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  1. #1
    Cat hair collector PVish's Avatar
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    [Display site] Pitch Your Work

    I assume this is another YADS site. From their home page:
    Our mission is twofold.

    To offer a central location for authors and screenwriters to Pitch Your Work via the Internet to agents, producers, editors and other industry executives to whom you might otherwise not have access.

    To offer a central location for agents, producers, editors and other industry executives to quickly review the works of new aspiring authors and screenwriters--whose work is as yet unknown--or that of seasoned authors and screenwriters who are seeking to make a change.
    I'd like some concise info about why this is a bad idea to relay back to the Facebook friend who posted a link to the site.

  2. #2
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Because, despite twenty years of various folks trying, that trick has yet to work.

    Why publishers can't buy works from a display site: The works haven't been submitted to them.

    Why agents aren't going to go to a display site: Their desks are already stacked feet-deep in manuscripts that were sent to them by name. They don't need to trawl the Internet for more slush.

    The only possible advantage to authors in display sites is this: They will never get a rejection letter. If that's their goal, the only better method is leaving the manuscript in their desk drawer.

    These bozos recommend that authors who use their service copyright their works with the LOC.

    Don't do that. Just don't. It's totally unprofessional.

    And -- they charge $60 and up. In the great gray area between Very Bad Idea and Outright Scam, that moves the needle a little farther to the left.
    __________________

  3. #3
    practical experience, FTW areteus's Avatar
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    It's a model I have seen used in employment - many job sites offer this very service (where your cv is made available to employers to view and potentially call you up to offer a job). It doesn't there either. I have never had a call from a bonafide employer from one of those sites. Lots of calls from agencies looking to boost their intake of new clients but none from actual employers who want to give me money to work for them.

    As James says above, publishers and agents (like employers) are in a position of power. You have to go to them, they are not going to bother coming to look for you. You are better off doing some internet research, finding appropriate agents and publishers and sending them all an e-mail with your pitch in it or manuscript or whatever. It may take them a while to get to it but they will eventually get to it and they will get to it long before they ever consider actively trawling websites (or self published novels or blogs or anywhere) for 'new talent'.

  4. #4
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    PitchYourWork website

    PVish - Unfortunately you have been grossly misinformed by JD McDonald and areteus. Their advice is old school, irrelevant, and your work(s) should definitely be copyrighted. This is the digital age, get with it!

    I happen to know for a fact that film industry heads have visited and have promoted the www.pitchyourwork.com website; AND, one in particular, has listened to EVERY Audio "Pitch" and watched EVERY “Movie Trailer” that is currently on the www.pitchyourwork.com website.


    Gads, what is a “YADS”?

  5. #5
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    YADS = Yet Another Display Site.

    Hello, PYWork. When do you plan to go out of business? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

  6. #6
    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    PYWork:
    Their advice is old school, irrelevant, and your work(s) should definitely be copyrighted.
    Really? How does the advice of a UK qualified lawyer grab you? You don't need to copyright your work. Registration is only effective for the purposes of evidencing ownership of a published work. You can equally evidence ownership through keeping records of your drafts.

    PYWork:
    This is the digital age, get with it!
    Some of us like writing in cuniform on clay tablets ...

    PYWork:
    I happen to know for a fact that film industry heads have visited and have promoted the www.pitchyourwork.com website
    Cool. Who? Where? When?

    PYWork:
    AND, one in particular, has listened to EVERY Audio "Pitch" and watched EVERY “Movie Trailer” that is currently on the www.pitchyourwork.com website.
    I'm like that with LOLcat pictures.

    Did this film industry head end up acquiring anything as a result of their electronic sojourn on your site?

    PYWork:
    Gads, what is a “YADS”?
    Yet Another Display Site. But surely you know that, given that you're all about the digital age and all ...

    MM

  7. #7
    Cultus Gopherus MacAllister Medievalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYWork View Post
    [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]PVish - Unfortunately you have been grossly misinformed by JD McDonald and areteus. Their advice is old school, irrelevant, and your work(s) should definitely be copyrighted.
    Really.

    What do you know about it? Are you an attorney? Because your language suggests you don't know what you're talking about.

    All works have copyright ab initio.

    Do you have any professional experience in publishing?

    What specific expertise do you have?

    Are you here for any other reason than to pimp your display site?

    Because that's not gonna fly. We're not a free ad agency.

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  8. #8
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Seriously, PYWork, what's your name? What's your background in publishing? What are you doing to keep your business from turning into an outright scam?

  9. #9
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    PYW Multiple Answers

    When do you plan to go out of business? I Don’t.

    How does the advice of a UK qualified lawyer grab you? Does’nt grab me at all. You don't need to copyright your work. Registration is only effective for the purposes of evidencing ownership of a published work. You can equally evidence ownership through keeping records of your drafts. DUH, I think about everyone knows that. But, unfortunately there are people out there who are paranoid and feel safer with their works(s) being formerly copyrighted.

    Some of us like writing in cuniform on clay tablets ... Apparently!

    Did this film industry head end up acquiring anything as a result of their electronic sojourn on your site? Yes, Talks are in the works. BUT, that is between those two parties and NOT the PYW. PYW does not get involved nor get paid anything for what goes on between the two parties. PYW main purpose is to make the Connections for Authors, Screenwriters, and the Film Industry via the PYW website. PYW only knows of such talks IF any of the parties care to share their feedback from having their work(s) displayed on the PYW website.

    Are you here for any other reason than to pimp your display site? I am not “pimping” the PYW website here, apparently you all are! I am simply setting the misinformation that you all are talking about straight. IF you don’t like the PYW website, fine, don’t participate, that is your choice… nobody is forcing you to.


  10. #10
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Listen up, PYWork:

    The path you're on has two branches. I don't know...yet... which one you're going to walk down, but I do know that you'll walk down one of them.

    Either PitchYourWork will turn into an out-and-out scam, or it will go out of business entirely. The fact that you're charging money right out of the gate means that you're more likely to take the left-hand path.

    So someone sleeps better at night knowing that their work has been copyrighted? It's up to you to explain to them that they shouldn't. If you don't know why that is you have no business hanging out your shingle. You certainly shouldn't be advising folks to copyright their works right on your webpage. You might as well hang up a scarlet banner with the words "I'm Incompetent" embroidered on it in gold thread.

    Okay, the dead pool is now open. I'm putting down my marker for August, 2013.

  11. #11
    First lily of summer AW Moderator Calla Lily's Avatar
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    One calendar year from now: May 15, 2013.

    Based partially on posts here and partially on the grammatical errors on their home page. A YADS owner's posts here, and their site wishing to lure writers, should be professional and error-free. Those are the pebbles in the shoe.

  12. #12
    Seen 'em come, seen 'em go Gravity's Avatar
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    I'm happy to share, but don't bogart the butter.
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  13. #13
    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    PYWork:
    Does’nt grab me at all.
    Shocker. You and appropriately qualified legal advice do seem to be complete strangers.

    PYWork:
    DUH, I think about everyone knows that. But, unfortunately there are people out there who are paranoid and feel safer with their works(s) being formerly copyrighted.
    Well if you knew that why did you say earlier that "your work(s) should definitely be copyrighted"? The fact that your work is automatically subject to copyright at the point of creation suggests that, duh, you didn't actually know that. But now you do. So that's okay.

    PYWork:
    Apparently!
    Ah, I see. You're a stranger to irony as well. Quelle surprise.

    PYWork:
    Yes, Talks are in the works. BUT, that is between those two parties and NOT the PYW. PYW does not get involved nor get paid anything for what goes on between the two parties. PYW main purpose is to make the Connections for Authors, Screenwriters, and the Film Industry via the PYW website. PYW only knows of such talks IF any of the parties care to share their feedback from having their work(s) displayed on the PYW website.
    If that's between the two parties, then why are you talking about talks on a website before they have concluded? Have you been specifically authorised to discuss details - even on a no names basis?

    Also, I asked you which studio heads have visited and promoted your website? This can't be confidential information because if they're promoting your website then the information is in the public domain.

    PYWork:
    I am simply setting the misinformation that you all are talking about straight.
    Oh and you are doing a spectacular job of that. Seriously, I know that my opinion has completely changed as a result of your oh-so-professional communication skills and legal comprehension.

    MM

  14. #14
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYWork View Post
    But, unfortunately there are people out there who are paranoid and feel safer with their works(s) being formerly copyrighted.
    Formerly or formally? The latter would make more sense, although still be technically incorrect.
    Emily Veinglory

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
    You might as well hang up a scarlet banner with the words "I'm Incompetent" embroidered on it in gold thread.
    And here I thought starting a display site implied that banner already.

  16. #16
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    PYW does NOT give “Legal Advice”. If you had read the “Note to Visitors”, and/or the “Submission Requirements”, you would have known that. You obviously do not have much experience with screen writers; otherwise you would understand the paranoia I speak of. Additionally, PYW is NOT about “Publishing”, it is about “Marketing”.

    As for charging a fee to have a Work Product displayed, yes it is $60 for 6 months – or - $85 for 6 months, IF PYW has to do the MP3 Audio recording. I have been told that is TOO cheap, but have decided not to increase it at this time. I have also been told to sell Sponsor Advertising, but I do NOT want to do that at this time either.

    And, as I have stated before, IF you don’t like the PYW website, fine, don’t participate, that is your choice… nobody is forcing you…

    IF you have some constructive criticism that will increase the PYW goal of connecting authors, screenwriters, and the film industry, then I would be glad to hear about it, otherwise, it is a moot point in discussing anything further.

  17. #17
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    I'm guessing -- just guessing now, based on seeing entirely too many display sites crop up over the past couple of decades -- that what we have here is a programmer somewhere who doesn't know the first thing about writing or publishing looking at publishing from the outside and saying, "Oh, it's all so inefficient! I could write a database that'll fix the entire system!"

    That's what happens when you have someone who doesn't know what the system even is trying to "fix" it.

    This one will go the same way as all the others.

  18. #18
    Know what you write...
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    Yes, you could try to register copyright to your work, but why bother when a publisher will do it for you when you sell them the manuscript?

    By the way, a manuscript display site has another disadvantage. Once you post your work, it's there for everyone to see. Bye bye first rights -- the rights a publisher wants to have.

  19. #19
    volitare nequeo AW Moderator veinglory's Avatar
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    I think 'statistically speaking this endeavor is almost certain to fail' is much more constructive than saying nothing. Especially for novice authors who might otherwise invest in an essentially worthless service.
    Emily Veinglory

  20. #20
    phoenix blazing Parametric's Avatar
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    I hate "scare" "quotes". With a "passion".

  21. #21
    Seen 'em come, seen 'em go Gravity's Avatar
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    And so another hapless YADS, wings riddled with shrapnel and engine flaming, its twisted fuselage trailing black, oily smoke, augers its way from on high into a cold and uncaring sea ...
    Cameron Bane

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  22. #22
    The King and Queen of Cheese BenPanced's Avatar
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    Coming soon: yor awl jelose loosers.
    I still poop rainbows.

    I won't steal any of your ideas. I have enough of my own I'm not using.


  23. #23
    9 of 10 Overlords prefer Evil Pie! K_Woods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravity View Post
    And so another hapless YADS, wings riddled with shrapnel and engine flaming, its twisted fuselage trailing black, oily smoke, augers its way from on high into a cold and uncaring sea ...
    And the only thing missing is a Wilhelm scream.
    Nothing to see here...no, really. Not even in almost-invisible white text.

  24. #24
    Hagiographically Advantaged AW Moderator HapiSofi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYWork View Post
    PVish - Unfortunately you have been grossly misinformed by JD McDonald and areteus.
    I don't know all that much about Areteus, but Jim Macdonald (the guy "Yog's Law" is named for) definitely knows what he's talking about. So does the rest of the thread. Display sites are the bad idea that people inexplicably keep having. YADS have been reliable failures for many years now. Absolute Write has been one of the sites that's tracked them.
    Their advice is old school, irrelevant, and your work(s) should definitely be copyrighted.
    If, as you later explained, you actually meant "Your works should be copyrighted because it'll make you feel ever so much more warm and fuzzy and secure," you should have said so the first time around.
    This is the digital age, get with it!
    Are you kidding? The digital age arrived when your mother was still in school.
    I happen to know for a fact that film industry heads have visited and have promoted the www.pitchyourwork.com website;
    I happen to know that they haven't. They're very busy people, and they're already comprehensively ignoring dozens of better-designed and longer-established YADS. The only thing that could get them to visit PYW would be credible evidence that PYW has kidnapped their dependents and is holding them hostage.
    AND, one in particular, has listened to EVERY Audio "Pitch" and watched EVERY “Movie Trailer” that is currently on the website.
    That would require credible evidence of kidnapping, plus major, major drugs -- or pathological grandiosity on the part of the person reporting it.

    Frankly, I think you're mentally unbalanced, and I doubt I'm the first to tell you so.
    Last edited by HapiSofi; 05-16-2012 at 07:09 AM.
    Winner of the Best Drycleaner on the Block Award.

  25. #25
    Hagiographically Advantaged AW Moderator HapiSofi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYWork View Post
    [FONT=Times New Roman]PYW does NOT give “Legal Advice”. If you had read the “Note to Visitors”, and/or the “Submission Requirements”, you would have known that. You obviously do not have much experience with screen writers;
    I have more experience with them than you do.
    otherwise you would understand the paranoia I speak of.
    The change in international copyright law that automatically gives creators their copyrights from day one has been in place for some years now. Unless you're using old examples, the horror stories you've heard about Hollywood will have happened to writers who already held copyright on their works.
    Additionally, PYW is NOT about “Publishing”, it is about “Marketing”.
    Thank you for so thoroughly and succinctly demonstrating that you know nothing about publishing, and should not be starting a business that solicits the use of other people's work.
    As for charging a fee to have a Work Product displayed, yes it is $60 for 6 months – or -- $85 for 6 months, IF PYW has to do the MP3 Audio recording. I have been told that is TOO cheap, but have decided not to increase it at this time. I have also been told to sell Sponsor Advertising, but I do NOT want to do that at this time either.
    I don't care how much you're charging. You still have no experience and not idea what you're doing. It is completely inappropriate for other writers to entrust their work and their hopes to you.
    And, as I have stated before, IF you don’t like the PYW website, fine, don’t participate, that is your choice… nobody is forcing you…
    Discussing publishing-related websites is one of the things this forum is about. We think poorly of yours. Deal with it.
    IF you have some constructive criticism that will increase the PYW goal of connecting authors, screenwriters, and the film industry, then I would be glad to hear about it, otherwise, it is a moot point in discussing anything further.
    This is constructive criticism. Your basic idea is unworkable. There's no advice on earth or in heaven that can make it viable. You can believe us or not, but if you keep pursuing this business plan, you will fail, and that's all there is to it.
    Winner of the Best Drycleaner on the Block Award.

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