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Thread: Victoria Foyt's novel coming under fire...

  1. #201
    and she was never seen again zahra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireluxlou View Post
    Wow I was on a reading kick yesterday so didn't comment but Victoria Foyt has voiced her word on the controversy around her book. I'm going to copy and paste the entire thing, in case anyone can't see it and in case she deletes it, because WOW:



    http://www.facebook.com/SaveThePearl...44346182255531
    OK, now I'm getting almost too angry to participate. Dismissing the concerns of people who not only read but also write and some of whom are also non-white, with nonsensical rhetoric and downright ignorance, and then to compound it with 'Happy reading'...!

    I think I am going to continue this conversation with the bodies who have given this ....book awards.
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  2. #202
    Psychopompous AW Moderator RichardGarfinkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    It's a dialect reserve, that is, an archaic word preserved in limited use in some dialects, and typically, only the older generations.
    <Full bore totally off subject pedantic point of obscure interest>

    Nought is actually used in a particular branch of mathematics.

    The first transfinite cardinal number is designated with a capital aleph with a 0 subscript.

    This is often read as "aleph nought"

    </Full bore totally off subject pedantic point of obscure interest>
    Sometimes, what people need is to have things asked of them.




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  3. #203
    On a wing and a prayer aruna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrooster View Post
    Bingo.


    I once came up with a society where it made internal sense to reuse the bodies of the dead for leather and rawhide. Lots of plot and culture falls out of this. There could be a tradition of getting tattoos so that when your body is reused, your family can remember you by making something they use a lot from that bit of skin.

    Reader reaction: eeeeeeeew.

    So you know what? Even if it is a great idea, even if it's consistent and sensible and could be really useful in storytelling, I can't use it. Because the people reading the story matter too, and in their (our) culture, this is not OK.

    The thing is: no matter how great a writer you are. No matter how well you achieve that wonderful Willing Suspension of Disbelief necessary for brilliant fiction that transports you into the world of your characters and their peculiar reversed values, so that you actually believe...

    Somewhere, deep inside, there's the Real Life You with your Real Life Values thinking, WOW! I'm a precious Pearl and those black dirty horrible evil Coals are so MEAN to me!
    Last edited by aruna; 08-01-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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  4. #204
    On a wing and a prayer aruna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    It's a dialect reserve, that is, an archaic word preserved in limited use in some dialects, and typically, only the older generations.

    Yeah, I guess I have aged myself with the question -- in school, we did learn to use the word Nought, and I don't know if they use Zero in today's Britain.
    But the game Noughts and Crosses -- well, that hasn't changed.
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  5. #205
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin scottken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zahra View Post

    I think I am going to continue this conversation with the bodies who have given this ....book awards.
    I doubt that would get you very far, as all those bodies are primarily concerned with selling services (publishing, publicity, and awards) to new writers. It's really evident when you look at the large quanity of awards/honorable mentions these contests give out each year. Each contest also charges a hefty entrance fee.

    Here are the stats on the four entities that gave awards/honorable mentions to Save the Pearls:

    Eric Hoffer Award
    Entry fee: $50
    Number of awards given in year of SavethePearls: 112
    Parent company: Hopewell Publications
    Primary business: Selling publishing services to new writers
    URL: http://www.hofferaward.com/
    Additional info: per a Jan 2012 column by the founder of the Hoffer Award Christopher Klim, it accepts 1000 entries annually. Doing the math (1000/112), that means if you enter this contest, you've got roughly 1 in 10 chance of having an award or honorable mention to use to promote your book. Contest revenue: 1000 x $50 = $50,000. Cash prizes given: $2,500. Other companies that seem to promote this award (US Review of Books, Infinity Publishing, Best New Writing) are all part of Hopewell Publications,

    Books and Authors
    Entry fee: $50
    Number of awards given in year of SavethePearls: 31
    Parent company: John Weaver, who specializes in book marketing (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-weaver/9/6a4/4a6); domain registration here
    Primary business: selling publicity to new writers
    URL: http://www.books-and-authors.net/Contests.html
    Additional Info: Site is registered under "Page One Literary Newsletter" and includes links to such. Many of the articles on the site seem to date from 2007-2008. Various rankings sites list the site as having 79 visitors a day or a mere 15. There's an internet discussion between Weaver and others regarding a client dispute on the writers weekly forums. Writer Beware search didn't turn up anything of note on Weaver, so perhaps of all Savethepearls awards this one is the most legitimate. It is, however, bestowed by a little-visited website with outdated web design and links.

    San Francisco Book Festival
    Entry fee: $50
    Number of awards given in year of SavethePearls: 191
    Parent company: JM Northern Media LLC
    Primary business: creating online contests/media events like this one
    URL: http://www.sanfranciscobookfestival.com/index.html

    Los Angeles Book Festival
    Entry Fee: $50
    Number of awards given in year of SavethePearls: 130
    Parent company: JM Northern Media LLC
    Primary business: creating online contests/media events like this one
    URL: http://www.losangelesbookfestival.com/

    These last two "Book Festivals" are especially egregious. If you click on the their links, on the upper right is a link for "multiple entries." That lets you enter all 15 of the contests run by JM Northern Media LLC (at $50 per entry) for $775 ~$697 (you get a 10% discount!) with one easy submission. As opposed to most book festivals, which involve stalls of books that people peruse, there don't appear to be any actual festivals associated with these events. They simply rent a hotel room to give out the "awards."
    Last edited by scottken; 08-01-2012 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Updated with additional info

  6. #206
    On a wing and a prayer aruna's Avatar
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    wow. i think I missed a trick with my book marketing... not.
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  7. #207
    Rewriting My Destiny Cyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aruna View Post
    Yeah, I guess I have aged myself with the question -- in school, we did learn to use the word Nought, and I don't know if they use Zero in today's Britain.
    But the game Noughts and Crosses -- well, that hasn't changed.

    There is actually a variation of it used in the US, but it's gun related. The 30-06 is most often called a "thirty-aught-six." Even though the "n" is missing, it's a pretty obvios correlation between aught and naught both meaning zero.
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  8. #208
    Delerium ex Ennui Xelebes's Avatar
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    Aught is more likely to be used here than nought. The only use of nought in common speech (not in set theory) is the Aught-noughts (The years 2000-2009.)

  9. #209
    practical experience, FTW mccardey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    It's a dialect reserve, that is, an archaic word preserved in limited use in some dialects, and typically, only the older generations.
    *sigh*

    I say it.

    So do my friends.

  10. #210
    we are the words 'i love you' kuwisdelu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardGarfinkle View Post
    <Full bore totally off subject pedantic point of obscure interest>

    Nought is actually used in a particular branch of mathematics.

    The first transfinite cardinal number is designated with a capital aleph with a 0 subscript.

    This is often read as "aleph nought"

    </Full bore totally off subject pedantic point of obscure interest>
    This is also how I know nought.
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  11. #211
    A Gentleman of a refined age... thothguard51's Avatar
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    Are any of the awards nationally recognized? None that I have heard of, but I live on the right coast, ahhh, I mean the east coast...
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    On Skin Cancer...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5219752.stm

    Making a question rather than a statement... doesn't *lighter* skintone have to do with the ability to make Vitamin D? Or is that a lie that was fed to me?

  13. #213
    Rewriting My Destiny Cyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Udin View Post
    On Skin Cancer...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5219752.stm

    Making a question rather than a statement... doesn't *lighter* skintone have to do with the ability to make Vitamin D? Or is that a lie that was fed to me?
    I've heard that lighter skin means higher vitamin D production, but honestly, I don't know. "Tips" like that seem to change as often as the list of foods that will cause cancer.

    I'm extremely fair - like a 001 cosmetics "alabaster" fair - and I can tell you from experience that the sun makes me sick. I burn in a matter of minutes, but even before that, I start to feel physically ill in direct sunlight. (And despite the author's insistence, using tanners or bronzers to mimic/create a fake tan has absolutely NO effect on this. Clear sunscreen, however, does.)
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  14. #214
    Hero, villain, angel, demon AW Moderator Sage's Avatar
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    I knew what "nought" meant and I guessed that noughts and crosses was tic-tac-toe from the book's images. Even for those who don't know, the book makes it pretty clear that nought is synonymous with zero, blank, nothing, and that Cross (which is capitalized while nought isn't) is related to religion.

    Yes, I did start reading N&C yesterday because of this thread

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  15. #215
    much writing. very books Maramoser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel Udin View Post
    On Skin Cancer...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5219752.stm

    Making a question rather than a statement... doesn't *lighter* skintone have to do with the ability to make Vitamin D? Or is that a lie that was fed to me?
    The literature agrees with you:

    "People with a naturally dark skin tone have natural sun protection and require at least three to five times longer exposure to make the same amount of vitamin D as a person with a white skin tone."
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...1/?tool=pubmed

    (haven't fully scoped out the article but it's recent/looks legit)

    In theory migration to northern/less sunny climates was a factor in the evolution of light skin tone because Vitamin D is good, yo.

    Anyways, bio nerd backing out now...

    Loved Noughts & Crosses! I still choose to believe Revealing Eden is a massive trolling effort, but I guess I give it props for sparking all the lively discussions here and on Tumblr about why "reverse oppression" is a harmful storytelling tool in the wrong hands. I learn something every time!

  16. #216
    Cultus Gopherus MacAllister SuperModerator Medievalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
    Aught is more likely to be used here than nought. The only use of nought in common speech (not in set theory) is the Aught-noughts (The years 2000-2009.)
    My mother who worked as a switch-board operator was taught to say nought instead of zero to reduce potential confusion with the letter O.

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  17. #217
    Delerium ex Ennui Xelebes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medievalist View Post
    My mother who worked as a switch-board operator was taught to say nought instead of zero to reduce potential confusion with the letter O.
    And really, it flows off the tongue better than barking a zero.

    Nought (or Aught), One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Se'en, Eight, Nine.

  18. #218
    practical experience, FTW meowzbark's Avatar
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    Referring to light-skin vs dark-skin in the sun, as brought up earlier in the thread:

    My mother is extremely pale and will sunburned without protection. She has to wear long sleeves and pants in summer, hat, glasses, and sunblock. Even when she visited me in Arizona, she was covered from neck to feet. Her skin is incapable of tanning. She only burns. A few years ago she did get skin cancer on her face after a nasty sunburn and she's still struggling with the after effects - and she has permanent skin scarring on her face.

    She isn't albino and I'm guessing it's her Irish heritage that made her so vulnerable to the sun. My father tanned easily so I luckily didn't inherit her problem. So although my mother could classify as having the "pearl" problem with the sun, most white people don't. I don't and I'm a white girl living in a state when the sun shines all but 10 days a year. I don't have to slather myself in sunblock when I leave the house...or black makeup like Eden in the story.

    Pearls vs Coals...the more I think about it, the less plausible the story seems. I think you guys are right that she should of employed PoC to beta-read her story before publishing. It would of avoided this whole issue. It definitely opened my eyes with my racially-charged story (several Mexican characters and white/Mexican main character) to definitely get people of multiple cultures to read it before trying to publish.
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  19. #219
    On a wing and a prayer aruna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyia View Post
    I've heard that lighter skin means higher vitamin D production, but honestly, I don't know. "Tips" like that seem to change as often as the list of foods that will cause cancer.
    I've naturally dark skin, grew up in the tropics, been in the sun most of my childhood and youth, lived in India, and never once got sunburn. This year I bought sunblock for the first time but only used it once. Nobody (I mean, citizens) in Guyana or India uses it.
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  20. #220
    You can't sit with us! missesdash's Avatar
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    @Aruna I'm surprised you don't burn! Your skin is very fair (fair brown skin, if that makes sense). I burn, but only after a few hours unprotected. Just goes to show it's about more than tone. Undertones are also important I think? I have an Italian friend who is less likely to burn than me even though his skin is fair, it's olive.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libbie View Post
    I guess it's all well and good to figure out a viral marketing campaign, but as we see here it can bite your career in the ass if you're not promoting a product that's worth promotion...whether it's due to the author's inherent ignorance or the fact that the book just plain sucks.
    Sort of a tangent (and I agree with the general consensus here - what awfulness), but this isn't even real marketing or viral marketing. It's throwing a bunch of crap on the wall to see what sticks.

    Hell, I've given at least three posters here tailored marketing advice in the last couple of months, and I was feeling all insecure about it and my impulse to do so, but... is this the current state of affairs? Artificial award systems and manufactured reviews? And people are charging for that shit?

    Sorry for the derail, because I'm appalled by the cover and what I can gather of the text, but... business butthurt, y'all. This isn't marketing, on any level, so much as a scam.
    Last edited by Yorkist; 08-01-2012 at 02:39 PM.

  22. #222
    Formerly Phantom of Krankor. AW Moderator Torgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aruna View Post
    Slight derail: I've been checking out the reviews for Noughts and Crosses and think I wil give it a try -- I actually have this book somewhere, as it belonged to my daughter and was on my booksehlf or years -- sadly in storage somewhere now!
    Noughts and Crosses is absolutely cracking, by the way, and Malorie is lovely. She's a bit of a national treasure.

  23. #223
    They've been very bad, Mr Flibble Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torgo View Post
    Noughts and Crosses is absolutely cracking, by the way, and Malorie is lovely. She's a bit of a national treasure.

    Good - I bought it a couple of days ago on the back of recommendations in these threads




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  24. #224
    On a wing and a prayer aruna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aruna View Post

    Whatever - one good thing to come out of this is that she (Marjorie Malorie Blackman) will probably make some good sales from this, especially is she is not so well known in the USA.
    Sp. correction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgo View Post
    Noughts and Crosses is absolutely cracking, by the way, and Malorie is lovely. She's a bit of a national treasure.

    Great! I htink I'll buy it again, as I'm not likely to be travelling to Eastbourne in the near future to unpack my boxes!

    I'm glad if the fallout from this disaster is that a good book and author on and by POC gets more exposure, more sales -- and publishers will take note!
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  25. #225
    Travel biologist, piss-poor fluffer quicklime's Avatar
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    the more I read in this thread, the more amazed I am at the writer....


    I shall now write a dystopian book where, due to low fertility rates, men must rape any women they see to maximize the odds of a new generation....then claim to be puzzled by all the women who don't see the hidden message of "family" in it.

    seriously, what the fuck?! Even if you say she's just working the "stone" angle, whites are the only folks with any sort of valuable gemstone association, the others go from plain to outright "dirty", and it has "save the pearls" right on the cover, if I saw right. This just baffles me how she couldn't see that, and I tend to skew towards "Captain Oblivious" edges of the spectrum myself.
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