Food solution needed

Eldrich · May 30, 2012

The story I just started writing is essentially a classic fantasy tale, only the setting is a little human girl who is in a world of robots and electronics. I think it will be book length and will take place over a bit of time. Basically the setting is a big junkyard, where old discarded electronics with AI sorts of capabilities have become self aware and have created their own civilization.

I have a solution for water, basically she can take water out of the cooling systems for some machines, but I don't have a good solution for food. I thought about just ignoring it and never mention food, but I don't want to lose the realism that it could be real if the technology were that advanced. But I also don't want to break the 'fantasy allegory' of it by tacking on some cheesy solution that is just obviously a solution.

Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!!

alleycat · May 30, 2012

What is the overall setting?

If it's in a remote area you could have there be fruit trees and wild berries and such around.

Or there could be a cache of canned foods in the junkyard warehouse (maybe with an old vending machine or two still stocked with snacks).

Or you could have another human who lives nearby (maybe that could even play in to the plot; say, an older human who refused to move away years ago); the MC obtains food from him/her.

BunnyMaz · May 30, 2012

Well, weeds will grow anywhere, and a lot of weeds and wild plants are edible. Not to mention vermin. She could possibly survive eating snails, rats and foraged plants, although malnutrition would definitely be a thing. Maybe she'd hunt larger animals that prey on the vermin, like foxes?

Is there human civilisation outside the junkyard? Humans managing/working the junkyard, who bring in packed lunches that she could steal? How isolated is she?

Eldrich · May 30, 2012

Thanks for your ideas!

It is kind of essential to the plot that she is completely isolated from other humans for the time being. I do have ideas for two other books that could turn this into a series in the distant future (that is if I get into it and ever sell it)a that would involve the human world much more. But for this particular book I really want to try to maintain an allegorical type feel. Where it's almost a straight fantasy, with very little reference to the 'real' world, except that instead of magic, it's all based on electronics and technology.

The robot civilization actually has all sorts of terrain. There are rural areas, with just loosely scattered debris, cities that are built up, rivers of oil and gasoline, forests with trees of wire. But for the things I have planned for this story, it would really screw things up to add additional human contact.

I'm afraid that if she found old canned foods it would take it out of the fantasy a little too much. Maybe weeds or plants with fruit would work, but, ironically enough, it seems 'unnatural' for the setting. That's why I was pleased when I thought of the cooling water idea, because it seemed to fit. But I can't seem to think of a similar one for food.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, it's always good to get other people's ideas to get the thoughts churning. I had actually been thinking about mushrooms for some reason, but weeds and berry bushes make more sense.

Maybe it could be something like the robots think the weeds are just annoying, but then when she learns she can eat them, they're happy to give as many of them to her as she wants.

MetalDog · May 30, 2012

Insects are an excellent source of protein. You can make worm noodles, apparently.
Check out the SAS survival guide or American equivalent, that should give you plenty of information on what plants are plentiful and good to eat when push comes to shove. How she'd know what was good and what was bad is a different headache unless she's already had a primer on the warning signs.

Mushrooms - pick the wrong ones and you could be dead meat ('destroying angel' is pretty terrifying). Which could be an interesting plot point if you don't mind making her really ill.

Eldrich · May 30, 2012

Yeah, foraging for mushrooms is a bad idea in general if you don't know what you're doing. One of the reasons I thought of that is that it's all actually underground.

I was trying to think of a solution that I could just mention and move on and forget about it, but maybe I should embrace it and have figuring out what types of plants do and don't make her sick be something that drives the plot on. I am not afraid of making her sick, in fact, I like that idea.

She is also supposed to be about 10 or so, so she can't be too clever, at least not in the beginning.

Buffysquirrel · May 30, 2012

One of the robots was built to keep a kitchen garden. It's still doing its job.

jjdebenedictis · May 30, 2012

How about adding a few robots like the replicators in Star Trek, that make food for humans? Or even just foragers that she can reprogram to look for food.

Shakesbear · May 30, 2012

A good place to find out about poisonous plants is here:
http://www.thepoisongarden.co.uk/default.htm I have recently done a lot of research on poisonous plants for my wip. Trying to survive just on plants would cause malnutrition. I would suggest that she would be taking vitamin supplements made for by the robots as well as synthesized foods - I don't think the technology behind this would matter as if readers accept the world you create then I think they would accept that the robots can create her food for her. I liked the water idea. As I've been typing this I have thought that maybe there is an old sort of robot who used to train humans in survival techniques and it passed information to the girl.

Yorkist · May 30, 2012

Perhaps you could combine the environmental sources and the food replication? For instance, a robot could take plants and protein sources (or something) and rearrange their molecules, then synthesize them into little flavored bars? You know, chocolate/vanilla/strawberry, or you could get much more creative. Perhaps the robot could produce something that he thinks tastes like chocolate but is actually more of a coffee flavor, which isn't terribly pleasant to a young palate... And, you know, after a while even youngsters want some spaghetti or something...

OK, this may be cheesy, I dunno, but it indulges my inner 10 year old.

BradCarsten · May 31, 2012

*Rereading your post, I've made a few edits*

Questions that could help us find a solution:

1) where is this junkyard? a moon/planet or on earth?
2) if the former, how did she get there?
2b) is there any further contact with earth? If earth is still dumping things, she could dig through the junk every time they make a drop off looking for discarded food. (Vending machines as suggested above, or any other scraps that are dumped with the mechanical stuff)
3) If the latter (earth) then why are there no rats and other life forms that you would usually find in junkyards.

As I understand your world though, rivers are oil and trees are wire, so how did that happen?
Do these things grow naturally, or have they been constructed? If they have been constructed, then there is no reason why other things cant grow around them, like weeds etc.

If they grow naturally then what we would call biological material has been switched with metal- trees are wire, people and animals are robots etc etc, so perhaps you could take your switch one step further and make what we would call metal into biological material. Ie they mine for it because it plays some kind of role in their society. Used by the rich to prevent rust- I don't know.
Or ask yourself where does the water in their cooling systems come from seeing as how your rivers and presumably your atmosphere are oil. Perhaps it comes from a single underground source (like oil for us) and that is where she would find fish or other edible life forms. They filter those "Impurities" out and she has an all you can eat buffet.

lastlittlebird · May 31, 2012

Maybe some of the machines use a kind of biofuel?
If they are mashing up roots and insects and things to ferment for ethanol, or crushing them to obtain oil, the leftover mash could be nutritious (depending on what they've been using... could also be poisonous of course).

Debbie V · May 31, 2012

ave said:
*Rereading your post, I've made a few edits*

Questions that could help us find a solution:

1) where is this junkyard? a moon/planet or on earth?
2) if the former, how did she get there?
2b) is there any further contact with earth? If earth is still dumping things, she could dig through the junk every time they make a drop off looking for discarded food. (Vending machines as suggested above, or any other scraps that are dumped with the mechanical stuff)
3) If the latter (earth) then why are there no rats and other life forms that you would usually find in junkyards.

As I understand your world though, rivers are oil and trees are wire, so how did that happen?
Do these things grow naturally, or have they been constructed? If they have been constructed, then there is no reason why other things cant grow around them, like weeds etc.

If they grow naturally then what we would call biological material has been switched with metal- trees are wire, people and animals are robots etc etc, so perhaps you could take your switch one step further and make what we would call metal into biological material. Ie they mine for it because it plays some kind of role in their society. Used by the rich to prevent rust- I don't know.
Or ask yourself where does the water in their cooling systems come from seeing as how your rivers and presumably your atmosphere are oil. Perhaps it comes from a single underground source (like oil for us) and that is where she would find fish or other edible life forms. They filter those "Impurities" out and she has an all you can eat buffet.

I think the girl's backstory would help us a lot.

Also, if the rivers are oil and water still evaporates, how do the machines replace their own coolant?

Eldrich · May 31, 2012

Thanks everyone for your thoughts! The junkyard is underneath a big city. As for her back story, she just wakes up there and doesn't know how she got there. In fact, she was kidnapped and placed there, but I don't know when the reader, or her will learn that.

I don't really want to resort to having her find thrown away food, because I think that would take it out of the fantasy a little bit, and I don't know, I just don't like that as much as the other possible solutions.

I think food synthesizers are a good idea. But if i just introduced them early on, I'm afraid it would seem like a silly fix. "My character is hungry, oh, look! a machine that makes food!"

But now I think i'm starting to get a picture I like. What do you think of this?

In the beginning she forages for weeds and stuff (not sure i can convince her to eat rats, but we'll see how hungry she gets i guess), but then as the book goes on, she learns more about the society and digs out old food replication machines, or maybe a more savvy robot gives one to her. Then she gorges herself on strawberry sundaes, cookies, etc...but eats so much she gets sick. Then she learns to eat healthily...there are a few chances for development there...

Slamhamster · May 31, 2012

She could start off with a faulty replicator that can only produce a small number of pale grey protein cubes each day. Naturally they should taste absolutely vile but contain just enough essentials to scrape by on

frimble3 · May 31, 2012

If the systems are this sophisticated, I'll bet there's medical equipment that's designed to pop out some sort of food pellet or some sort of liquid full of nutrients, but not too concerned with taste, for feeding patients.
If there are weeds, moss and bugs, sources of organic components, it could break them down and reconstruct them.
Maybe she has to feed the raw ingredients into the machine? That would take care of the poisoning problem, if the machine breaks down and destroys the toxins?

BradCarsten · Jun 1, 2012

Slamhamster said:
She could start off with a faulty replicator that can only produce a small number of pale grey protein cubes each day. Naturally they should taste absolutely vile but contain just enough essentials to scrape by on

I like this ^

little_e · Jun 2, 2012

Use squirrels instead of rats if they're too icky.
Vending machine robots.
Foraging doesn't need to result in malnutrition--our ancestors evolved as foragers and we are still adapted to the diet.

Eldrich · Jun 3, 2012

Thanks again everyone! This has been enormously helpful. I am now about 3k in, and Camille is currently foraging, and I think it's going to make her sick.

I think all the ideas are great and they've really helped me think more broadly! but for me, for my story, I don't want to rely too heavily on the food replicators. I think they will come later, similarly for thrown away canned food. It just seem like a little too much of a canned (pun intended) solution. Not that they're bad ideas, I just don't like the tone it would put in my story.

As for eating rats, or squirrels or whatever, I don't know. We'll see how that goes. I just have a hard time envisioning her kill a rat and cook it up. Though maybe a robot could do it for her, and give it to her, then she could eat it and be disgusted when the robot tells her what it is...

Anyway, I don't mean to shoot down all of people's ideas, because I'm glad you're willing to give me ideas! But it's hard to convey the tone I want in this story, especially since its just starting to be written, and just some of the solutions seem to fit better than others.

little_e · Jun 3, 2012

Eldrich said:
As for eating rats, or squirrels or whatever, I don't know. We'll see how that goes. I just have a hard time envisioning her kill a rat and cook it up. Though maybe a robot could do it for her, and give it to her, then she could eat it and be disgusted when the robot tells her what it is...

Is this part of her personality, or one of those things that I don't get because I'm odd? I'm just curious, because I find being reticent about food sources rather odd.

I mean, I understand the reticence most people (esp. readers) would have about eating rats, but given a lack of rotting trash and feces, they would be clean. And I figure squirrels would lack the 'squick' factor for the audience. But I fully admit that I am a bit odd in my thinking on this subject.

Hummingbird · Jun 3, 2012

As to foraging, I read once that a person could pretty much live off of sweet potatoes: they've got loads of vitamins and have protein. My only issue is they are too rich and I cannot eat them too often or I get sick from too much iron.

With not wanting to cook rats or squirrels it could be a fear or something that is keeping her from getting close to them or hurting them. But that's just a guess.

I like the idea of getting water from cooling units too. I hope she doesn't get sick from any deposits in the water from the machine though.

solarion · Jun 4, 2012

What about a replicating source of nutrients that was not intended for human consumption? For instance with the rats and squirrels; if calcium, for instance, was a useful material to the robots, then they might be collected automatically as a mixture of pest control/maintenance; and the leftover protein and fat collected somewhere that wouldn't be wasteful, if they're in a self-sustaining environment. Alternatively I was thinking of fertilizers but I'm not quite sure how that'd be a viable thing to eat. I would think this as a supplement perhaps to avoid giving the story that victus ex machina feel you seem to be trying to avoid.

MisterFrancis · Jun 4, 2012

At some point in the development of robots there was a brief fad for automatons with organic components - real flesh to give them a more 'human' feel. Most of them were commissioned as sexbots or in the form of children. The programme was discontinued for being creepy and unethical, and the fleshbots thrown in the junkyard with the other scrap.

Your heroine now has to lure these adorable, ageless, edible children back to her oven and scrape off the delicious meat.

Eldrich · Jun 4, 2012

MisterFrancis said:
At some point in the development of robots there was a brief fad for automatons with organic components - real flesh to give them a more 'human' feel. Most of them were commissioned as sexbots or in the form of children. The programme was discontinued for being creepy and unethical, and the fleshbots thrown in the junkyard with the other scrap.

Your heroine now has to lure these adorable, ageless, edible children back to her oven and scrape off the delicious meat.

haha, okay, this is pretty awesome. But again, unfortunately, perhaps not for this story. I had intended this to be a relatively mature young adult-ish type of story, I'm aiming for the tone of something like 'Spirited Away.' If I ever write an avant-garde x-rated spin off, this will definitely go in there.

The reason I'm hesitant to have her eat rats etc, is that she is ~~supposed to be~~ a 10 or 12 year old girl who is innocent, a little bit ignorant, and kind of squeamish. So I don't think she'd turn down cooked meat if it were handed to her, I just don't think she'd be able to kill an animal and cook it. She'd think it was too nice and cute.

She definitely doesn't have a deep survival instinct. For instance, at one point later on in the story, she willingly tries to offer one of her organs to help a robot friend because she see's that's how the robots help each other, by giving each other their parts...

She will grow of course, to become more independent, mature and self confident, so I think it's possible that she will expand away from eating foraged veggies in the future, but it would not be her first instinct.

little_e · Jun 4, 2012

I see.
Catching the buggers would be tricky, anyway.

Food solution needed

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