Yes, I found this in Korea, Japan and China too. Makes me sad...

    So, for example, in Korea, if you know English, you are more likely to get a job. Went to a White US college? (Which is how Koreans viewed America before Barrack Obama... I've been tracking it...) You are more likely to get a job. Freckles are considered ugly. Nose jobs are done to make people look more white. Eye surgery for the double eye lid (Korea, Japan and China). Lighter skin is treasured more in all three mentioned countries. If you speak English they want to hire you. English shows play at least some part of the day all day around. (Hong Kong, Japan, Korea--parts of China, though this is from reports more I've gotten.)

    In fact, Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan do a lot more cultural exchange than Canada and the US does... there are TV shows that are imported wholesale between the countries and subbed freely. One of the biggest hits in Japan was a Korean TV show, Winter Sonata. Korea, in turn, imported a bunch of Japanese TV shows which also were popular.

    Apartheid anyone?

    US? No. Could they import, say Mexican shows on TV. Sure. They could also import French Canadian. Run subtitles on Japanese anime late in the night. Run subtitles on something *not* in English. But you get the point. White is often considered default in other countries and they are aware of the pervasiveness of English and see it as a "White" language.
    ***

    There is this thing among white extremists where they are afraid their race will go "extinct". (Which gives me a whole other type of headache several parts cultural anthropology...). This book seems to be an embodiment of that thinking.

    From her article... (Which is not a good read--it gives me a massive headache):
    Whites will remain a majority for some time. However, the trend is clear, considering the aging white population, and the median age of Latinos in their peak fertility years.
    I don't even... what... where... *shakes head* I'm crying out how could someone even go here? AND then make it worse by blackface? Can I say it? WTF is wrong with her?

    I'm glad it's getting slammed on amazon and goodreads. I wonder if the 30-something odd good reviews are her friends who are also racist, but I'll try to be mature and not go there. Though her article on Huffington post also makes her seem like she's against QUILTBAG too. (And no, I didn't miss the bit where she's all blacks are only good for changing oil.)

    Did she even research? I feel like I need bleach for my brain, a strong sledge hammer, a lobotomy, and a good fetal position to get this trash out of my head. I can't think of a time that I didn't know better.

    And I hope that someone would have the sense to outright call me racist if I ever pulled any kind of S*t like this. Seriously. Please.

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