Motive

Not being a singular reader of MTS, I remember hearing in one of my podcasts that just being "crazy" is no longer fashionable as a motive, except in the comic book genre where it has always had villains in it "just for the chaos".

I don't remember which podcast that was, maybe Writing Excuses.

I think their main point was that "real" people are too sophisticated to realistically settle for such a motive without there being a reason and since audiences are getting more sophisticated they expect to learn of that reason.

Here's what i took from that conversation: I guess I would ask, "What is the crazy person's logic for doing what they're doing?"

After all, we're all a little crazy.

I forget who I'm quoting here, but "humans aren't rational beings, they are rationalizing beings".

How does your crazy dude/dudette rationalize their behavior?

Hope that helps.

> My guy's neuroses weren't clear enough, I guess.

More like, as Doc wrote, they don't explain his actions.


> What is the crazy any person's logic for doing what they're doing?

That's the definition of motive, no?


My point is that all the way through the story, there has to be some ultimate goal for which the price of suffering to reach it is minimal in comparison to its reward. And that goal can change along the way. If at any point in the story your MC is able to say "Christ, I'm tired of this shit." and goes home, it's game over.


The question becomes: what's your MC's goal when the inciting event occurs, and how does that goal evolves as the MC experiences the story?


-cb

Jung said that everyone worked from logic, including psychotics. It is up to the psychiatrist to figure out what the logic/pattern is.

When I read the first post, it smote me that all ALL my characters are motivated by love. Some of that love went rather terribly wrong, but there you are.

It was a good thing I was sitting down.

My main character's motive is to save the soul of her sister and brother that had died, thus unleashing gods upon the mortal realm to wreak havoc.

Good guys or bad?

New book here, but the MC's motive is because he's bored. Well, more specifically he's a bored risk taker with way too much money on his hands and it's more fun than rock climbing.

heyjude said:

What's your character's motive for what s/he does?

Click to expand...

To me, motive is one powerful vehicle for conveying the theme of your book. In my first book, the theme is the protagonist discovering that she truly IS her reflection on the people around her--the way she treats the people she loves. So her motive had to first convey the strength of those friendships--to protect her friends, she'll face danger. Then she had to betray her friends in order to protect them, creating an internal crisis I could use to push her to the edge. And finally, when the killer murders a close friend, she's motivated by revenge, but uses the strength of her friendships to solve the case.

Does that make any sense?

> the MC's motive is because he's bored. Well, more
> specifically he's a bored risk taker with way too much
> money on his hands and it's more fun than rock climbing.

Same comment as for Heyjude's WIP: That will get him past the inciting event. So what carries him forward after that?

Examples:

The Thomas Crowne Affair. The guy's bored also, but that's his painting in the museum and for the first time, there is a lady who has the smarts to challenge him and that turns him on. It's not a heist (goal), it's courting (motive or inner drive).

Ian Rankin's Door Opened. The guy is bored and rich too, but stealing paintings is a way to save them from gathering dust in a warehouse, their beauty hidden away from the public forever. At least, he and his art loving buddies can spend the remaining of their lives admiring them. It's not a heist (goal), it's a salvage operation (real motive / inner drive).

Hope this is clearer.

-cb

MY MCs motive is simple - she wants to own the house she was born in. To be able to do this she has to kill everyone who stands in her way - parents and siblings. She never tried to rationalise or justify what she is doing, she just gets on with it. Given the period I have set the story in, and some of the methods she uses to kill her family off she gets way with all her murders. Not going to tell you if she gets the house though.

In the book I have on submission, my MC's motivation is partly motivated by the dilemma the book his hinged on [loyalty to Rome vs love for his wife] and partly because he and his family has been threatened with dishonour.

In the current WIP, the MC's motivation changes. To begin with, he is desperate to gain a promotion, by half way through the book, his motivation alters to revenge when he loses to a love rival [plot linked to the promotion.]

heyjude said:

Shakes! Didn't know you had it in you. That's awesome!

Click to expand...

Why thank you!

When the closest thing he has to a friend is killed, my MC convinces himself the only way to end his existential mid-life crisis is by finding the killer. Under the surface, however, he's really only investigating the murder as an excuse to stay in town and continue two romantic relationships he has developed--he just doesn't want to admit that to himself.

Logan, I like your MC. He sounds a lot like my husband: not ever admitting things to himself that he doesn't want to admit.

And "existential mid-life crisis"? Well...

My MC's motive is to stay alive in a hostile organization. That's the major, compelling motive. Layered underneath that, she clings to those moments when what she does actually makes a positive difference and to the dwindling hope of escape.

Not that long ago, I gleaned a little list of motives from--of all things--a little Christian self-help book designed to help people figure out why they do the things they do. I copied the list down and keep it above my desk and use it for brainstorming.

The are: Pleasure, Meaning, Comfort, Success, Freedom, Respect, Happiness, Power, Control, Peace, Reputation, Love/Intimacy.

They are very general, but I've discovered that most of the motives I see in books fall into one of these categories, more often than not. Sometimes it's the negative. For example, a politician killing a witness to his indiscretion would have a motive of respect, since he is committing a crime to retain it.

My main character's psyche has been so rocked in the last few years before my story begins that he is just simply looking for something - anything - to believe in. It puts him in a vulnerable state where when the catalyst of the story, the girl, enters his world, he can't help but fall for her. And once she's taken away by the antagonist, well, what else can he do but go after them. In a way, it's an indirect way of having love be my protag's main motivation. The bomb threat of the story is actually just a secondary motivator. My antag's motive is straight-out simpler to understand: Money. That and he also has a massive superiority complex.

My MC's motive is pure curiosity at the start - he does what he does simply to find out what it's like. And he likes it.

Over the course of the story that motive changes into the desire to protect that curiosity. He wants to be free to live as he has been doing - even though it's resulted in both a private security company and the police chasing him down. And he resolves that the only way to do that is to disappear completely, so no-one knows where he came from or what he truly is.

The last bit is his excuse for going on a rampage of mass murder and destruction, eliminating everyone in his past...

I'm sure your motive is more than "crazy", hj! I mean, what type of crazy? How did the MC get that way? Why is the MC not getting help for the crazy (if it's the help-able sort)? Does he like the crazy or does he not even know it's there?

this is a subject that annoys me

It does seem to me that 90% of the published thrillers let motivation slide. And that's OK to me, because motivation is highly overrated.

Special Agent Pendergrast just jumps in and starts solving things (why? Because his family is crazy!) Jack Reacher? We know he doesn't like bullies, bureaucracy and BS, but why? Is there any motivation in a Vince Flynn novel? Nope, Mitch Rapp is just a Dudley DoRight who's out to preserve the American way. End of story. Lucas Davenport is a police officer. He solves crimes, because that's what he does. Harry Bosch is one of the world's greatest characters, but why is he such a tough, never give up bad ass? Sure, after innumerable novels we get some motivation lightly sprinkled over the top, but the stories wouldn't be any worse if this wasn't included. Its just some physiological eye candy, like the occasional sex scene, perhaps interesting but not essential to the core of the novel. Bosch was probably born tough.

To me, motivation is a strange thing. Why does someone decide to pack it up and move to Asia? Or go back to school? Does a deep rooted childhood problem create all bullies? Or are they just born a-holes?

Sometimes it's just not easily explainable. I can't tell you why I like to run, or take photos, or travel, and I know myself pretty well. You can waste a lot of story time trying to explain, or just write a good story.


My opinion may be in the minority. Sure, you've got to make sense. Actions must follow facts. The story must flow. You can't have random coincidences creating plot. Perhaps that's what your critic meant.

But do you really need true, deep psychological motivation in a thriller? Nah. Cops and detectives solve crimes because that's what they do. Spies find secrets because that's what they do. Heroes become heroes because they are made out of hero material.

So, my conclusions are that you need consistency. Don't make your guy are hero in one part and a coward in another (unless that's what you planned on doing.) You need a logical, step by step flow. One thing leads to another. You can't use coincidence and inconsistent behavior to drive a plot. You need some logical explanation at a high level (accused of crime, he tries to clear his name. U.S. is attacked by terrorists, he defends us. A crime is committed in his city, he solves it.)

But deep rooted motive? Forget it. Sometimes it's just the way it is.

End of rant.