Establishing Setting

And I've certainly run into stories where the setting was so completely ignored that the author might as well have left it out. i.e. character enters a bar, with just a vague reference and then it was completely ignored. Rather than adding something to the story, it leaves me disconnected from it.

RickN said:

I don't worry about date or time or year unless it matters to the story. Unless the writer gives me a reason to think differently, the date/time is always 'now'.

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My BF lent me a novella by his favorite author. This author, apparently, also always sets stories "now".

Most of the stories my BF mentioned by him had been written in the 30's/40's, so as I was reading this story, I was picturing this noir-ish, 1939 setting with incredibly vivid period details. That is, until someone mentioned that "the central office has a computer for accounting, but the branch offices do book-keeping by hand".

OK, clearly not 1939. And Clearly not the "now" that I'm familiar with. It threw me completely out of the story, trying to figure out what time period I was in. And realizing it had to be somewhere between the late fifties and the late seventies didn't do much to solve my disorientation -- 1957, 1967, and 1977 are all very different environments (when they mention a "car", what sort of "car" should I be picturing? No bloody clue at this point.).

Anchoring your story in a place and time (even if that time is "whenever-you-happen-to-be-writing-the-story") will prevent that sort of disorientation. At least, if you hope that people will still be reading your work a few decades from now.

LindaJeanne said:

Anchoring your story in a place and time (even if that time is "whenever-you-happen-to-be-writing-the-story") will prevent that sort of disorientation. At least, if you hope that people will still be reading your work a few decades from now.

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I've had that disorientation listening to memoir read out. It's obvious to the author when the time was, but even social customs and life choices can seem strange unless the audience knows the time it relates to. Sometimes it can undermine even a fascinating series of events for me, if I don't know when they take place, as well as where.

RickN said:

If I open a story "Bob got out of bed and walked into the bathroom" I do not describe the bathroom, the tile floors, the toilets and tub, etc. I would never assume my reader has no clue about the setting of "bathroom".

I only describe things that MUST be understood (i.e. that the tub is cast-iron and claw-footed is essential to the story)

I don't worry about date or time or year unless it matters to the story. Unless the writer gives me a reason to think differently, the date/time is always 'now'.

Ditto a man standing on a subway platform, sitting down in his office, pushing a grocery cart through a market -- it's not a fanfiction concept to assume my reader understands these settings. It is a waste of words to describe a grocery story just in case some readers are unfamiliar with the concept.

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Does your bathroom have a shower and a tub? Are they together or separate? Does it have a toilet? (My mother didn't have one in her bathroom til she got married in 1941.) Does it have a wooden floor or tile? Are there windows? What time period is this, anyhow?

Your idea of 'bathroom' might be very different from mine, even if set in a modern or contemporary setting.

The same can be said for a 'grocery store.'

jaksen said:

Does your bathroom have a shower and a tub? Are they together or separate? Does it have a toilet? (My mother didn't have one in her bathroom til she got married in 1941.) Does it have a wooden floor or tile? Are there windows? What time period is this, anyhow?

Your idea of 'bathroom' might be very different from mine, even if set in a modern or contemporary setting.

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Not to mention: is it small and cramped, with cleaning supplies visible under the sink, a shower curtain from K-mart, and a mirror that badly needs to be washed? Or is it spacious, spotless, with bold & stylish paint and tiles, and a marble dual-sink vanity top?

Does it have antique hex tiling on the floor and a claw-foot tub? Or does it have ugly pink sink/toilet/tub dating from the early 1980's? Or is it ultra-modern?

And that's assuming it's been established the story is set in 2012.

jaksen said:

The same can be said for a 'grocery store.'

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Agreed. Just going by the variety I've been IN, a number of very different images flash through my mind when I hear "grocery store", and I'd want *something* more than just two words to orient me. Don't go on for three paragraphs describing the place. but is this a huge megamart or a tiny supermarcado? Urban or rural? Is the produce fresh and shiny, organic, or past it's prime? Give me *something* to go on. As others have said, you can use a few words of description to build character and set tone, so you can give some direction without "wasting" words.


Edited to add: If the setting isn't important enough to spare a few words of description for it, why set a scene there at all?

LindaJeanne said:

Edited to add: If the setting isn't important enough to spare a few words of description for it, why set a scene there at all?

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Which I think was RickN's point. If it's not important to what is going on, then why even say anything more than that? If it's important he went into the bathroom, if his mirror suddenly becomes a one way dimensional portal to the Twisting Ethers, you'll want to set up a bit more of the scene.

If it's to brush his teeth? Unless it's important to the character (ie character building that he usually brushes his teeth after breakfast and not before, therefore going in to brush his teeth before is now meaningful), is it even worth a mention at all?

bearilou said:

Which I think was RickN's point. If it's not important to what is going on, then why even say anything more than that? If it's important he went into the bathroom, if his mirror suddenly becomes a one way dimensional portal to the Twisting Ethers, you'll want to set up a bit more of the scene.

If it's to brush his teeth? Unless it's important to the character (ie character building that he usually brushes his teeth after breakfast and not before, therefore going in to brush his teeth before is now meaningful), is it even worth a mention at all?

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I think he was saying: if the setting for a scene isn't important, don't describe the setting.

I'm saying: if a setting isn't important enough for a few carefully chosen words of description, move the scene to a different setting or cut the scene.

Why do we have a scene with the guy brushing his teeth at all, if it's not important to the story? If it IS important to the story, then I want to be able to picture where it's taking place.

The setting should help establish some combination of character, tone, and plot. If it's not doing that, you haven't found the right setting (or you don't need the scene).

For details, I try to insert them in bits and pieces. Otherwise, it can feel like three paragraphs of description. (Which tends to bore people.) But I've found that it helps to start description early on - otherwise, the story feels like it's taking place in a white, featureless room. (Which is kind of weird, you know?)

In addition, I try to think about what my characters would notice. If I'm writing a story from the perspective of a fashionable young lady, she'll be more inclined to notice the poor stitching on someone's dress or how the sleeves are in fashionable puffs than would, say, a farmer. (Who might be more inclined to notice how lush and fast maturing the corn is this year.)

LindaJeanne said:

Why do we have a scene with the guy brushing his teeth at all, if it's not important to the story? If it IS important to the story, then I want to be able to picture where it's taking place.

The setting should help establish some combination of character, tone, and plot. If it's not doing that, you haven't found the right setting (or you don't need the scene).

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Which is what I'm saying, too.

You don't need much to convey a feeling of place or time, but sometimes it's necessary. Even in a short story.

LindaJeanne said:

Anchoring your story in a place and time (even if that time is "whenever-you-happen-to-be-writing-the-story") will prevent that sort of disorientation. At least, if you hope that people will still be reading your work a few decades from now.

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I agree for the most part, but there are authors who purposely leave the time open for multiple reasons. I know of several songwriters who purposely eschew the use of specific items to give the stories within their songs a "timeless" feel, and often the timing doesn't really matter. The story could have happened in the Civil War or a hundred years from now and the story would remain the same.

I just finished reading Cormac McCarthy's Child of God. That story has absolutely no details to place the story in a certain year or era--except perhaps the prices that the protagonist pays at the store mentioned briefly. It's the location that is integral to the story rather than the timing.

So, while in general I think it's helpful for a writer to give a reader details to ground the story in a specific time and place, I don't think that in all cases timing is absolutely necessary.

Now, as for how to introduce setting... just never write this sort of thing: "Bob entered the cafe. It had red walls and a black bar. There was a middle-aged white male with a craggy face standing behind it. The bathrooms were to the left and there was a small stage to the right." While there's some decent detail there, it's presented in a boring fashion (I'm sure you could already tell XD).

This may be more engaging: "Bob pushed open the small cafe's double glass doors and stepped in. He walked over the worn carpeting to the bar. 'What can I do ya for?' asked the rather hard looking man standing behind it, raising his nicotine stained hand in a feaux-friendly gesture. . .etc"

Although that may have been a little overboard to make a point

Stirlander said:

I agree for the most part, but there are authors who purposely leave the time open for multiple reasons.

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I would argue that intentionally leaving time and/or place vague is still a form of anchoring the setting -- you're just anchoring it in something non-specific. Which I think requires more care on the author's part, not to break the timeless and/or placeless spell.

Lol, that's what I meant to say

LindaJeanne said:

I would argue that intentionally leaving time and/or place vague is still a form of anchoring the setting -- you're just anchoring it in something non-specific. Which I think requires more care on the author's part, not to break the timeless and/or placeless spell.

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Oh, yes. I have a favorite short story writer (and novelist) who does this, esp. in her shorts. You sometimes have no clue but a dusty road, a barefoot girl, money problems at home and then suddenly something says 1930's US, Kentucky. (As it could be any of multiple locales and time periods.)

The author never tells you that, but you realize it as you read dialogue, description, narration, etc. It's done so vaguely, but so well...