Another Weasel Apology

Don

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Agorism FTW!
Isn't electing one of those "they"s to the Presidency of the United States going to make it impossible for anyone in the world to avoid "a specific hallway"
Yep, and I can see the Middle East as Romney's "specific hallway," and him running around it with Carriers, insisting on military haircuts for everybody, or else.

Our foreign policy is atrocious enough without putting a bully in charge of the biggest paddles in the world.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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By that reasoning, any evil anywhere is just part of life and should never be fixed, nor should the doers of it ever need to express contrition or try to make amends.
not quite sure how you extrapolate one person's childhood reactions, in this case mine, to make it applicable to anyone else or the world.

I do find romney's reaction to his past interesting. Even if he didn't feel remorse for his past actions, as someone running for the highest office he should at least pretend to be sorry and regretful.

I'm not sure what it says about him that he didn't.
 

Xelebes

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I do find romney's reaction to his past interesting. Even if he didn't feel remorse for his past actions, as someone running for the highest office he should at least pretend to be sorry and regretful.

Agree.

I'm not sure what it says about him that he didn't.

By itself, yes. As a puzzle-piece though. . .
 

Williebee

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Yep, and I can see the Middle East as Romney's "specific hallway," and him running around it with Carriers, insisting on military haircuts for everybody, or else.

Our foreign policy is atrocious enough without putting a bully in charge of the biggest paddles in the world.

It is a little bit of a stretch, granted, but past history (Bain, for example) would seem to indicate that he is more likely to see the Middle East as "product" or "markets" before seeing them as people.
 

muravyets

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It was a part of growing up. They were just there. They existed as part of your life. You learned not to take a certain way to school. Or to avoid a specific hallway in school at a certain time. In grade school, you learned not to be exposed, stay with the group, or play near the playground teacher. Or you learned to run fast. High school was different. It seemed the bullies ran in groups, often part of the football team, or student counsel. They'd hang out at the cool doors, so you'd find other entrances to school, or you'd hang off of school property until the bell rang and you knew they'd be inside going to class.
That's one of the saddest things I've ever read. I feel sorry that your experiences caused you to have to live like that, because it's not right and it was not fair to you.

Bullies are not just "there" like the rain. They are people who don't have any more privilege than anyone else to dictate how the game of life gets played.
 

JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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It is a little bit of a stretch, granted, but past history (Bain, for example) would seem to indicate that he is more likely to see the Middle East as "product" or "markets" before seeing them as people.
The Middle East? He sees most of the US (and her residents) as products and market.
Bullies are not just "there" like the rain. They are people who don't have any more privilege than anyone else to dictate how the game of life gets played.
Yeah, Shadow, you kind of relegated your bullies to plot devices in your lifestory--which, as a coping mechanism, probably served your childself well--but they were whole human beings with their own stories, many of whom doubtless terrorized others and some of whom may even have grown up and gone into politics. The sort of "that's the way it's always been done" is what stymies so many of the current attempts to combat bullying. And while we may not be able to go back in a time machine to do anything about Mitt's bullying, we can address his current attitude that this sort of thing is par for the course.
 
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Opty

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MOD Note:

I'd be real hesitant to analyze another member's past, let alone suggest how they should feel about it.

Hmm....interezting.

Now zen, tell me about your mother und why you hate your father...


*puffs pipe*
 
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JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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*puffs pipe*
Is this one of those sits where a pipe isn't really a pipe?

Where did this thread go?

By that reasoning, any evil anywhere is just part of life and should never be fixed, nor should the doers of it ever need to express contrition or try to make amends.
This was the point I was reiterating. Sorry if things got too personal.
 

TerzaRima

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Bullies are not just "there" like the rain. They are people who don't have any more privilege than anyone else to dictate how the game of life gets played.

I kind of get Ferret on this one. Some of you whippersnappers (say, born during the Reagan administration or later) may not understand the culture vis-a vis supervision of children--in school and at home--has changed completely. Kids used to conduct their friendships, walk to school, and spend a lot of time only in the presence of other children--unsupervised. Generally adults were only brought in when someone got badly hurt. The word bullying wasn't even routinely used. I'm not saying these circumstances were great; I'm saying that they tended to foster an atmosphere such that what Romney and his little pals did was not uncommon.
 

muravyets

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I kind of get Ferret on this one. Some of you whippersnappers (say, born during the Reagan administration or later) may not understand the culture vis-a vis supervision of children--in school and at home--has changed completely. Kids used to conduct their friendships, walk to school, and spend a lot of time only in the presence of other children--unsupervised. Generally adults were only brought in when someone got badly hurt. The word bullying wasn't even routinely used. I'm not saying these circumstances were great; I'm saying that they tended to foster an atmosphere such that what Romney and his little pals did was not uncommon.
Well, you guys must be as old as dirt, because I'm almost 50, and the word "bullying" was indeed used regularly when I was in school and had to deal with them, by parents, kids, teachers, school administrators, and even the cops they used to trot into elementary school classes to give us law and order pep talks -- including talks about how to deal with bullies. The word had not somehow been lost to the English language by the time I got into high school, either.

The only new thing about bullying it seems is that people give a shit about it in public more loudly than ever. If there ever was a time when no one cared about bullying (and to be honest, I don't believe there was; just different ways of talking about it), those days are over. The class has moved on. I suggest Romney do as Obama did and "evolve" in his viewpoint, lest he be left behind with the rest of the obsolete junk the world doesn't need anymore.
 

TerzaRima

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Well, you guys must be as old as dirt, because I'm almost 50, and the word "bullying" was indeed used regularly when I was in school and had to deal with them, by parents, kids, teachers, school administrators, and even the cops they used to trot into elementary school classes to give us law and order pep talks -- including talks about how to deal with bullies. The word had not somehow been lost to the English language by the time I got into high school, either.

Mm. I'm a few years younger than you, and my experience was quite a bit different. Perhaps the difference is regional.
 

muravyets

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Mm. I'm a few years younger than you, and my experience was quite a bit different. Perhaps the difference is regional.
I wouldn't dispute anyone's past experience. The only thing I'll challenge is the suggestion that a thing that was no biggie back in the day should continue to be no biggie now. My view is that, as I said, the class as moved on. We've learned.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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I kind of get Ferret on this one. Some of you whippersnappers (say, born during the Reagan administration or later) may not understand the culture vis-a vis supervision of children--in school and at home--has changed completely. Kids used to conduct their friendships, walk to school, and spend a lot of time only in the presence of other children--unsupervised. Generally adults were only brought in when someone got badly hurt. The word bullying wasn't even routinely used. I'm not saying these circumstances were great; I'm saying that they tended to foster an atmosphere such that what Romney and his little pals did was not uncommon.

Well, you guys must be as old as dirt, because I'm almost 50, and the word "bullying" was indeed used regularly when I was in school and had to deal with them, by parents, kids, teachers, school administrators, and even the cops they used to trot into elementary school classes to give us law and order pep talks -- including talks about how to deal with bullies. The word had not somehow been lost to the English language by the time I got into high school, either.

The only new thing about bullying it seems is that people give a shit about it in public more loudly than ever. If there ever was a time when no one cared about bullying (and to be honest, I don't believe there was; just different ways of talking about it), those days are over. The class has moved on. I suggest Romney do as Obama did and "evolve" in his viewpoint, lest he be left behind with the rest of the obsolete junk the world doesn't need anymore.

I'm with muravyets. I am 50, and we did know about bullying when I was a kid. Some adults did victim blaming, some helped, some were indifferent. But we and they did know about it.

But it may be regional. I'm from New York originally.
 

JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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It was nothing like the hot topic it is today--back when I was a young'n in California. But people talked about Bullies--you knew what they were and who. When I was in junior high I recall the school being "locked down" (only time anything even remotely like it happened) when one girl's mom came to the school hellbent on...something a day after her daughter was attacked by several other girls.

I do know for a fact that some bullying was overlooked--if not winked at--by the faculty. I was a moderately fey kid and someone painted female genitals on my locker (and we are talking larger than life size). After a couple of days of avoiding my locker--along with the janitor and several instructors (even tho it was located in the hall right outside of their classrooms)--I demanded it be cleaned and it was. It didn't dawn on me until many years later that the faculty was in fact condoning the bullying by ignoring it (mostly it didn't dawn on me because I had pretty high self-esteem, I think). But I remember there was a very "stand up for yourself" sort of vibe. And, of course, if kids were killing themselves (and I suppose they were) we never heard about it. The first suicide I ever knew personally was in college.
 
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TerzaRima

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I am 50, and we did know about bullying when I was a kid. Some adults did victim blaming, some helped, some were indifferent. But we and they did know about it.

I'm not saying no one knew about it or talked about it. I'm saying its role in the cultural landscape was quite different, which is an entirely distinct thing from approving of it. People thought about it differently.
I do know for a fact that some bullying was overlooked--if not winked at--by the faculty.

Good Lord, yes. This is part of the difference I'm trying, without success, to express. There was not always the expectation that a teacher would protect you.
 

nighttimer

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I'm not willing to be "outraged" over something that was not considered outrageous in the place and time it occurred in. If, after all the advances and education available since that time, that event was to occur today? That would be outrageous.

That is a very dangerous attitude to take, Williebee.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I interpret what you are saying is if the behavior was not considered outrageous in which it occurred because it was acceptable or normal at that time, you are not outraged by it now.

I disagree with that perspective. Wrong is wrong and merely because homophobic harassment was considered normal when Mitt Romney was a teenager, it still doesn't make it right. Some things don't need the progression of time and the growth of enlightenment to go from acceptable to unacceptable behavior

Case in point:

segregation.jpg


Segregation was not simply the law in the South, it was part of the customs and cultures of the South. Nobody saw anything wrong with calling a fully grown Negro a "boy" or worse. There was nothing outrageous about White men putting a darkie who had forgotten his place and gotten uppity back in his place. Often violently and sometimes fatally.

I don't think Mitt's high school hijinks are all that important. Maybe he did forget (I don't know how) and maybe he was just a rich, pampered brat who was a prick toward gay classmates.

What I do believe is important is Mitt's lack of empathy and inability to relate to how human beings are affected adversely when "their betters" choose to play with them like toys. Mittens does not relate to ordinary Americans in a way that even for most wealthy men, he is ill-suited to represent the millions of citizens who weren't born with a silver spoon stuck up their ass.

Mitt may win, but he will never relate.
 
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Alpha Echo

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That is a very dangerous attitude to take, Williebee.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I interpret what you are saying is if the behavior was not considered outrageous in which it occurred because it was acceptable or normal at that time, you are not outraged by it now.

I disagree with that perspective. Wrong is wrong and merely because homophobic harassment was considered normal when Mitt Romney was a teenager, it still doesn't make it right. Some things don't need the progression of time and the growth of enlightenment to go from acceptable to unacceptable behavior

Case in point:

segregation.jpg


Segregation was not simply the law in the South, it was part of the customs and cultures of the South. Nobody saw anything wrong with calling a fully grown Negro a "boy" or worse. There was nothing outrageous about White men putting a darkie who had forgotten his place and gotten uppity back in his place. Often violently and sometimes fatally.

I don't think Mitt's high school hijinks are all that important. Maybe he did forget (I don't know how) and maybe he was just a rich, pampered brat who was a prick toward gay classmates.

What I do believe is important is Mitt's lack of empathy and inability to relate to how human beings are affected adversely when "their betters" choose to play with them like toys. Mittens does not relate to ordinary Americans in a way that even for most wealthy men, he is ill-suited to represent the millions of citizens who weren't born with a silver spoon stuck up their ass.

Mitt may win, but he will never relate.

I agree with this all. Just wanted to make that known. I'm honestly surprised a bit, Willibee, with your take on the situation. What happened is appalling whether it happened yesterday, 100 years ago, or 1000.

And everything else nighttimer said.