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Thread: [eTailer] DZFiction

  1. #1
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    [eTailer] DZFiction

    A new e-publisher has announced itself here so I thought I'd start a thread about it.

    It's called DZFiction, and it seems to have some sort of affiliation with the newly formed Budding Writers League, which is based in Singapore.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    but appreciated anyway... Unimportant's Avatar
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    It looks more like a distributor/bookseller than a publisher. They neither acquire nor edit; rather, you sign up for an account with them, upload your works, and they sell them and share the revenues with you.

    They're probably honest and well-meaning but I'm guessing that they're going to morph, unknowingly, into a torrent site in the very near future.

  3. #3
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Many thanks to the Moderator for your help.

    Hi Unimportant (but your views are important to me)

    DZFiction is very new and there is scope for change. We hope the change will be positive to our writers, especially the up and coming writers. The site is developing into a social publishing site that will help writers improve and sell their works (when they are ready). We have also formed a DZFiction Book Club that will provide timely feedback to the writers. Nevertheless, the royalty (70% of net sales) and other features remain unchanged.

    Hope the information is useful.

  4. #4
    but appreciated anyway... Unimportant's Avatar
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    DZ, do you have in place any screening/plagiarism-detecting software to check each author's uploaded manuscripts, to make sure they're not just handing you pirated copies of someone else's books?

  5. #5
    practical experience, FTW Anarchic Q's Avatar
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    DZ, can a person also sell with Amazon and B&N or must they sell exclusively with you?

    If I select Japanese does DZ translate my manuscript or does it already have to be in that language?

    Will you publish anything or do you have specific genres?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unimportant View Post
    DZ, do you have in place any screening/plagiarism-detecting software to check each author's uploaded manuscripts, to make sure they're not just handing you pirated copies of someone else's books?
    Hi Unimportant, as my site allows adaptation (of existing works on site) and fanfiction, using plagiarism software may not be feasible. We also believe that, by posting on our website, writers really want to improve their skills and achieve recognition on their own merits.
    Nevertheless, we respect the intellectual property rights of others. If anyone believes that material located on or linked to by DZFiction.com violates their copyright, they are encouraged to notify us in writing to feedback@dzfiction.com.

  7. #7
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    DZ, thanks for responding: but your reply didn't actually answer Unimportant's question, which was:

    DZ, do you have in place any screening/plagiarism-detecting software to check each author's uploaded manuscripts, to make sure they're not just handing you pirated copies of someone else's books?
    What are you going to to do ensure people don't pirate or plagiarise on your site?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchicq View Post
    DZ, can a person also sell with Amazon and B&N or must they sell exclusively with you?

    If I select Japanese does DZ translate my manuscript or does it already have to be in that language?

    Will you publish anything or do you have specific genres?
    Hi Anarchicq, yes, they can sell at other places because our agreement is non-exclusive. By the way, you may wish to note that on DZFiction, writers price and sell by chapters (after posting 5 free sample chapters).

    Writers will only be required to agree to an exclusive agreement when they allow adaptation, including translation, of their works. This is mainly to protect other users who adapt or translate.

    Speaking of which, we do not translate any work; we offer other users the option to do so, provided that the original author allows this. The latter is entitled to part of the royalties (based on 70% of net sales from that particular title) from the sale of the adaptation.

    Hope this clarifies. Look forward to seeing your story (any genre) at DZFiction.
    Last edited by DZFiction; 07-08-2012 at 02:55 PM.

  9. #9
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZFiction View Post
    Writers will only be required to agree to an exclusive agreement when they allow adaptation, including translation, of their works. This is mainly to protect other users who adapt or translate.
    What precisely do you mean by "allow[ing] adaptation"?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    DZ, thanks for responding: but your reply didn't actually answer Unimportant's question, which was:



    What are you going to to do ensure people don't pirate or plagiarise on your site?
    Hi Old Hack, we are working on forming a community whereby writers learn and grow with one another; from there, such trangressions can be reported quickly. Upon receiving the notifications, we will act as appropriate by removing the infringing materials.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    What precisely do you mean by "allow[ing] adaptation"?
    When creating a story, the users have the option of allowing adaptation. They need to just simply select "Yes" for the "Allow Adaptation" field and specify their royalty rate. After that, they need to agree to the exclusive agreement. However, if they do not wish to let other users adapt / translate their works, they just need to select "No".

  12. #12
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    What are you going to to do ensure people don't pirate or plagiarise on your site?
    Quote Originally Posted by DZFiction View Post
    Hi Old Hack, we are working on forming a community whereby writers learn and grow with one another; from there, such trangressions can be reported quickly. Upon receiving the notifications, we will act as appropriate by removing the infringing materials.
    So you're not actually going to do anything proactive to stop piracy or plagiarism on your site. Are you going to make it clear, perhaps in your terms and conditions, that plagiarism is wrong?

    It's good that you'll remove offending works if they're reported, but that's not really enough: will you take any action against people who offend in this way? will you take any steps to compensate the author whose works were pirated or plagiarised, and who might well have lost work or income as a result?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    What precisely do you mean by "allow[ing] adaptation"?
    Quote Originally Posted by DZFiction View Post
    When creating a story, the users have the option of allowing adaptation. They need to just simply select "Yes" for the "Allow Adaptation" field and specify their royalty rate. After that, they need to agree to the exclusive agreement. However, if they do not wish to let other users adapt / translate their works, they just need to select "No".
    That's not a helpful answer and by being so deliberately obtuse you're making yourself, and the site you represent, look negative and unprofessional.

    Let me ask you again, only I'll reframe my question this time.

    What sorts of adaptations do you allow on your site? In this context, how would you define "adaptation"? What sorts of adaptations would you not allow?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    So you're not actually going to do anything proactive to stop piracy or plagiarism on your site. Are you going to make it clear, perhaps in your terms and conditions, that plagiarism is wrong?
    Yes, this is already stated in my terms and conditions:
    "Tenable [owner of DZFiction] will terminate a user’s access to and use of the Website if, under appropriate circumstances, the user is determined to be a repeat infringer of the copyrights or other intellectual property rights of Tenable or others. "
    http://www.dzfiction.com/terms_and_conditions

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    It's good that you'll remove offending works if they're reported, but that's not really enough: will you take any action against people who offend in this way? will you take any steps to compensate the author whose works were pirated or plagiarised, and who might well have lost work or income as a result?
    We apologise if you feel that our steps are not proactive enough. The management will study other methods of prevention and implement if suitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    That's not a helpful answer and by being so deliberately obtuse you're making yourself, and the site you represent, look negative and unprofessional.

    Let me ask you again, only I'll reframe my question this time.

    What sorts of adaptations do you allow on your site? In this context, how would you define "adaptation"? What sorts of adaptations would you not allow?
    My apologies, I had interpreted your question wrongly; I had thought that you were really asking about the operational aspect as in what "allow adaptation" meant. Anyway, the adaptation on my site will comprise translation as well as adaptation from fiction to comics/manga and vice versa. You may wish to see the following page for more information on adaptation:
    http://www.dzfiction.com/how_it_works

    Thank you.
    Last edited by DZFiction; 07-08-2012 at 04:20 PM.

  14. #14
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=DZFiction;7417290]Yes, this is already stated in my terms and conditions:
    "Tenable [owner of DZFiction] will terminate a userís access to and use of the Website if, under appropriate circumstances, the user is determined to be a repeat infringer of the copyrights or other intellectual property rights of Tenable or others. "
    http://www.dzfiction.com/terms_and_conditions

    I'm glad you've got that in your T&C, but why does someone have to be a repeat offender to get hoisted off your site? Isn't once enough?

    We apologise if you feel that our steps are not proactive enough. The management will study other methods of prevention and implement if suitable.
    There's no need to apologise, none at all. I dislike plagiarism and plagiarists intensely and prefer sites which don't allow their members any leeway on it; you might not feel the same. If you don't, however, I won't be able to recommend your site to anyone who asks me about it.

    My apologies, I had interpreted your question wrongly; I had thought that you were really asking about the operational aspect as in what "allow adaptation" meant. Anyway, the adaptation on my site will comprise translation as well as adaptation from fiction to comics/manga and vice versa. You may wish to see the following page for more information on adaptation:
    http://www.dzfiction.com/how_it_works

    Thank you.
    So the adaptations you allow are translations and reworking into totally different formats. Do the original authors get any say over who is allowed to use their work in this way, or is it just a question of allowing these adaptations and then anyone can have a go?

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    but appreciated anyway... Unimportant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZFiction View Post
    Hi Unimportant, as my site allows adaptation (of existing works on site) and fanfiction, using plagiarism software may not be feasible.
    DZ, if your site is selling fanfiction....wow.

    Is your business registered to a country that is not a signatory to the Berne copyright agreement?

  16. #16
    practical experience, FTW Anarchic Q's Avatar
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    You're selling fan fiction?
    Aaaand there goes my interest.
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    Nefarious Ghost Fan AnneMarble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unimportant View Post
    DZ, if your site is selling fanfiction....wow.

    Is your business registered to a country that is not a signatory to the Berne copyright agreement?
    At first, I thought only that they allowed their authors to write fan fiction based on each other's fiction, from what had been said in this thread. (The impression I got is that people can agree whether or not other authors on the site can adapt their work for their own translations, fan fic, etc.) But after reading that page, it looks like they're allowing fanfic of work from other sources as well.

    And of course, that would be a major legal no-no, unless they restricted it to adaptations of public domain work.
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    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    IMHO if you are allowing derivative works not authorized by the copyright holder, you may not be operating for very long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    IMHO if you are allowing derivative works not authorized by the copyright holder, you may not be operating for very long.
    Yep. Copyright infringement is a criminal (not civil) offense in the US (and very likely many other countries, too), and the publisher of record is as culpable as the author. Posting fan-fiction is one thing; selling it is in a completely different league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    I'm glad you've got that in your T&C, but why does someone have to be a repeat offender to get hoisted off your site? Isn't once enough?
    We believe in giving our users a second chance and allow them to learn from their mistakes. After all, some of them may really regret their actions. If they can learn and correct themselves, I believe that most writers would not mind giving them a second chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    There's no need to apologise, none at all. I dislike plagiarism and plagiarists intensely and prefer sites which don't allow their members any leeway on it; you might not feel the same. If you don't, however, I won't be able to recommend your site to anyone who asks me about it.
    As mentioned earlier, we will study other methods of prevention. Can I trouble you to share your recommended sites for reference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    So the adaptations you allow are translations and reworking into totally different formats. Do the original authors get any say over who is allowed to use their work in this way, or is it just a question of allowing these adaptations and then anyone can have a go?
    All our users have freedom (provided they do not violate the terms and conditions) to express their creativity. There is no limit to the number of adaptations and we believe that anyone who adapts, will put in his or her best effort to compete for readers. Nevertheless, if writers have their preferred artists / translators, they can disallow adaptation and post the derivative works under their account.
    Last edited by DZFiction; 07-09-2012 at 01:43 PM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unimportant View Post
    DZ, if your site is selling fanfiction....wow.
    Is your business registered to a country that is not a signatory to the Berne copyright agreement?
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchicq View Post
    You're selling fan fiction?
    Aaaand there goes my interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terie View Post
    Yep. Copyright infringement is a criminal (not civil) offense in the US (and very likely many other countries, too), and the publisher of record is as culpable as the author. Posting fan-fiction is one thing; selling it is in a completely different league.

    Thank you all for your reminder. Just to clarify, all fanfiction are not for sale - users will be blocked from pricing any work under this category. We also encourage anyone to report to us (with the story URL and the title of the original work) at feedback@dzfiction.com if they discover any fanfiction being masqueraded as original fiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnneMarble View Post
    At first, I thought only that they allowed their authors to write fan fiction based on each other's fiction, from what had been said in this thread. (The impression I got is that people can agree whether or not other authors on the site can adapt their work for their own translations, fan fic, etc.) But after reading that page, it looks like they're allowing fanfic of work from other sources as well.
    Thanks, AnneMarble! I think you have given me a good idea. I think we can classify fanfiction of works on DZFiction under adaptation.

    Quote Originally Posted by veinglory View Post
    IMHO if you are allowing derivative works not authorized by the copyright holder, you may not be operating for very long.
    We wish to help writers improve their skills; if writing fanfiction can help them to do so, why not?

  22. #22
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZFiction View Post
    We wish to help writers improve their skills; if writing fanfiction can help them to do so, why not?
    Because fan fiction is a violation of copyright, and if you're allowing it to appear on your site you're in contravention of the law.

    You'd be better off allowing people to only post their original work on your site, apart from allowed adaptations of other works which appear there. Make it clear in your terms and conditions that fan fiction isn't allowed, and nor is plagiarism; and that anyone who posts any will be banned from your site. I've dealt with a few plagiarists in my time and not one of them has stopped plagiarising when given second chances.

    But do you know what? It's not up to me, or to anyone at AW, to tell you about this, nor should you rely on what you read here. You need to get yourself proper legal advice about copyright law and how it pertains to you: we cannot replace this. Without it, you're likely to find yourself on the receiving end of a lawsuit, which could be expensive. Please be careful.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    Because fan fiction is a violation of copyright, and if you're allowing it to appear on your site you're in contravention of the law.

    You'd be better off allowing people to only post their original work on your site, apart from allowed adaptations of other works which appear there. Make it clear in your terms and conditions that fan fiction isn't allowed, and nor is plagiarism; and that anyone who posts any will be banned from your site. I've dealt with a few plagiarists in my time and not one of them has stopped plagiarising when given second chances.

    But do you know what? It's not up to me, or to anyone at AW, to tell you about this, nor should you rely on what you read here. You need to get yourself proper legal advice about copyright law and how it pertains to you: we cannot replace this. Without it, you're likely to find yourself on the receiving end of a lawsuit, which could be expensive. Please be careful.
    Many thanks for your advice, Old Hack. I really appreciate it, we will review and update soon.

  24. #24
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Fan fiction is illegal whether free or priced. And plagiarism could land you in court whether first offense or not. I would suggest taking legal advice before proceeding with a policy that explicitly states you intend to host illegal materials. This might leave you liable in a way that non-permissive sites are not--they can always say 'oops, it happened but it was against our rules'--leaving only the author exposed.

    I am not against fanfiction; I read it and write it. But I would never publish it for the simple reason that I don't want to be sued.

    I would also suggest looking at ensuring you are only paying out money to members old enough to sign a binding contract. I saw no age requirement on you site?
    Last edited by veinglory; 07-09-2012 at 07:44 PM.
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  25. #25
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Dear Old Hack and veinglory,

    Thank you for your advice. After reviewing, "repeat" has been removed from paragraph 10 of the Terms & Conditions, which will now read as:

    "Tenable will terminate a userís access to and use of the Website if, under appropriate circumstances, the user is determined to be an infringer of the copyrights or other intellectual property rights of Tenable or others."
    http://www.dzfiction.com/terms_and_conditions


    By the way, Tenable/DZFiction has never supported plagiarism. In fact, the Terms & Conditions have clearly stated that any infringing material will be removed upon notices. Hence, veinglory, perhaps you would like to include the link to the Terms & Conditions on your blog entry, so as to allow your readers to make an informed decision about DZFiction.


    The detailed age requirement is also stated there. While users under 18 can use the site, they need to at least obtain their parents' / legal guardians' consent. However, these users cannot allow adaptation of their works; only users who are at least 18 years old can do so.


    Regarding scanlation, thanks for reminding me about it, veinglory. Just to clarify, it can only be done for works that allow adaptation on DZFiction. In fact, there has never been any "scanlation" category on the site.


    For fanfictions on DZFiction, there will be two types - of works that allow adaptation or of public domain works. For the latter, users need to upload them under the fanfiction category, which will be resumed tomorrow. Copyright owners are encouraged to notify us in writing to feedback@dzfiction.com if they believe that any fanfiction violates their copyright.

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