-
Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.
Algora Publishing
- Thread starter TrixieBelden
- Start date
Hideous website. 
Non-fiction only, mostly textbook-type, which is how they justify their high prices. Some of their Political Science books were formerly pulished by Agathon Press. Unless you have a book for a niche market, I'd pass.
Non-fiction only, mostly textbook-type, which is how they justify their high prices. Some of their Political Science books were formerly pulished by Agathon Press. Unless you have a book for a niche market, I'd pass.
Quest for Algora Publishing Information
Does anyone have more information on Algora Publishing? I found three posts but nothing of great significance. The Better Business Bureau rates them with a B but I believe that's because of a lack of information. Some folks gawk at their website but that's not the information I'm looking for. I realize they're an online publisher, not one that expects to be flooding bookstores, I'm just wondering if they are legit and not a rip-off.
Does anyone have more information on Algora Publishing? I found three posts but nothing of great significance. The Better Business Bureau rates them with a B but I believe that's because of a lack of information. Some folks gawk at their website but that's not the information I'm looking for. I realize they're an online publisher, not one that expects to be flooding bookstores, I'm just wondering if they are legit and not a rip-off.
Reading the website it looks like the same old bullshit but from a slightly more established "independent" publisher.
The "big houses" publish new authors every week. To pitch a non-fiction book to a "big house" it helps to have an agent or failing that, a platform - but even that isn't a necessity. If you've written a good book about a subject that people are likely to be interested in, then you've got a good chance of getting it published.
Bollocks. See above.
As a side note, the focus on independent bookstores suggests that they are not interested in getting books into chain stores, which is a mistake given that is (sadly) where most people buy their books.
6 months is a tight turn around and arguably insufficient to launch a really effective marketing campaign for a book. I'd also be concerned at the suggestion that authors may not have to submit a completed manuscript in time either.
This doesn't fill me with confidence. Real editors don't just do a spell check and once over, they work with the author for months to make sure that the manuscript is the best it can be - that can mean going through several iterations. This suggests that Algora isn't prepared to make that kind of editorial investment.
While authors should be prepared to work with their publishers on publicity, they shouldn't be making the suggestions. This makes it sound as though Algora will only do what the author wants, when it should be out there coming up with ideas for its authors.
Again, this is what Algora should be doing. If they can't even come up with a marketing blurb, then it suggests that they're not interested in actively selling the book.
Again, this is what Algora should be doing. If they don't know/can't work out the likely market, what are they doing accepting it?
This suggests that Algora is taking worldwide rights to the work. If it can't sell books in the US, what makes it think it can sell rights worldwide?
A publisher's role shouldn't be confined to placing ads. It should be thinking of other things it can do - e.g. organising interviews, helping get books into stores for signings etc. That doesn't all fall on the author.
That's not a get out of jail free card. Even if it's targeting specialised markets, Algora should still know how to access readers within that markets without relying on the work of its authors.
This suggests to me that Algora either isn't doing print runs or isn't able/willing to agree commercial terms with the chainstores to get their books stored within them.
If your books are only available on-line then you'll have a harder battle getting people to know about them. People like going into stores and browsing the shelves for titles - it's still how most books are sold and it's hard to do on-line.
Even small specialised publishers can get their books into stores.
That's great if you only want your neighbours and friends to know about your book. What happens if you want complete strangers to buy it? Do you have to go out there and tell them?
Bookstore events only work if a publisher can get the books out there. It's not clear if Algora will supply books for free (which it should be doing) or whether an author will have to buy their own copies to sell on.
Way to go with not answering the question.
If the book's out of stock it's either because (a) Algora hasn't got a supply contract in place to keep books in stock or (b) Algora's using POD, which means that the book doesn't physically exist until it's ordered.
Uh-huh. And what about genuine pre-release sales?
Bollocks. Plenty of publishers can meet bookstore terms and do so. If Algora doesn't want to because it can't make money from it, then it suggests that they don't have a great business model in terms of selling to the public.
Utter gobshite and utterly misleading gobshite.
Translation: we're not going to tell you how many free copies you'll get, but be prepared to buy some at a discount. Oh and by the way, you might have to buy copies to send to reviewers as well (which should be our job to do for free but we're not doing that because it means having to actually work).
Translation: no, you can't have an advance. We believe in your independent voice so much that we're not prepared to pay for it up front and by the way, look how much we're paying (without actually giving you figures) to show how much we believe in your book without paying for it up front.
All in all, nothing there that would make me send a manuscript to them.
MM
The "big houses" publish new authors every week. To pitch a non-fiction book to a "big house" it helps to have an agent or failing that, a platform - but even that isn't a necessity. If you've written a good book about a subject that people are likely to be interested in, then you've got a good chance of getting it published.
Bollocks. See above.
Erm ... which should bookstores and readers go to Algora? If Algora has such faith in its authors, then they should be out there getting the books into independent bookstores and the general public.
As a side note, the focus on independent bookstores suggests that they are not interested in getting books into chain stores, which is a mistake given that is (sadly) where most people buy their books.
6 months is a tight turn around and arguably insufficient to launch a really effective marketing campaign for a book. I'd also be concerned at the suggestion that authors may not have to submit a completed manuscript in time either.
This doesn't fill me with confidence. Real editors don't just do a spell check and once over, they work with the author for months to make sure that the manuscript is the best it can be - that can mean going through several iterations. This suggests that Algora isn't prepared to make that kind of editorial investment.
While authors should be prepared to work with their publishers on publicity, they shouldn't be making the suggestions. This makes it sound as though Algora will only do what the author wants, when it should be out there coming up with ideas for its authors.
Again, this is what Algora should be doing. If they can't even come up with a marketing blurb, then it suggests that they're not interested in actively selling the book.
Again, this is what Algora should be doing. If they don't know/can't work out the likely market, what are they doing accepting it?
This suggests that Algora is taking worldwide rights to the work. If it can't sell books in the US, what makes it think it can sell rights worldwide?
A publisher's role shouldn't be confined to placing ads. It should be thinking of other things it can do - e.g. organising interviews, helping get books into stores for signings etc. That doesn't all fall on the author.
That's not a get out of jail free card. Even if it's targeting specialised markets, Algora should still know how to access readers within that markets without relying on the work of its authors.
This suggests to me that Algora either isn't doing print runs or isn't able/willing to agree commercial terms with the chainstores to get their books stored within them.
If your books are only available on-line then you'll have a harder battle getting people to know about them. People like going into stores and browsing the shelves for titles - it's still how most books are sold and it's hard to do on-line.
Even small specialised publishers can get their books into stores.
That's great if you only want your neighbours and friends to know about your book. What happens if you want complete strangers to buy it? Do you have to go out there and tell them?
Bookstore events only work if a publisher can get the books out there. It's not clear if Algora will supply books for free (which it should be doing) or whether an author will have to buy their own copies to sell on.
Way to go with not answering the question.
If the book's out of stock it's either because (a) Algora hasn't got a supply contract in place to keep books in stock or (b) Algora's using POD, which means that the book doesn't physically exist until it's ordered.
Uh-huh. And what about genuine pre-release sales?
Bollocks. Plenty of publishers can meet bookstore terms and do so. If Algora doesn't want to because it can't make money from it, then it suggests that they don't have a great business model in terms of selling to the public.
Utter gobshite and utterly misleading gobshite.
Translation: we're not going to tell you how many free copies you'll get, but be prepared to buy some at a discount. Oh and by the way, you might have to buy copies to send to reviewers as well (which should be our job to do for free but we're not doing that because it means having to actually work).
Translation: no, you can't have an advance. We believe in your independent voice so much that we're not prepared to pay for it up front and by the way, look how much we're paying (without actually giving you figures) to show how much we believe in your book without paying for it up front.
All in all, nothing there that would make me send a manuscript to them.
MM
As a person who has had two books published by Algora, I find your contempt for the company interesting. Perhaps you're not aware that people who produce specialized research (which is what Algora publishes) tend to have a firm grasp on their subjects and an in-depth understanding of issues, along with considerable skills in the field of professional writing. This leads to the expectation of a fundamental capacity to deliver a suitable product, requiring limited editor input.
The writer's devotion (and probably years of investment) on topics of private interest often involve things like human rights, statelessness, refugees, etc. for which a mass market doesn't exist. Yet they contribute important work. My book on the war in the DRC provided the factual foundation for the Harvard UN Model of 2010, with the potential to bring about change. It also led to an article in The Journal, of the UK. The general public doesn't care (and the majority probably don't know) that this war is the biggest since WWII with over 5 million dead as of 2005.
Is it important? Hell yes. Do I give a damn if you think it's interesting or suitable for mass markets? Hell no.
The chance to reach just one mind that could help the DRC is why I wrote the book.
It isn't about mass markets, publicity or money. For being able to reach the people I have, Algora has my gratitude, loyalty and respect.
The writer's devotion (and probably years of investment) on topics of private interest often involve things like human rights, statelessness, refugees, etc. for which a mass market doesn't exist. Yet they contribute important work. My book on the war in the DRC provided the factual foundation for the Harvard UN Model of 2010, with the potential to bring about change. It also led to an article in The Journal, of the UK. The general public doesn't care (and the majority probably don't know) that this war is the biggest since WWII with over 5 million dead as of 2005.
Is it important? Hell yes. Do I give a damn if you think it's interesting or suitable for mass markets? Hell no.
The chance to reach just one mind that could help the DRC is why I wrote the book.
It isn't about mass markets, publicity or money. For being able to reach the people I have, Algora has my gratitude, loyalty and respect.
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,704
- Reaction score
- 1,315
- Location
- Far from the madding crowd
- Website
- www.victoriastrauss.com
I recently saw an Algora contract, and it has a number of nonstandard aspects, including some very confused and ambiguous copyright language.
- Victoria
- Victoria
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 6,137
- Reaction score
- 694
My initial contracts were in 2005 & 2006 when there honestly weren't any. However, I'm waiting on a third one now and if there are non-standard provisions and/or confusing language, they're very agreeable people and I'm sure we'll hammer them out.
They're not a money mill, but they're kind, considerate, knowledgeable and professional with a really fervent interest in bettering life for all.
They're not a money mill, but they're kind, considerate, knowledgeable and professional with a really fervent interest in bettering life for all.
? [Reply to sqrl]
What I said wasn't meant to be snotty. My first ms got kicked back to me because I wasn't familiar with their organizational preferences, so even if you're academically qualified, there are expectations they'll want you to meet before they spend time on your ms.
What I said wasn't meant to be snotty. My first ms got kicked back to me because I wasn't familiar with their organizational preferences, so even if you're academically qualified, there are expectations they'll want you to meet before they spend time on your ms.
Last edited:
Actually, I am aware of the world of specialised research. My father is a military historian (a market that is highly specialised) and yet for every one of his 6 books, he was offered contracts with advance paying commercial publishers and his books appear in UK commercial book stores. In addition, he had an editor for each of those 8 books who drew his attention to any inconsistencies in his text, areas where his arguments could be strengthened etc etc etc. As an experienced academic, you are surely aware that editing isn't just about proper spelling and punctuation.
How much editing help did you get for your books and what was the nature of that help?
Did they get any of your money? Specifically, have you had to buy copies of your books?
MM
Last edited:
The sum of editing influence was an omission of one line of argument, nonessential to the second book. In the first, I ended up paraphrasing a document with an inadequate French translation. Analysis is different from history in that it's informed by the disciplines of the person conducting it. There were ideological differences, but these had no impact on the final published work.
As for the second question, why do you assume I just crawled out of the turnip patch? I paid nothing for anything. Their outfit is legitimate and I can't see why you're suggesting otherwise simply because they're not a money mill.
Did your father get the magnificent PR roll-out you seem to think a small eclectic press should be able to afford?
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 6,137
- Reaction score
- 694
I didn't think you were being snotty. I was just curious about the mismatch between your perception and theirs.
Welcome to AW, Jeanne Haskin!
We do appreciate you coming here to provide more data points about your publisher.
I certainly understand that small presses expect more from their authors, but I do find this bit that MM quoted from the site troubling:
The primary way a publisher makes money is by getting books into the hands of readers. Publicity and marketing are part of those expenses, IMO.
I find the seeming disdain for "traditional" bookstore distribution a bit odd. I understand it's not cheap, but it's also possible for a small press to nurture those relationships with booksellers on their own. I was talking with the owner of a small press just the other day, and he was telling me how he's on the verge of getting his books in B&N. He's doing it himself, without going through a distributor. It takes a lot of hard work, but it can be done.
From their FAQ:
The rest generally includes textbooks, government public, and very specialized books that will never sell in bookstores. Those books on my pulmonologist's shelf about what I'd consider semi-obscure knowledge about the lungs won't be on the bookstore shelves, but they sell to folks with a specialty in Pulmonary Medicine. And they may sell well for their niche, I don't know.
However, even with the numbers they give, are you missing out on 35% of sales by not having bookstore placement? Of course, your books may be in one of those niche specialty groups, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And this is what we like to see as a data point. Are your books selling? Is your publisher getting them into the hands of your target audience? If they are, good for them. This is the kind of thing that helps other writers make a decision on whether or not to submit to them.
We do appreciate you coming here to provide more data points about your publisher.
I certainly understand that small presses expect more from their authors, but I do find this bit that MM quoted from the site troubling:
The primary way a publisher makes money is by getting books into the hands of readers. Publicity and marketing are part of those expenses, IMO.
I find the seeming disdain for "traditional" bookstore distribution a bit odd. I understand it's not cheap, but it's also possible for a small press to nurture those relationships with booksellers on their own. I was talking with the owner of a small press just the other day, and he was telling me how he's on the verge of getting his books in B&N. He's doing it himself, without going through a distributor. It takes a lot of hard work, but it can be done.
From their FAQ:
The rest generally includes textbooks, government public, and very specialized books that will never sell in bookstores. Those books on my pulmonologist's shelf about what I'd consider semi-obscure knowledge about the lungs won't be on the bookstore shelves, but they sell to folks with a specialty in Pulmonary Medicine. And they may sell well for their niche, I don't know.
However, even with the numbers they give, are you missing out on 35% of sales by not having bookstore placement? Of course, your books may be in one of those niche specialty groups, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And this is what we like to see as a data point. Are your books selling? Is your publisher getting them into the hands of your target audience? If they are, good for them. This is the kind of thing that helps other writers make a decision on whether or not to submit to them.
I have never been offered cost-sharing and don't have distribution data beyond summary reports and what I read online. However, I do know through WorldCat that my books are in places I need them to be, like the Peace Palace Library at the Hague (the center of international law). That, for me, is an honor I never expected.
And thanks for the welcome.
Time permitting, I hope to explore other threads.
And thanks for the welcome.
Time permitting, I hope to explore other threads.
Last edited:
For sqrl:
Today's contract includes the following terms:
(a) Author’s responsibilities: It is the responsibility of Author to provide a “clean” manuscript, free of typographical errors, misspellings, and grammatical errors, and to ensure that names, facts, and dates are accurate. The cost of any
corrections requested by Author after the book has been sent to the printer is to be incurred by Author.
(b) Publisher’s Free Services: Publisher will seek to verify the logical flow and consistency of the argument presented in the manuscript, flagging stereotypes, clichés, unsupported allegations or conclusions, unscientific premises,
hearsay, and other matters that may be of concern. Publisher will also perform a spot check for misspellings, grammatical errors, etc.
(c) Editing: Publisher is entitled to take, or to require Author to take (on his/her own, or at his/her own expense), the necessary steps to trim down excessive verbiage, streamline the logical flow, and address any other matters that may appear to be of concern to Publisher, to make corrections to name spellings, typographical errors, agrammatical constructions, and punctuation, etc., and to make stylistic and formatting changes, etc., consistent with accepted English-language standards and book publishing standards. Finally, Publisher has the right to require Author
provide further supporting references to substantiate Author’s arguments.
Although previously unspecified, the terms applied to both of my earlier books and didn't prove problematic.
~Jeanne
Today's contract includes the following terms:
(a) Author’s responsibilities: It is the responsibility of Author to provide a “clean” manuscript, free of typographical errors, misspellings, and grammatical errors, and to ensure that names, facts, and dates are accurate. The cost of any
corrections requested by Author after the book has been sent to the printer is to be incurred by Author.
(b) Publisher’s Free Services: Publisher will seek to verify the logical flow and consistency of the argument presented in the manuscript, flagging stereotypes, clichés, unsupported allegations or conclusions, unscientific premises,
hearsay, and other matters that may be of concern. Publisher will also perform a spot check for misspellings, grammatical errors, etc.
(c) Editing: Publisher is entitled to take, or to require Author to take (on his/her own, or at his/her own expense), the necessary steps to trim down excessive verbiage, streamline the logical flow, and address any other matters that may appear to be of concern to Publisher, to make corrections to name spellings, typographical errors, agrammatical constructions, and punctuation, etc., and to make stylistic and formatting changes, etc., consistent with accepted English-language standards and book publishing standards. Finally, Publisher has the right to require Author
provide further supporting references to substantiate Author’s arguments.
Although previously unspecified, the terms applied to both of my earlier books and didn't prove problematic.
~Jeanne
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,704
- Reaction score
- 1,315
- Location
- Far from the madding crowd
- Website
- www.victoriastrauss.com
Jeanne, would you be willing to share the copyright and rights reversion provisions? Thanks!
- Victoria
- Victoria
By "magnificant PR roll-out" I assume you're referring to these comments of mine:
While my dad's book was going through revisions with the editor, preview versions of the manuscript were sent out to the major military history magazines and journals (the main list consisted of contacts from the publisher's own marketing department and my father added 4 contacts of his own). Reviews published immediately prior to the book being available. I think that on average it was about 9 months from submission of manuscript to the publication date, which gave the publisher enough time to build word of mouth in the target market.
What did Algora do for you in the interim period between submission and publication?
The main publicity and marketing suggestions came from each publisher's in house team. They knew academics to target for reading lists (and my father's books on World War II and the Chinese civil war are on course lists for several UK universities including King's College War Studies Department). Where my dad was asked for suggestions, it was to supplement the work the publishers were already doing.
In contrast the information on Algora's website suggests that the marketing ideas need to come from the author. That's simply not an efficient way of doing things.
What did Algora produce in terms of marketing ideas for your book and how did that compare with the suggestions you made to them?
Algora needs the author to identify the target markets. My dad was published with specialist publishers who knew the market in advance and what they could sell to it - this is why they picked his book.
Did Algora suggest any potential markets beyond those that you identified or did this not figure in negotiations?
My dad's publishers didn't take out adverts because the cost of doing so wasn't effective - it was cheaper and more efficient to get a review done in those journals because the readers were more likely to pay attention to it.
In addition, the last publisher my dad went with also tapped into his day job reputation and suggested and helped him to get roles in conferences relating to his areas of expertise. He does a couple each year, mainly chairing panels and discussions. He would never have come up with that on his own.
Which publications did Algora advertise your book in?
I could go on, but I think I've made my point.
MM
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,704
- Reaction score
- 1,315
- Location
- Far from the madding crowd
- Website
- www.victoriastrauss.com
Nonstandard aspects of the Algora contract I saw--which was presented to the author as the company's standard contract:
- Royalties paid annually (even the slow-as-molasses big houses pay semi-annually).
- A grant of rights "in perpetuity" (even though no one can claim rights beyond the duration of copyright) with no provision at all for rights reversion.
- A copyright notice printed in the book in the publisher's name, rather than in the author's, which suggests a transfer of copyright, although the grant of rights language is so vague that this could possibly be challenged.
- Victoria
- Royalties paid annually (even the slow-as-molasses big houses pay semi-annually).
- A grant of rights "in perpetuity" (even though no one can claim rights beyond the duration of copyright) with no provision at all for rights reversion.
- A copyright notice printed in the book in the publisher's name, rather than in the author's, which suggests a transfer of copyright, although the grant of rights language is so vague that this could possibly be challenged.
- Victoria
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2008
- Messages
- 6,137
- Reaction score
- 694
It still concerns me that Algora's justification for not paying an advance is the amount of work required on their part to turn 'raw' mss into saleable books whereas Jeanne's justification for the short lead-in time is that the mss provided are already of publishable quality. Both cannot be right. Even attempting to reconcile those two positions makes my tail curl.
In short, if a print-ready ms is provided, then, by Algora's own argument, an advance *should* be paid. Yet I see no provision for that in the quotes MM has kindly provided. Looks weasly to me.
In short, if a print-ready ms is provided, then, by Algora's own argument, an advance *should* be paid. Yet I see no provision for that in the quotes MM has kindly provided. Looks weasly to me.
I (and others) have been selling a few (not many) books but haven't received royalties from Algora Publishing in NYC in over a decade. Their reason was simply that "we were overpaid" with no proof or further explanation, and that there were no sales. However, I know there were sales because I have been in contact with people who have. I have three books with them. All was fine for 10 years and then they got nasty. I just hope this doesn't happen to more authors who work so hard just for the publishers to keep every penny.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2013
- Messages
- 11,733
- Reaction score
- 10,518
- Location
- In my head
- Website
- thewanderingquille.blogspot.com
Thanks for sharing, Ana. This kind of update is heartbreaking but so important.