Writing what family won't read.

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eablevins

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Have any of you written things that someone among your family or friends doesn't quite approve of? How did you deal with it?

Most of my family (parents, siblings, cousins) are okay with watching and reading stuff with cursing, violence, etc. They're able to watch it but not use that as a template for their lives.

My favorite aunt will not. No cursing, no sex, no violence. I think she watches baseball and black-and-white movies and Home and Garden. I have no problem with her tastes, and she doesn't tell the rest of the family what we can or can't watch, so we all get along.

Cursing is her Big Thing. I've decided to have a talk with her before I put anything out there, and I won't get upset if she just can't read my work due to curse words.

However, my greatest worry is whether or not I'll have to face the accusation that by putting curse words in the mouths of my characters, I myself am saying them. I've written something that expresses my thoughts on this, and I'm hoping my aunt will understand my way of thinking, even if she doesn't agree with it.

Since writing the above link, I started a short story with a foul-mouthed teenage villain who takes God's name in vain in the very first couple of paragraphs. I tried to think of something else he could say, but it just seemed the most natural thing for that character at that time.

*sigh* What about everyone else? Has this sort of thing ever come up?
 

Gravity

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I used to sweat this. A lot. My first four novels were written for a Christian readership, and I purposely toned things down.

Now that I'm writing for the general market, I no longer have to concern myself with that. My walk of faith hasn't changed, but who I'm wrting to has.
 

The_Riskbreaker

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Originally I thought it wouldn't be too hard to write fiction without curse words. But, as Stephen King mentions is "On Writing", sometimes substituting another word for a curse is a bad thing. Fiddlesticks, or dangit just doesn't have the same ring as "Damnit". It might be that our culture has taken to using those words for maximum expression. I try not to curse in my daily life, because I think it's crude. But as I write I know I write to make people read. And they read because they got sucked into my good tale. If someone in my novels is angry, and probably the sort to lose their cool, they might curse. I won't make their speech prudish just to please a few readers.

I think there's a larger issue here, the idea of evil things. I'm currently writing a book that deals with the topic of Religions and such, and in the book there's violence. Gunfights, chases, people dying, etc... Is that allowed in Christian Fiction? I know Christian author Ted Dekker has killed people in his books before, and sometimes he details violence. (i.e. blood dripping from a wound, broken bones) I think the real question, one thta can only be answered by a publisher in the Christian genre, is how much is too much. Can I use "da**" in my book? Can someone die from a headshot? Is there a limit to the amount of violence? If some of these things are questionable, perhaps a different publisher is needed.

I want to publish my book in such a way that it won't be hampered by anything. If making my novel worthy of a glowing halo causes me to miss out on scores of readers, I have to ask if it's right. Unltimately God know the answers. Since this is a writing forum, i'll pass the baton on to the next writer.
 

Deb Kinnard

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Violence in our market is much less of an issue than blue language -- or sexual content, for that matter. Better your characters should shoot people in the head than cuss about it, or make love to someone.

(Said with tongue only partly in cheek)

Truly, if you want to know the violence level acceptable in C-fic, read Brandylyn Collins or Kristin Heitzman. On screen murder etc. I gave up Heitzman, though she's a very fine author, because the carefully described strangulation of a teenager gave me the heebie-jeebies.
 

SaucyPaladin

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Oh, absolutely.

Much of what I do for writing prompts/warmups is deeply offensive and ought never see the light of day. I've finished a poem that I have no idea what to do with because the subject matter is just toxic.

If it helps get the words flowing for more palatable works, so be it.
 

itsmary

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I don't write for the Christian market, but most of my extended family is very conservative/religious. I'm a Christian as well, but a lot of my characters aren't, and I have very little problem with letting them be themselves. However, I don't even plan on showing my parents my current WIP because I know they won't like it.

One of the things I had to learn as a writer is to turn off the inner voices of people you know telling you that they wouldn't approve of what you're writing. I doubt most of my extended family members would want to read in the genre I write in anyway. And if they do read my work and don't approve...well, there's really not much I can do about that.
 

Dancre

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Here's a piece from my blog that talks about how you can avoid cursing in a christian novel. I learned this from Jeff Gerke (Marcher Lord publisher) in his book The Art and Craft of Christian Writing, http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982104960/?tag=absowrit-20 which is a great book. Here's what I learned and what I do. http://kimkouski.com/profanity-in-the-christian-novel-second-meeting-at-writers-group Ever since then, I have no need for cursing in my novel and only just say, he cursed. I find my novel has more spice and is much edgier (on the border of too edgy) without the cursing, while making me work harder to show why the character is cursing- that's the key, why is the character cursing and creating an atmospher of cursing without cursing. yes, it's hard, but I find it's worth it. That's where you can explore the character and get into funky and frightening stuff. (In fact, I modeled my bad guy after Hannible Lector, in that he's very manipulative and almost hypnotic. And not one curse word from the character, but he's really scary.) I find it makes my story stronger and better and sometimes it's more wicked without the cursing than with it. (In fact, I worry the novel might be too edgy even though I have no cursing or sex. A publisher is mulling it over right now, so we'll see.) But that's just me. :) You have to do what you feel you need to do, but this is an excellent option and it stretches you as a writer, it did for me!! I'll never go back to cursing again b/c to me, it's stall and it's not as fun as exploring my character. And it will be harder to sell to a christian publisher with the cursing.
 
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Gravity

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And it will be harder to sell to a christian publisher with the cursing.

Agreed. Most CBA houses are chock-a-block with their own particular quirks and boundaries, and writers cross them at their peril. While some (like myself) find them onerous, others thrive there.

As Kim alluded, each of us must decide the audience we're writing for, and more importantly, why.
 

Dancre

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Exactly. You have to do what you feel you need to do with your novel. If it makes you uncomfortable using curses, then Gerke's solution is perfect and it works well for me and others. I can get as mean and funky as I want without crossing any borders. :)) But I do worry about my own form of edginess. I worry the publishers will say, can tone this down? I hope not. :) i like Hannibal edginess. :))

Just as a note, sometimes secular publishers won't take stories with excessive cursing as well as christian. From what I've found from publishers, they look at cursing and wonder why the writer can't do any better, especially if you're a newbie. So if you want to use it, use with care and wisdom. Don't use the cursing to develop the character. That won't get you anywhere.

Agreed. Most CBA houses are chock-a-block with their own particular quirks and boundaries, and writers cross them at their peril. While some (like myself) find them onerous, others thrive there.

As Kim alluded, each of us must decide the audience we're writing for, and more importantly, why.
 
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Deb Kinnard

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Oh, Dancre, so agree. Piers Anthony calls any use of blue language "lazy writing" unless it's so necessary to the piece that it cannot be avoided. And he says this is rarer than an honest politician.
 

Dancre

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LOL!!! I don't see it as lazy, more like uninformed. :)

I still remember near the end of the book Silence of the Lambs when Hannibal Lector asked Clarice if her foster father F-ed her. Wow!! That curse word was such a gong ringing. It seemed to change the entire story and almost was a forshadowing to the second novel, as if Clarice and LEctor started their sexual affair at THAT point, not in the second book. It was perfect. Now if someone wants to use cursings, then i say, use it with purpose. Don't use it to develop a character, but as a trait to a character, like he carries a cane. I also remember in that same book there was an agent who cursed all the time and yet it was Lector who shined, shined, shined. (If you haven't read it, then I encourage you to read it.)

I'm also reading a book called Prince of Thorns by Mark Lawrence and it's a very dark book. There is some cursing, but not a lot, but yet it's the dark and disturbing MC that makes me cringe. (In fact, I don't even see the cursings.) The MC is 13 years old, leads a group of criminals and chops off everyone's heads and burns up damsels in distress. EEK!! I'm not for sure if I want to finish it. The MC rarely curses but is very, very, very disturbing. I really don't know if I can finish the book.

"Maicil," I (MC) said. "Take his head."
And he did. - WHAT?? :eek: :Jaw:

So I agree, only use the cursings if you have no choice. And please, don't chop off people's heads. That's just rude. :)

Oh, Dancre, so agree. Piers Anthony calls any use of blue language "lazy writing" unless it's so necessary to the piece that it cannot be avoided. And he says this is rarer than an honest politician.
 

heyjude

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My family in general is pretty good about what I write, even though it's not aimed at a Christian market.

The cursing and the violence doesn't bother me at all. It's taking Jesus' name in vain. That's one thing I won't do and I hate to read it. Weird? :Shrug: Maybe. :)
 

Dancre

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LOL!! My family is worried about me and my imagination. It frightens them. :) I too hate it when people take Jesus' name in vain. It makes me cringe.

My family in general is pretty good about what I write, even though it's not aimed at a Christian market.

The cursing and the violence doesn't bother me at all. It's taking Jesus' name in vain. That's one thing I won't do and I hate to read it. Weird? :Shrug: Maybe. :)
 

Roger J Carlson

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I guess you have to decide what audience you are writing for and if your relatives are representative of that group.
 

Roger J Carlson

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Heh. Every so often my MC's boss does that, jude, and my MC chastises him for it. It's perfectly in character for both of them.
Lily, I've often wondered if your family has any problem with the life-is-not-so-wonderful-behind-the-convent-walls theme in your books.

Or alternately, have you gotten any hate mail from affronted Catholics?
 

Robin Bayne

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I don't have that problem since I'm now writing strictly CBA material. My mother, however, insists her favorite book of mine was my first-- a secular time travel romance with explicit scenes.:Shrug:
 

bluntforcetrauma

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I'm saved and make no bones about it. That said, my stories are full of real life, not some Brady Bunch fantasy world. I tried to become Catholic once, but in the classes, they did not like the questions I asked (and innocently so). It was a bump in the road of my Christian walk.

Christian friends really gets their wigs flipped when they find out what I write. But I write things as I know them, the way people talk and the way they live. It just aint as pretty as most want me to make it. I wish not to offend, but I have to be honest.
 

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I was once given the following advice when it came to my writing, which I tweaked to make it more meaningful to me. Originally, the advice went like this: Don't write anything that you would be embarrassed by if it were read by your pastor, your mother or your spouse.

I have to be honest, I'm not concerned about whether or not friends and/or family would read what I write. I'm more concerned about whether or not I could sit down with Jesus and read it together without getting embarrassed or ashamed. If so, then what friends and family think is besides the point.

Our actions are a reflection of our beliefs. The things we read, watch, listen to, write, do, say, think about, how we spend our time... they're all reflections of our beliefs and the results are eternal.
 

Sol Quince

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OH gosh..I'm only 17 and I write about crazy things. Not that my parents won't like it. It's just it might come to a shock to them because the writings of mine they did read were for young readers. But if I want to exclude something for adults in my story, I really have to think if it is necessary or not. Like if a curse work was there for no reason I would take it out. But there are so many "bad things" that I think are necessary in my young adult book... ha ^_^ I'm glade I'm not the only one sweating this.
 

Deb Kinnard

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Sol, we all sweat this in one form or another. So far, my daughters (currently ages 17 and 24) have read most of my work. My father in law (age 89) has read everything that's gone to print. My husband has read it all. My sis in law will not read any of it but will not tell me why. Most of my friends read at least some. So I pretty much don't write "for" my family at all. If one of them likes a book of mine, why, that's just icing on the cake.

And I always eat the icing first.
 

Sol Quince

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Sol, we all sweat this in one form or another. So far, my daughters (currently ages 17 and 24) have read most of my work. My father in law (age 89) has read everything that's gone to print. My husband has read it all. My sis in law will not read any of it but will not tell me why. Most of my friends read at least some. So I pretty much don't write "for" my family at all. If one of them likes a book of mine, why, that's just icing on the cake.

And I always eat the icing first.

When I first started my novel "Sol", I was writing to all my friends and family. I was like "I really hope there going to like it!" Haha... somewhere I just couldn't do that anymore...if felt wrong to pass ideas up because my parents might think I would never write something like that. Didn't take me long to deiced to started writing for myself and making it where I 100% love it. To me if I like it, and all the scenes are there for a reason it's all good. Oh and i'm sure when my parents read it they will get past the, "omg YOU wrote this!?!! I never expected THIS!!" part and just recognize the story for what it is they will love it too. It's not like I was in the story doing those things haha ;D
 

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I have to be honest, I'm not concerned about whether or not friends and/or family would read what I write. I'm more concerned about whether or not I could sit down with Jesus and read it together without getting embarrassed or ashamed. If so, then what friends and family think is besides the point.

Very very good point. This is really what matters, and yet, who can really know what Jesus would or would not think is right to put into writing, or film, or any media for that matter.

The Bible is pretty full of violence, cursing, sexual infidelity, and more, and yet it is God's Word and extremely redemptive in nature. Does that carry over to fiction writing? It's a question we have to all wrestle with as writers and find where we arrive.
 

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I don't write for the Christian market, but I have to agree with Piers Anthony--spewing cursing in a novel is a sign of lazy writing. Now, my novels tend to be violent, sometimes disturbingly so (which my wife finds ironic, as I'm a pacifist) :), but I will sweat over every curse word I put in the dialogue. This is not for religious or sensitivity issues, but because only rarely does it help define a character. Those times it does, well then in it goes.

I have the same attitude about sex. If there isn't something unusual about it, then it doesn't go in. Again, not because of any personal biases, but because I assume my readers are grown-ups and that they have had sex. They don't need a play by play any more than they need a detailed description of a person eating (he cut the meat, using his fork to hold it; he stuck it with the fork; he lifted the fork to his mouth, etc). I can say, he ate the steak, and everyone can picture it in their own minds.

My very first novel (sci/fi), was about a love affair between a human female and an alien closely resembling a tiger. My publisher (a woman) pushed and pushed for a sex scene between the two. I refused. The details of their relationship were hinted at in the book, which I felt was all that was needed. We finally came to a compromise and I wrote a very short paragraph that was post-coital. Even then, I kept it sweet and humorous.

Peirs, by the way, wrote a blurb for the book's back cover.:)
 
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