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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)
Okay, let's see if I can address all the replies to my post on Escape Artist's thread in a coherent fashion.
First, yes, science is science and religion is religion. My problem is when people use scientific arguments to decry religion. That turns science into the inquisition. It defeats science's purpose of helpful inquiry. My problem is when people say you can't prove God, and then are bothered when religious types say, you can't disprove God. If it's scientific fact, you have to be able to do both.
Second, my main problem is with people who decry ALL religion based on (hmmm....what's the polite way to say this?) absurdities in the Bible or in Evangelical Christian thought. Please, there are lots and lots of religions out there. I posted a few of the more tolerant ones in #20 of Escape Artist's thread. I don't think it's respectful to act as if all religions are responsible for the less-savory ideas of one portion of one religion.
Sikhism, for instance, specifically states in stanza #21 of Japji Sahib--the poem devout Sikhs (and some non-Sikhs) read every day--that we can't know when the universe came into existence. That's a far cry from the creationist's countdown of 6000 and whatever years. And frankly, it's a lot more sane than the scientific passion for tracing it back as far as we can go. Point is, we weren't there. Sikhs know that.
Third, believe it or not, atheists are every bit as likely to make "exclusive truth claims" as religious people. My husband and I just took part in a sociological study of people in interfaith relationships. Now, the lady who did the study rightfully points out that she didn't get enough data to make any sweeping statements. But it's telling that of the 14 people interviewed, only one person said that "exclusive truth claims" on the part of a partner ended the relationship. The partner with the exclusive truth claims was an atheist. None of the rest of us mentioned that sort of thing at all. If any of you want to verify that, please pm me with your email address, and I'll forward that study to you.
Fourth, ah, yes, speaking of studies: Loads of double-blind, correctly scientific studies indicate that people who pray or who are prayed for live longer and have fewer health issues, etc. Okay, yes, I know, there might be other reasons, like people who pray might take better care of themselves. And that right there is telling too. Also, there are studies that meditation activates specific parts of the brain. In other words, we're hardwired for the experience of God. THE EXPERIENCE OF GOD. Note, that I didn't say that therefore God exists.
In my understanding, what Escape Artist experienced when she had that experience of vast connection was a religious experience, one she gained when she dropped the idea of hell. I don't believe in hell or heaven either, except as states of mind. Very few people outside of Christianity or Islam (and not even all of those) believe in heaven and hell.
I'm working on a memoir that includes a conversation with an atheist. Haven't figured out how to give you guys the link, but if you're interested you can find that conversation in the memoir section of SYW. It's called the wedding, and I think it's on the 2nd page of threads.
For more information on Sikhs and Sikhism, you can consult sikhnet.com or that book in my avatar.
Blessings,
Siri Kirpal
Okay, let's see if I can address all the replies to my post on Escape Artist's thread in a coherent fashion.
First, yes, science is science and religion is religion. My problem is when people use scientific arguments to decry religion. That turns science into the inquisition. It defeats science's purpose of helpful inquiry. My problem is when people say you can't prove God, and then are bothered when religious types say, you can't disprove God. If it's scientific fact, you have to be able to do both.
Second, my main problem is with people who decry ALL religion based on (hmmm....what's the polite way to say this?) absurdities in the Bible or in Evangelical Christian thought. Please, there are lots and lots of religions out there. I posted a few of the more tolerant ones in #20 of Escape Artist's thread. I don't think it's respectful to act as if all religions are responsible for the less-savory ideas of one portion of one religion.
Sikhism, for instance, specifically states in stanza #21 of Japji Sahib--the poem devout Sikhs (and some non-Sikhs) read every day--that we can't know when the universe came into existence. That's a far cry from the creationist's countdown of 6000 and whatever years. And frankly, it's a lot more sane than the scientific passion for tracing it back as far as we can go. Point is, we weren't there. Sikhs know that.
Third, believe it or not, atheists are every bit as likely to make "exclusive truth claims" as religious people. My husband and I just took part in a sociological study of people in interfaith relationships. Now, the lady who did the study rightfully points out that she didn't get enough data to make any sweeping statements. But it's telling that of the 14 people interviewed, only one person said that "exclusive truth claims" on the part of a partner ended the relationship. The partner with the exclusive truth claims was an atheist. None of the rest of us mentioned that sort of thing at all. If any of you want to verify that, please pm me with your email address, and I'll forward that study to you.
Fourth, ah, yes, speaking of studies: Loads of double-blind, correctly scientific studies indicate that people who pray or who are prayed for live longer and have fewer health issues, etc. Okay, yes, I know, there might be other reasons, like people who pray might take better care of themselves. And that right there is telling too. Also, there are studies that meditation activates specific parts of the brain. In other words, we're hardwired for the experience of God. THE EXPERIENCE OF GOD. Note, that I didn't say that therefore God exists.
In my understanding, what Escape Artist experienced when she had that experience of vast connection was a religious experience, one she gained when she dropped the idea of hell. I don't believe in hell or heaven either, except as states of mind. Very few people outside of Christianity or Islam (and not even all of those) believe in heaven and hell.
I'm working on a memoir that includes a conversation with an atheist. Haven't figured out how to give you guys the link, but if you're interested you can find that conversation in the memoir section of SYW. It's called the wedding, and I think it's on the 2nd page of threads.
For more information on Sikhs and Sikhism, you can consult sikhnet.com or that book in my avatar.
Blessings,
Siri Kirpal