'08 Obama Voters

Magdalen · May 24, 2012

A vote is a terrible thing to waste! I agree with Poet*

I'd like to have the option to vote for the candidate I absolutely Don't Want To Win. Since politics has become so negative, I'd like to have a pre-printed circle or square for "None of the Above" as that would better represent my choice. Is that too much to ask?

*most of the time I do

benbradley · May 24, 2012

Another non-Obama voter sneaking in here.

Jersey Chick said:
No, but only because I dislike the Republican field of candidates more than I dislike Obama.

It's something close to this attitude that makes people decide not to vote at all, rather than "waste" their vote on, say, Mickey Mouse. He's probably as rich as Romney, with the Copyright law on his side.

Xelebes said:
Is ____ a four letter word?

G-o-v-t?

Don said:
What's the tipping point where people start taking a third-party candidate seriously? He's polled at 7% recently both nationally and in New Hampshire, and in Arizona at 9%, IIRC.

I don't get the "wasting your vote" argument. I figure it's a wasted vote if I'm voting for somebody I really don't want in the office just to avoid somebody even worse. But even that argument's only valid in the swing states, where one's vote might actually mean something.

I think people who live in a solidly red or blue state could safely vote for any third-party candidate as a way of showing their displeasure with the two-party system. I'd even argue that anyone displeased with the current offerings who lives in a solid (non-swing) state and doesn't vote for a third party is one of those who are wasting their vote.

I think the tipping point would be when a third-party candidate gets elected. I can see it - the news organizations would spend more time asking the major party candidates what went wrong with their campaigns than they would covering the winner.

Magdalen said:
A vote is a terrible thing to waste! I agree with Poet*

I'd like to have the option to vote for the candidate I absolutely Don't Want To Win. Since politics has become so negative, I'd like to have a pre-printed circle or square for "None of the Above" as that would better represent my choice. Is that too much to ask?

*most of the time I do

I recall in 2008 NPR interviewed the four "fringe" candidates who were on the Presidential ballot (in most states). That's four ways to vote against the two major parties. I don't know how many there will be this year, but I'll be voting for one of them.

RichardGarfinkle · May 25, 2012

To some extent the problem with third parties and wasted votes is that we only see them on the presidential scale where the conventional wisdom is that they can't win.

But even if one could, he or she would have no legislative backing. The US system of government has a need for people to work together to get things done.

Third parties run mostly on ideology, but government is a matter of practicality. They need to prove themselves before voters take them seriously (or catch a wave of sudden ideology, you never know).

I think that the third parties probably need to start at lower levels. If they can elect enough state legislators they can acquire enough leverage to change how the balloting is done in their states. Also if they can bring forth local and state legislation they can show people the value of their position relative to the major parties.

Once that happens they'll have an easier time electing Representatives and Senators and evnetually presidential candidates. And, given our corrupt system an easier time getting money.

Oh wel..

Maxinquaye · May 25, 2012

I totally agree with that, Richard. I've continually been amazed by why new attempts at party creation go for the top prize in politics, where they – if they actually won – would be a lame duck because they didn't invest in where the decision lays.

I think a more fruitful route for, say the Libertarian Party, would be to over the next ten years contest congressional seats and have a realistic aim of claiming 20 percent of Congress. They should forget about the Presidency. At this point in the party's evolution, it is out of reach.

Like moths drawn to a flame, every new party contest the presidency instead of congressional seats. I think it might be because congress is much messier, and the symbolic value of the presidency would be great. Until it was clear that they could get absolutely nothing done. Then the win would become negative, and the presidency would be seen as failed and horrible.

If a new party managed to gain 20 percent of the seats in Congress they could exert real power, and force the parties to compromise. Neither the democrats nor the republicans would be able to get legislation through without that 20 percent block.

But then you have the thing that libertarians aren't really interested in compromising about anything, as the “Nobody but Ron Paul”-thing shows. You have two large camps – the Paulites with maybe five percent of the vote, and the Libertarian Party with another five percent. And they refuse to cooperate unless purity is established.

Libertarians are impractical to the point that they disqualify themselves from being able to achieve their aims over time. I constantly shake my head over the libertarians.

Diana Hignutt · May 25, 2012

Yes. He lost me.

I remember crying with pride at the Inaugeration. My country finally did the right thing...we were free from the Military/Industrial Complex domination...human rights would return...special interests to be kicked to the curb...and we had overcome our racism as a country...

And then...

We've gotten into more wars...such that the reality is we will never again be without a perpetual state of war. Empire is our main national interest.

The War on Terror morphed into the War on the American Citizenry. Big Sis and her TSA and DHS goons doing their best Goerge Orwell impression.

We're still renditioning, Gitmo-ing, and torturing like there's no tomorrow, btw.

The "Most Clear and Transparent Administration" quickly became the most secretive.

The Lobbyists assumed their government jobs against Big O's promises that that would not happen.

Then, there were the onslaught of tyrannical fascist bills and executive orders...man signed with promises of unuse (so what?).

Now...I don't actually blame the economy on Obama...the collapse of our global economy based on international banking was coming anyway. Personally, I would have put the bank bailout money towards mortgage forgivenenss...the banks would have still gotten their money...and people would still be in their homes.

I'm also pissed about O's killing the space program...probably the only human endeavor that was really worth anything. (just my opinion, of course).

I'll be "wasting my vote" on a thrid party candidate.

Icedevimon · May 25, 2012

I'll be voting for Obama again. As a bisexual woman, republicans, their fascination with theocratic law, and their discriminating legislation against much of who I am scare the pants off me =<

Haggis · May 25, 2012

Meh. In the 1968 election, Humphrey vs. Nixon, I voted for Dick Gregory. I'm still convinced it was one of the best votes I ever cast. I'll be doing something similar this year, although I haven't yet decided which comedian will earn my vote.

RichardGarfinkle · May 25, 2012

Haggis said:
Meh. In the 1968 election, Humphrey vs. Nixon, I voted for Dick Gregory. I'm still convinced it was one of the best votes I ever cast. I'll be doing something similar this year, although I haven't yet decided which comedian will earn my vote.

'68 and you didn't vote for Pat Paulsen?
You are a traitor to the Comedianist cause!

Links for those too young to know about Pat Paulsen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Paulsen
http://www.paulsen.com/pat/

Don · May 25, 2012

RichardGarfinkle said:
'68 and you didn't vote for Pat Paulsen?
You are a traitor to the Comedianist cause!

Links for those too young to know about Pat Paulsen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Paulsen
http://www.paulsen.com/pat/

Best party name evar!

On his political affiliation: "I belong to the Straight Talking American Government Party, or STAG Party for short."

Roger J Carlson · May 25, 2012

I never tell anyone how I vote. Not even my wife. You're free to speculate, but you'd be wrong in some cases. I hate the idea of exit polls and will not participate. I think they should be illegal.

Still, I'll admit to having voted for the lesser of two evils. This year, however, I cannot decide which is lesser. I dislike both candidate equally, but for different reasons.

This year may be the first time I've strayed from the two parties.

robeiae · May 25, 2012

Haggis said:
Meh. In the 1968 election, Humphrey vs. Nixon, I voted for Dick Gregory. I'm still convinced it was one of the best votes I ever cast. I'll be doing something similar this year, although I haven't yet decided which comedian will earn my vote.

I'm contemplating jumping in to the race...

robeiae · May 25, 2012

Roger J Carlson said:
I never tell anyone how I vote. Not even my wife.

I like that. It's a good standard.

I'd never reveal who I voted for when the info was being demanded; I'd never take part in an exit poll and I don't do phone survey's on the matter. Ever.

But I'll talk about my votes among people for purposes of a a discussion. Like here.

raburrell · May 25, 2012

No, he hasn't lost me. I'm another of those who's a stronger supporter now than I was in '08.

I disagree with plenty he's done, but I also look at his list of accomplishments and believe he's done an admirable job given what he faced, both at the outset and since. I don't need anyone to agree with all my beliefs to feel he or she is an effective leader, so I see no appeal to voting for a third party. The major ones live in fantasy land anyhow.

And beyond that, the current mindset of the Republican Party is a travesty and I want them as far from power as humanly possible. At least until the grownups figure out how to take the reins again.

Roger J Carlson · May 25, 2012

robeiae said:
I'm contemplating jumping in to the race...

I'd probably vote for you...

...but then, I'd never tell you.

Diana Hignutt · May 25, 2012

robeiae said:
I'm contemplating jumping in to the race...

I would probably vote for you. You're reasonable.

robeiae · May 25, 2012

Roger J Carlson said:
I'd probably vote for you...

...but then, I'd never tell you.

Diana Hignutt said:
I would probably vote for you. You're reasonable.

Allllllllright! I've already pulled ahead of Gary Johnson...

Haggis · May 25, 2012

robeiae said:
I'm contemplating jumping in to the race...

Even you aren't funny enough to vote for.

Where's Thrilly when you need him?

Maze Runner · May 25, 2012

When I voted for Ralph Nader, either in '96 or 2000, a friend of mine told me that I wasted my vote. My response was, So you're saying that we should only vote for the candidate that we think is going to win?

But to look at it from the other side, in a close election, and yes if you are in a swing state, it is quite possible that a 3rd party candidate could tip the vote in what turns out to be the wrong direction. So it's easy to defend a 3rd party vote, but is it as easy to defend tens of thousands of 3rd party votes?

I donno, I can't fathom a Romney administration. It is about as distasteful to me as was a Bush The Younger administration, I and II. And yet, 3rd party candidates have the freedom to tell the truth, as radical of an idea as that seems to be. At this point, as crucial as every presidential election is, I just won't do it. Now, if Bernie Sanders were to run...

He's one of the few who's stayed on the big money is poisoning our policy argument, my favorite issue.

Maxx · May 25, 2012

raburrell said:
No, he hasn't lost me. I'm another of those who's a stronger supporter now than I was in '08.

I disagree with plenty he's done, but I also look at his list of accomplishments and believe he's done an admirable job given what he faced, both at the outset and since. I don't need anyone to agree with all my beliefs to feel he or she is an effective leader, so I see no appeal to voting for a third party. The major ones live in fantasy land anyhow.

And beyond that, the current mindset of the Republican Party is a travesty and I want them as far from power as humanly possible. At least until the grownups figure out how to take the reins again.

I agree completely. I often get the feeling that what people really don't like about Obama is that he is a realist and this associates him with reality which is where really bad news really comes from.

Maze Runner · May 25, 2012

RichardGarfinkle said:
To some extent the problem with third parties and wasted votes is that we only see them on the presidential scale where the conventional wisdom is that they can't win.

But even if one could, he or she would have no legislative backing. The US system of government has a need for people to work together to get things done.

Third parties run mostly on ideology, but government is a matter of practicality. They need to prove themselves before voters take them seriously (or catch a wave of sudden ideology, you never know).

I think that the third parties probably need to start at lower levels. If they can elect enough state legislators they can acquire enough leverage to change how the balloting is done in their states. Also if they can bring forth local and state legislation they can show people the value of their position relative to the major parties.

Once that happens they'll have an easier time electing Representatives and Senators and evnetually presidential candidates. And, given our corrupt system an easier time getting money.

Oh wel..

I've often thought the same thing. But they also wouldn't have representatives and senators of the opposing party warring with them just because they wear red or blue- sounds like the South Central gang wars of the '90's.

robeiae · May 25, 2012

Haggis said:
Even you aren't funny enough to vote for.

Oh, that's harsh.

I bleed, Haggis. I bleed.

Death Wizard · May 25, 2012

Haggis said:
Meh. In the 1968 election, Humphrey vs. Nixon, I voted for Dick Gregory. I'm still convinced it was one of the best votes I ever cast. I'll be doing something similar this year, although I haven't yet decided which comedian will earn my vote.

How are you going to make it into the booth?

Haggis · May 25, 2012

robeiae said:
Oh, that's harsh.

I bleed, Haggis. I bleed.

One can only hope, R-vowels.

Death Wizard said:
How are you going to make it into the booth?

The bloody corpse of robeiae should make a nice step stool.

Death Wizard · May 25, 2012

Bird of Prey · May 26, 2012

Haggis said:
Meh. In the 1968 election, Humphrey vs. Nixon, I voted for Dick Gregory. I'm still convinced it was one of the best votes I ever cast. I'll be doing something similar this year, although I haven't yet decided which comedian will earn my vote.

Jonathan Winters still has my vote. . . .

'08 Obama Voters

Petulantly Penitent

It's a doggy dog world

Nurture Phoenixes

That cheeky buggerer

Very Tired

Queen of Darkness

Evil, undead Chihuahua

Nurture Phoenixes

All Living is Local

Moderator In Name Only

Touch and go

Touch and go

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee

Moderator In Name Only

Very Tired

Touch and go

Evil, undead Chihuahua

Got the hang of it, here

Touch and go

Tumhe na koci puujetha

Evil, undead Chihuahua

Tumhe na koci puujetha

Benefactor Member