Another Weasel Apology

Smiling Ted

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According to the Washington Post, in high school, Romney decided another student had hair that was too long, so he and four other kids pinned him down to the ground and cut it off.

Now listen to Romney's "apology." I used to just dismiss him as a clever manager without much conviction. But not any more. That nonapology just makes me puke.

"Hijinks"? Right.
Five against one.
 

Williebee

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Really? The Washington Post dug up stuff from high school? Talk about missing the point.

ETA: The Post doesn't have enough to focus on in the man's adult life? This is an election for President.

Another ETA: It occurred to me, suddenly, that -- were this this decade, and had the school a "zero tolerance" policy in place. Gov. Romney might not be eligible to be President, what with the criminal record this event might have given him. (Relevance? No. Just wandered through my head.)
 
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raburrell

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I get that it was high school, and it's not like I was ever going to vote for the guy regardless, but this makes him an even bigger dick than I imagined.

This is the kind of stuff kids kill themselves over. And that's as true back then as it is today.

eta: And according to this, the kid did not fare well in the aftermath: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ncident_reported_by_the_washington_post_.html
Lauber, who was later expelled from Cranbrook for smoking a cigarette, eventually came out and lived a “vagabond” life, according to Horowitz, who spoke with Lauber’s sisters. He died in 2004.
 
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Icedevimon

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This is really disturbing. I've got a scene kind of like this in one of the manuscripts I'm working on... I don't quite buy the apology. Some people claim that it doesn't matter because it happened way back when... The way someone treats others as a kid often continues into adulthood. The people who bullied me as a kid have barely changed. =| Stuff like that really messes people up. If he was like that as a kid, it doesn't surprise me he's so discriminating and hateful as an adult.
 

Zoombie

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Bullies are bullies. It say something depressing when one of the most likely candidates to run the free world, the most electable and votable member of a major political party...is a hateful bully.

Something about us? I don't think so. I think it says something about the system we use to pick leaders.
 

Fins Left

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Someone should grab those magic undies and give Romeny a very big, very public wedgie.

I hope all parents read this and think that Romney would screw their kid just as quickly as he pulled that 'prank' on the poor boy.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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It's not the incident itself which was bad enough. In high school many people act like horrible jerks, regret it later and try to make up for it. It's in the latter area that Romney is falling down on the job.

This is from the TPM story:
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/mitt-romney-apologizes-for-high-school-bullying.php

“Back in high school I did some dumb things and if anybody was hurt by that or offended by that I apologize,” Romney told FOX radio host Brian Kilmeade Thursday. “If I did stupid things, I’m afraid I’ve got to say sorry for it.”

Romney, 65, noted he graduated from high school nearly five decades ago, and said, “I’m quite a different guy now.” He admitted “I participated in a lot of hijinks and pranks in high school and some of them might have gone too far, and I apologize.”

and

“I certainly don’t believe that I thought the fellow was homosexual,” Romney told Kilmeade. “That was the furthest thing from our minds back in the 1960s.”

The description of this as hijinks and pranks is, how to put it, disingenuous at best.
 

Mara

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This stuff is just another reason why Obama is guaranteed my vote. He's not perfect, but good God, at least he's not this bullying, animal abusing, job destroying, unreliable, disingenuous, out-of-touch jerk.
 

Shadow_Ferret

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I'm offended by the use of the word weasel in the title.

I don't know what to think about this. On the one hand, it was high school. When I was in high school swirlies and wedgies were the norm. There were real bullies and then there were mob bullies -- kids who are normally nice but when in a group give in to peer pressure and do stupid things.

But most of us have grown up since then. Are we really going to hold someone accountable for misbehaving at 15 or whatever age he was? I used to shoplift at that age. And do drugs. And got into fights. 40 years later do I need to answer for those sins?

Granted forcibly cutting someone's hair is above and beyond a wedgie.
 

Opty

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I'll try to find a link but I'm watching a story on it right now. The other five guys who participated were all tracked down and interviewed. Two are still good friends of Romney's. The guy who held the kid down while Romney cut his hair said that the incident still haunts him to this day.

Every single one of them remembers....except Romney.

As to his claims that he didn't think the kid was gay...rrriiiiiiggghhhttt. He apparently used to yell "atta girl!" to another suspected gay student whenever the kid would speak up in class.

Romney's new campaign tactic seems to be to put his wife in the forefront, likely so he can dodge questions and redirect criticism to a target he thinks people won't attack.

This case is no different as his response is that he did some dumb stuff in high school but he changed his ways and became a changed person when he met his wife.

Unfortunately for that excuse, he's said several times that he met his wife in elementary school...years before he bullied this poor kid.

My main problem with this isn't the fact that it happened (although it was horrible)...because it was nearly half a century ago and I believe people can change.

What bothers me most is his response. Not only is he apparently the only one who can't remember the incident, his apology was some weak ass bullshit, expressing zero empathy or remorse.

Regardless of what the incident says about who he was back then, his response speaks volumes about who he is now.
 
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Mharvey

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I gotta call bullshit on this one.

There's no way you "don't remember" pinning down some kid and cutting his hair. I've bullied and I've been bullied. I remember the biggies I gave and took.

There's only two answers to something like that. You remember it and you're very sorry about it. Or: "That never happened. Because, if it had, I would remember... it's a slander attempt, clear as day."

"Yeah, I pulled a lot of pranks in school. I don't remember that particular one." ... bullshit. Total. Bullshit. All he's doing is insulting people's intelligence. It tells me not only does he remember this one, clear as day, but he's not sorry about it. And he thinks I'm an idiot who will believe anything.

If it never happened, you say it never happened. Then, no one knows whether or not its a conspiracy to defraud him or not.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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So Romney was at Cranbrook, hm? Not a surprise that the governor's son went to a super-prestigious prep school. It's a shame that he was a bully.

It is odd that the "famously strict" school never disciplined him for bullying, since any properly run school would take a youth's criminal behavior very seriously, no matter his connections. And yes, assault with a group of four other youths and cutting off someone's hair is criminal. Odd that Cranbrook expelled his victim too, poor kid. Wonder what the Cranbrook administration would have to say about it.

I note that in his apology Romney tried to brush the incident aside as "a long time ago." He said he was sorry, but he kept giggling. He may have become "a very different person than I was," but he never apologized until now, when the incident was publicized, and he never tried to make things right with the other man, who is now dead.

Many people did mean, bullying things in high school. The ones with real character do not laugh when asked about them.
 

Monkey

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It was high school back before there was such a strong campaign against bullying, when high school administrators would sometimes laugh at this sort of thing.

But.

For a man who is Romney's age, and who is running for president, to not be able to summon even a semblance of remorse over that sort of behavior really is pretty disgusting. Come on, man, none of this IF you were offended, THEN I apologize, crap. You have a national platform and are under intense scrutiny--two very good reasons to do this right. Hell, if you turned it into an anti-bullying screed, you'd win points. But this response...geesh. "Inadequate" doesn't go nearly far enough.
 

Zoombie

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Maybe this is just me, but...I never bullied. None of my friends bullied. None of their friends bully. It's remarkably easy to get through school without bullying people: You just don't do things.

You DON'T call people names.

You DON'T assault people.

You DON'T hold people down and cut their hair off because you are a power-hungry, privileged asshole.
 

Jcomp

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I'm offended by the use of the word weasel in the title.

I don't know what to think about this. On the one hand, it was high school. When I was in high school swirlies and wedgies were the norm. There were real bullies and then there were mob bullies -- kids who are normally nice but when in a group give in to peer pressure and do stupid things.

But most of us have grown up since then. Are we really going to hold someone accountable for misbehaving at 15 or whatever age he was? I used to shoplift at that age. And do drugs. And got into fights. 40 years later do I need to answer for those sins?

Granted forcibly cutting someone's hair is above and beyond a wedgie.

It's not the incident itself which was bad enough. In high school many people act like horrible jerks, regret it later and try to make up for it. It's in the latter area that Romney is falling down on the job.
...
The description of this as hijinks and pranks is, how to put it, disingenuous at best.

I agree with these. The bullying thing sucks, and I say this as someone who is quite familiar with being on the bad end of bullying (and can't claim to be wholly innocent on the other end of it either), but if I ran into one of the guys who used to sucker punch me and make me hate school when I was younger, both of us as adults, I doubt I'd even bring it up, unless the person just showed zero evidence that they had changed. And then I'd just think he was a grown asshole. The man is 65-years-old now. Who he was when he was in high school doesn't matter to me much in terms of choosing him as a president, unless he did something felonious.

That said, the shitty apology does bug me. Shitty apologies, particularly in these situations, are inexcusable. This isn't even something recent. There's no real political benefit to giving a quarter-assed apology here. "I did some stupid, awful things in high school. That was years ago, but I still wish I could go back and smack myself for some of the horrible things I did, and I'm sincerely sorry to everyone I hurt. I've obviously grown up considerably since then and changed in a number of ways, but I can't excuse those past actions and, again, I sincerely apologize for those inexcusable, cowardly actions."

Boom. Done. No more story, nothing to write about. I cooked that up in like seven seconds. It's so easy. Now, I'm realistic. I understand that sometimes the "non-pology" is the more prudent career choice, even if it reflects poorly on you as a person. But this is just a silly, unnecessary, dumb decision. This should have been the easiest apology in the world. This apology should have a Chris Paul alley-oop delivered perfectly at the rim with no defenders in site for an easy dunk, and he tried to turn it into a fadeaway jumpshot. Why?
 

raburrell

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If I were feeling cynical, I'd say it's because a significant portion of his base believes this is still the right way to treat people one suspects of having teh gay.

I agree, it's the laughing 'yeah, I don't remember' and the quarter-assed apology that make this relevant. He hasn't changed.

eta: I also think it says something that Romney's target was expelled for a cigarette, while the five perpetrators got away with a physical assault.
 

rugcat

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It was high school back before there was such a strong campaign against bullying, when high school administrators would sometimes laugh at this sort of thing.
I was thinking about this the other day in a different context. I was lucky enough to go to an exclusive prep school as a teen. (I'm from Romney's generation.) I got a superb education, one that gave me a leg up in life and in many ways made my subsequent station in life possible.

There was no real bullying in my school. There were cliques -- the cool kids, the jocks, the science nerds, etc, and definitely a pecking order. There was snubbing, and it was not all roses for some students.

But actual bullying would never have been tolerated. Holding down a kid and cutting his hair would have resulted in suspensions at the very least, and probably expulsions. This was a top down policy -- not even an official policy, really. It was just understood by all that such acts were outside the pale,and just not done, and that was all there was to that.

People can change, but by the time you graduate high school your basic personality is often formed. Bullies may stop bullying, but that mindset continues on -- they sometimes become the bosses from hell, for example.
 

Mharvey

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That said, the shitty apology does bug me. Shitty apologies, particularly in these situations, are inexcusable. This isn't even something recent. There's no real political benefit to giving a quarter-assed apology here. "I did some stupid, awful things in high school. That was years ago, but I still wish I could go back and smack myself for some of the horrible things I did, and I'm sincerely sorry to everyone I hurt. I've obviously grown up considerably since then and changed in a number of ways, but I can't excuse those past actions and, again, I sincerely apologize for those inexcusable, cowardly actions."

Boom. Done. No more story, nothing to write about. I cooked that up in like seven seconds. It's so easy.

I couldn't agree more.

I couldn't care less about the bullying thing, TBH. It happens. It sucks, but it happens. Romney was probably a tyrant in that school. He was also a kid. There's a reason kids usually aren't accountable for their actions until 18. Kids do stupid shit, end of story.

What pisses me off is that he thinks I'm an idiot. You don't REMEMBER rallying a lynch mob to go hunt down a potentially gay kid with long hair, have your cronies hold him down while you cut his hair and a gaggle of people cheered/laughed?

Well, gee... if that's true, your memory must really SUCK. If we put you in power, you'd probably forget which building is yours and try to find the Oval Office in the Washington Memorial. Or declare war on Israel because you mixed it up with Iran.

"Which is the one with the Jews in it? I forget..."

To think I was defending this guy last week. lol
 

Zoombie

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I'm willing to bet he does remember. I bet he just thought it was a jolly good time on a fag who deserved it.

Bastard.
 

Don

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Didn't some recent posts in another thread talk about bullies and what they grow up to be? :rolleyes:

ETA: Ah, yeah, here we go...
Maybe.

When I was in school, most bullies were from poorer families because--as is usually the case--there were more poor families than wealthy families.

But one thing I noticed is that a number of the kids who were big bullies in school went on to careers in law enforcement, while a number of others went on to careers in crime.

Take it away, Don...

I guess the wealthier bullies go into politics?

:nothing
 

Mclesh

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I think this goes to show his character -- not a good one. He was a senior in high school, so maybe 17 years old by then. He didn't know it was wrong to have his minions forcibly pin someone down and then cut the poor guy's hair? Most high school seniors don't engage in such behavior. The fact that he doesn't even remember the incident (or so he says) makes me wonder: did he bully so many other students that it was a commonplace thing for him? Or does he have a really crappy memory? If he's prone to memory lapses, does he really have the mental acuity to be POTUS?

I bet Mr. Lauber remembers it all too well. And it sounds like he's never had an apology from Romney.

What a narcissistic POS.
 

Williebee

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The description of this as hijinks and pranks is, how to put it, disingenuous at best.
I'm not sure about this. It may just be another indication of the class division, and how difficult it is for him to communicate with those outside his social strata.

As for not remembering it? If it's true, that may actually be sadder. The idea that this kind of action - an emotional and shared event wasn't important enough to him to hold on to the memory of.

Still, it was high school. Digging up the actions of a minor in order to find some dirt to throw is some weak shit.
 

Mharvey

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I think this goes to show his character -- not a good one. He was a senior in high school, so maybe 17 years old by then. He didn't know it was wrong to have his minions forcibly pin someone down and then cut the poor guy's hair? Most high school seniors don't engage in such behavior. The fact that he doesn't even remember the incident (or so he says) makes me wonder: did he bully so many other students that it was a commonplace thing for him? Or does he have a really crappy memory? If he's prone to memory lapses, does he really have the mental acuity to be POTUS?

I bet Mr. Lauber remembers it all too well. And it sounds like he's never had an apology from Romney.

What a narcissistic POS.

Eh, I mean, yeah sure... he knew it was wrong. Then again, at 17, I would go into a supermarkets and see how much I could steal and not get caught. I did it 80% to try and impress my friends, 20% for the thrill. I never stole anything unless I was in a group and I made sure they all knew i was doing it. Otherwise, what's the point?

Bottom line, kids do stupid things. Usually because they want others to think they're cool and daring.

Is it a reflection of who I am now? No. Is it nessecarily a reflection of who Mittens is now? No.

What is a reflection of who he is now is trying to say: "I don't remember." That's just total bullshit and I'm offended he thinks I'm stupid enough to believe him. If he just owned it, I wouldn't even care.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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I'm offended by the use of the word weasel in the title.

I don't know what to think about this. On the one hand, it was high school. When I was in high school swirlies and wedgies were the norm. There were real bullies and then there were mob bullies -- kids who are normally nice but when in a group give in to peer pressure and do stupid things.

But most of us have grown up since then. Are we really going to hold someone accountable for misbehaving at 15 or whatever age he was? I used to shoplift at that age. And do drugs. And got into fights. 40 years later do I need to answer for those sins?

Granted forcibly cutting someone's hair is above and beyond a wedgie.

I'm not sure about this. It may just be another indication of the class division, and how difficult it is for him to communicate with those outside his social strata.

As for not remembering it? If it's true, that may actually be sadder. The idea that this kind of action - an emotional and shared event wasn't important enough to him to hold on to the memory of.

Still, it was high school. Digging up the actions of a minor in order to find some dirt to throw is some weak shit.

It's not what he did then, it's how he's reacting now. High school bullying is forgivable. Someone laughing it off and not showing the slightest bit of concern or remorse for it suggests a chillingly self-satisfied character.

Maybe this is just me, but...I never bullied. None of my friends bullied. None of their friends bully. It's remarkably easy to get through school without bullying people: You just don't do things.

You DON'T call people names.

You DON'T assault people.

You DON'T hold people down and cut their hair off because you are a power-hungry, privileged asshole.

Of course not. And I wasn't a high school bully either, although I was often bullied. I am, however, willing to live and let live when people become aware of the wrongness of what they have done and try to do better. Someone may have been a jerk twenty years ago, but I have enough faith in humanity to let things go if they try to do better.

But not if they try to make excuses, or giggle it away, or say it was just youthful highjinks. If they treat their past cruelty less seriously and more lightly than others do, they won't be forgiven.
 

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I'm with Willibee here. If this is the worst thing they've got on Romney, they may as well give up on the witchhunt.