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Thread: Victoria Foyt's novel coming under fire...

  1. #251
    Not so secret agent
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    I did a blog post on her and this book (shameless plug). I'm white and Jewish with the tiniest Cuban added in, not that ANY of that matter, but I was horrified at this whole thing. It's honestly just frightening. Coals? Pearls? Ambers? I'm still flabbergasted at the OVERT racism. And the fact she thinks she's promoting racial harmony or something? Someone said upstream they felt ashamed to be white. Little story off-topic.

    My grandfather liberated a concentration camp during WW II. I have some copies of the pictures they took for their records. He always said, seeing what the Nazis/Germans did made him ashamed to be a human being.

    Like she said upstream, it makes me ashamed to be white.

    Foyt is so blinded to white privilege...it's just frightening.

    Rant over.
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  2. #252
    Worst song played on ugliest guitar Libbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aruna View Post
    Stop The GR Bullies has blogged in defence of Foyt.
    Oh, I am astounded.

    ASTOUNDED.

    THIS IS MY ASTOUNDED FACE. :|

  3. #253
    Mushroom Polenth's Avatar
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    And just when it seemed to be dying down, Weird Tales decides to publish a chapter of the book, announced with a defensive note from the editor saying it's 'thoroughly non-racist' and 'anyone with an appreciation for irony' will get that.

    http://weirdtalesmagazine.com/2012/0...n-racist-book/
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  4. #254
    Cuddly sweet teddy bear! Dani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polenth View Post
    And just when it seemed to be dying down, Weird Tales decides to publish a chapter of the book, announced with a defensive note from the editor saying it's 'thoroughly non-racist' and 'anyone with an appreciation for irony' will get that.

    http://weirdtalesmagazine.com/2012/0...n-racist-book/
    Wow. Just wow. He/She completely misses all the points that people made. Especially the people of color. Apparently their voice isn't as important as his/hers and that white author. Un-freaking-believable.


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  5. #255
    Three of a perfect pair. AW Moderator amergina's Avatar
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    Oh, Weird Tales. How the mighty have fallen.
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  6. #256
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    Oh, dammit, I have a story out with them. Well, if that's how they feel I'm pulling my story today. Thanks for the update.

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  7. #257
    and she was never seen again zahra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filigree View Post
    Oh, dammit, I have a story out with them. Well, if that's how they feel I'm pulling my story today. Thanks for the update.
    Good for you. Hope you can sell the story elsewhere. Let us know.
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  8. #258
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    He's posted his editorial on Amazon, as well. *headdesk*

  9. #259
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    I've asked my agent about it, since she was the one who first alerted me about their submissions window in late May.

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  10. #260
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    And the story has been pulled, with a bland and polite letter about how the story needs revision. Which it probably does, since I'm going a different way with it. It had been a mainstream fantasy set in the Mesolithic Era, but I can see ways to up the heat content and send it to an erotic romance e-pub. And BTW, it does have characters who aren't white.

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  11. #261
    Three of a perfect pair. AW Moderator amergina's Avatar
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    Weird Tales went into a nosedive IMNHO, last year when it was sold to its current owners and the previous editor was let go. My own inclination would to be to avoid it. It is not now what it was when it won Hugos.
    Done: Syncopation -- Rockstars! Kink! Reunited snarky enemies to lovers!
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  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polenth View Post
    And just when it seemed to be dying down, Weird Tales decides to publish a chapter of the book, announced with a defensive note from the editor saying it's 'thoroughly non-racist' and 'anyone with an appreciation for irony' will get that.

    He appreciates irony about as well as Alanis Morissette does.

    Coincidentally (?), Marvin Kaye was the editor of Orson Scott Card's Hamlet's Father...

  13. #263
    Worst song played on ugliest guitar Libbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filigree View Post
    And the story has been pulled, with a bland and polite letter about how the story needs revision. Which it probably does, since I'm going a different way with it. It had been a mainstream fantasy set in the Mesolithic Era, but I can see ways to up the heat content and send it to an erotic romance e-pub. And BTW, it does have characters who aren't white.
    I wish you'd told them you pulled it because they support Victoria Foyt...and also because it needs revision.

  14. #264
    Sophipygian AW Moderator Alessandra Kelley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amergina View Post
    Weird Tales went into a nosedive IMNHO, last year when it was sold to its current owners and the previous editor was let go. My own inclination would to be to avoid it. It is not now what it was when it won Hugos.
    Ah, shucks. I always adored its cover art, and it was one of the places I was interested in slinging my portfolio.

    I guess things change.

  15. #265
    and she was never seen again zahra's Avatar
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    Ann Van der Meer has resigned from Weird Tales, effective immediately. Shame on them.

    I really hope all this doesn't develop into a case of 'No such thing as bad publicity' for STP.
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  16. #266

  17. #267
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    Wow. That's admirable that she resigned because who wants to be out of a job? I hope more people boycott them.

  18. #268
    A Gentleman of a refined age... thothguard51's Avatar
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    My personal feeling, Victoria Foyt is far too invested in this book as the author to every say, I fucked up. She is not going to back down, she is not going to pull the book, she is not going to admit her ignorance about racism.

    At this point, it is in her self interest to continue with her current line of I am not a racist, the book is not racist, and the PoC who are claiming it is racist, are racist themselves...

    No end in sight...

    What I have wondered through this whole thing is why she did not write from the PoC perspective? Her beast man as she calls him, could have fought to save the Pearls because he realized they were instituting reverse discrimination and genocide and two wrongs do not make a right.

    Might have been much more interesting and thought provoking...
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  19. #269
    The force is strong in this one. williemeikle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libbie View Post
    I wish you'd told them you pulled it because they support Victoria Foyt...and also because it needs revision.
    I just did :-) Pulled my story and cited their racism and their obvious lack of quality control as my reasons.

  20. #270
    Mildly Disturbing Filigree's Avatar
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    I didn't say that in my letter, because at the time I wanted to keep doors open on Ann. Now that she's gone, it's a moot point - I won't be submitting anything to WT while its course is charted by the remaining editors.

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  21. #271
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    And the publisher just overruled the editor.

    A very good apology, but I'm still not sure I'd submit there in the future as long as that editor remains.

  22. #272
    A Gentleman of a refined age... thothguard51's Avatar
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    From the above article...

    "Marvin says if you read the whole book, she explains her use of this imagery, and it ends up as a plea for tolerance."

    Marvin still does not get it. At best it is a misguided plea for tolerance based on the authors limited view of what racism is...
    Knowledge is learned while wisdom is earned.

    Currently working on...

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    Book 1, A Game of Pawns
    Book 2, Pawn takes Queen,
    Book 3, Pawn's Gambit,

    In the pipeline,
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  23. #273
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    A plea of tolerance from a person who holds the privilege and slams PoC who criticise her. I'm not surprised that some white people don't see what's racist about the book.

    And this QFT:

    I have not read the novel, but have gone over its online presence today. I have no need to read it. I saw the blackface video and read the excerpts the author and publisher chose to make available. I must conclude that the use of the powerful symbols of white people forced to wear blackface to escape the sun, white women lusting after black “beast men,” the “pearls” and “coals,” etc., is goddamned ridiculous and offensive. It seems like the work of someone who does not understand the power of what she is playing with.
    Looks like the publisher understood the racism of this book at least.

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    A plea of tolerance from a person who holds the privilege and slams PoC who criticise her. I'm not surprised that some white people don't see what's racist about the book.
    All too true, sadly enough.

    The publisher was pretty forthright in calling it racist. I suspect he will be keeping a much closer eye on Kaye in the future. (If he even keeps Kaye on board.)

  25. #275
    Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you mscelina's Avatar
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    I don't think the editor was in any way supporting the ideology of the story or the theme. I think that in light of some of our recent controversies--like Goodreads bullies--the editor might have been going to the defense of an author who presented herself as the victim of unwarranted abuse. That seems the most likely scenario to me. Weird Tales is such an institution in the community. And while I am encouraged by the publisher's response, which was very appropriate and heartfelt, I think we'll find that the editor's biggest fault was not utilizing his Google-fu to see what this author's specific controversy was.

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