Help George Zimmerman. Send Money!

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
11,629
Reaction score
4,103
Location
CBUS
Well, if you haven't somebody sure has:
(AP) ORLANDO, Fla. - George Zimmerman's attorney says a website created to raise money for his legal defense has raised more than $200,000.


Mark O'Mara said on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 Thursday night that he learned about the money on Wednesday and will inform a judge at a Friday hearing.


Zimmerman, who has been charged with second-degree murder in the Feb. 26 shooting of Trayvon Martin, was released from jail this week after paying 10 percent of $150,000 bail.


O'Mara says the bail amount may have been higher if the judge knew Zimmerman had raised $200,000.


The website used to raise the money has since been shut down, but O'Mara said he'll likely start a new defense fund for Zimmerman.
Welcome to post-racial America. Where you can kill an unarmed Black kid and fools will send you nearly a quarter of a million dollars so you can beat the rap.

In another "better late than never" revelation, O'Mara now concedes his client's "apology" might not have been the best move.

At least now after the fact that it worked.

(CBS News) The attorney for George Zimmerman apologized for the apology his client offered to the parents of Trayvon Martin during his bond hearing last Friday, saying he did not understand the victim's family would find the timing of his remarks inappropriate.


"We had reached out to see if we could do it privately," attorney Mark O'Mara said on "CBS This Morning."


Mark Strassmann reported that Zimmerman had asked for a private meeting with Martin's parents before Friday's hearing, which was rejected. Their lawyer, Benjamin Crump, said Thursday that requesting a meeting a day before the bond hearing was "self-serving."

At the hearing Friday Zimmerman took the stand and, speaking to Martin's parents, said, "I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit younger than I am, and I did not know if he was armed or not."

Crump told the press following the hearing that Zimmerman's apology was poorly timed and insincere. "The apology was somewhat of a surprise because we had told them this was not the appropriate time, but they just disregarded that, and he went and pandered to the court and the media and gave a very insincere apology."

O'Mara dismissed the notion that Zimmerman's apology was aimed at the judge whose decision it was to release him on bail, but said he did not realize the family would think it inappropriate.


"My concern is, I didn't realize that the way [Martin's family] had responded to me was through a press conference where they said it was too late or not an appropriate time," O'Mara said.


"To be honest, had I known that - maybe had I seen the press conference - I'm not sure that we would have done it at the bond hearing, because the purpose of it truly was to get to the family and to respond directly to the family's request. Had I known or been told that that wasn't the time, it wouldn't have happened. So, I apologize for that.
Let's recap: Mr. O'Meara didn't know his client's website had raised over $200,000 until after he was sprung on a measly $150,000 bond and he didn't know the "apology" his client made in open court to the Martin family was neither wanted nor appreciated until after he heard about it at their press conference.

I have to admit this guy is pretty slick. If O'Mara were any more oily he should have a pipeline shoved up his asshole and we could get gas prices under $3 bucks tomorrow.

I also have to admit I really thought O'Mara was more principled than the two ambulance chasers previously representing Zimmerman. Now I see he's just a more polished version of the same sort of snake oil salesman. Only far smarter and much more media savvy.

$200,000 won't buy Zimmerman his own version of O.J. Simpson's "Dream Team" legal counsel, but like 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea, it's a good start.

O'Mara is a vast improvement over those first ass clowns representing Zimmerman and he's good. REAL good. He ate the prosecution's lunch at the bail hearing and served it back up to them. They had better step their game up because while they're playing checkers, O'Mara is playing chess.
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
I don't know. He looked pissed on AC360. I think George kept the money a secret from his own damned lawyer! This guy is a freak; I'll say it again.

I wonder if the judge's reaction will be televised tomorrow? :ROFL:
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
It's so cute when you pretend to be objective, JWGriebel, and chide the rest of us for getting information from sources like CNN (which you did in another thread) then break out sites like the ones you linked to, which you might want to check again. Click on the first. I believe they're the source that had the photo of a kid who wasn't even Traryvon Martin. That could explain why there's nothing at that link.

And a blog that tries to paint Trayvon Martin as a drug dealer?

You know, I don't believe for a second that he was, but even if the worst the remarkably biased sites you linked to were true, so what? Zimmerman knew nothing that night except that a teenager was walking in his neighborhood and he decided that kid was an "a--hole" he did not want to get away, and complained that the teenager (who would not have known anything except a strange man in an SUV was watching then following him) ran away from him. It doesn't matter if Trayvon smoked or sold pot. He was walking home, unarmed, doing nothing wrong. He tried to run away from a strange man who was following him, a man who we know did not want him to get away.

I've asked before when you thought Zimmerman got his gun out. I can't recall; did you answer? Do you think it was when he was (allegedly) being straddled and having his head beaten on the ground. Do you think you could get a gun out of a waist-level holster if you were being straddled and beaten almost to unconsciousness?
 

FalconMage

Rob J. Vargas
Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
218
Reaction score
17
Location
Midwest, USA
Can we please give the defense attorney a break? This is what he's constitutionally obligated to do.

The defense tactics make me sick, but if we don't give these guys (almost) free reign to defend their clients, why have the principle of innocent until proven guilty?
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
The news sites ignore Martin's personal life/past.
"The" news sites? Actually, you have no idea what you're talking about. I've read about Trayvon's past on mainstream sites, including the New York Times and Miami Herald, to name two. Now, those sites, unlike yours, simply reported the facts and didn't try to twist them and exaggerate them to paint a kid who had a baggie with pot residue as a drug dealer and gang member.

Trayvon was a kid and he got into some trouble. But he was also a kid who was getting good grades in school and had a plan for his future (which is almost exactly like my 17-year-old nephew's plan; he's an aviation nut, too). A plan that ended because he walked home.

I don't think he was a drug dealer, but he was obviously a far cry from that "well-adjusted great boy" his parents have painted up if he was on his third suspension for drug paraphernalia.

He wasn't on his "third suspension for drug paraphernalia." You're a writer, since you're here, and should know better. Trayvon was not suspended three times for drugs. He was at the time of his killing suspended for pot residue in a baggie and I think maybe a pipe.

However, a history in drugs can show a level of paranoia that has been portrayed onto Zimmerman, and can lead to just as irrational of an action, such as attacking a man.
The "history in drugs" is pot residue in a baggie. What you're trying to make of that would be laughable if you weren't talking about a dead teenager.

If you want unbiased, read this, although it is still a little wavy because CNN admitted their fault on the "coon" quote and it was proved to be the words, "It's fucking cold."
It wasn't "proved" to be anything. There are differing opinions. Even at least one article you linked to points that out.

And this photo from your beloved CNN looks pretty legitamte to me of Zimmerman's head injury:
My "beloved" CNN? Well, it's better than Wagist and a bigoted, biased blog, which are your two sources.

So, you first say "the news" is biased and then you cite CNN showing what you think is a legitimate photo.

As such, you won't find any news reports delving into Martin's background. That in and of itself is suspicious.
It's also not true, since the stories are out there, and the only people saying they aren't are those who are also trying to smear a dead kid.

Also, there is no report that says Martin ran.
The hell? Zimmerman said so. And Trayvon's girlfriend said at first, he did not want to run, while she was speaking to him, but he thought he'd lost Zimmerman. But she also said at one point, he was going to or did run.

I wasn't trying to derail this into another Zimmerman/Martin debate, although I felt I should reply since you asked.
You weren't? So, you just wanted to present two biased sources to smear a dead kid and NOT have any discussion result. I probably shouldn't have even dignified it.
 

AncientEagle

Old kid, no need to be gentle.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,090
Reaction score
513
Location
Southern U.S.
If the fact that somebody MAY have used marijuana in the past and is walking home at night because they were suspended from school, and the fact that they are not a perfect person, and the fact that their parents, like most parents, think they were pretty wonderful—if those facts mean they can then be shot with impunity, we ought to at least set up an official firing squad to do it, not leave it to some jackass who decides to conduct police actions on his own.

And, as for Zimmerman being innocent until proven guilty, he is, in a court of law. AW is not a court of law, nor is the population at large. Therefore, we all have the right to call it as we see it, without being constantly reminded that he's innocent until proven guilty.

I have a lot of sympathy for Zimmerman. He did something in the heat of the moment for which he is no doubt profoundly sorry and which he will likely regret the rest of his life. Which may be short, unless he is protected for a long time. But let's keep things in balance. A kid is dead, and all because he was walking home peacefully. Zimmerman is alive. Given those facts, it's kinda hard to cast him as the victim.
 

Monkey

Is me.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
9,119
Reaction score
1,881
Location
Texas, usually
JW, Martin's suspension may have led to his staying in the gated community, but that's not why he was out that night and any stretching to make it seem relevant is just that - a stretch.

You are right that Zimmerman shot and killed a child and that is more important than the child's race. No one has suggested otherwise. Race comes in only as a possible MOTIVE- not for the killing itself, but for Zimmerman's suspicion and fear.

Well...and as a motive for those who don't know Zimmerman but steadfastly come to his defense even when one defense after another is shown false and/or irrelevant. But yes, that's just speculation.
 
Last edited:

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
I use a news report after you complain about my other sources, then you complain about me using a news site.
No, I pointed out that you have spent a lot of words condemning "the news" and specifically CNN (in an earlier post). Then you used CNN as a source.

I don't agree with what they say, but they are the only ones with the photo. Thus, I use your means to show you possible evidence which could be a break in the case and you then have the gall to tell me that, since I don't believe in what they say, I shouldn't use an article for a picture? Okay.
My "means?" Look at my post history. I use lots of different sources. So, yes, you used my means in using a source that isn't ridiculously biased, like the other sources you cited. Good move.

You keep using the whole "dead kid" thing the same way everyone has been using the "black kid" angle; as if it absolves Martin of any possibility of having had a hand in that night's events.
I use "dead kid" because he's a dead kid. I believe, based on all we know, that Martin did not bring about his own death, did nothing to justify his killing. He was deemed an "a--hole" who Zimmerman did not want to "get away." He ran from Zimmerman. Zimmerman followed. You can choose not to believe that, but it's what the evidence shows. For Martin to be the aggressor, both parties would have to completely reverse their motivations at roughly the same time. I don't buy that.

Of course, guilt trips don't work in a court room, and I don't let them sway the fact that I still have no way of knowing what happened that night, and neither do you, as a matter of fact.
But we do have certain facts and evidence. I discuss those. I am interested in discussing those. You appear to be, also, since you keep posting in Trayvon Martin threads. I think you can dispense with "we don't know what happened that night" since that's stating the obvious. We don't know all that happened, but we do know some of what happened. I am interested in discussing the case based on the information we have so far. You are, too, or at least you're interested in discussing how fair you are being while posting stories from Wagist.

And sure, the links I posted were biased, but I have yet to see an article that wasn't that actually took into consideration both Zimmerman's and Martin's personal lives.
They exist. I mentioned two sources. There are more. Now, they won't twist the facts to create a narrative that a kid who had a baggie and a pipe was a drug dealer, like your sources did. But they do contain facts about Trayvon that you wrongly say "the news" hasn't covered. When you say that, it is not true.

Trayvon didn't have to be paranoid to fear an adult male staring at him and following him from an SUV. He ran, which is what we tell kids to do when strangers follow them. He may have also fought to get away. We tell kids to do that, too. Even kids who sometimes smoke pot.

Because yes, evidence of drug use is considered a history, seeing as it is a past event and it had a baring on why Martin was on the street on that night. I'm not saying he didn't have a right to be there, but he wouldn't have been there if he hadn't been suspended.

I'm glad to see you've back off a bit from "a history in drugs can show a level of paranoia that has been portrayed onto Zimmerman, and can lead to just as irrational of an action, such as attacking a man" but still, what you've said is ridiculous. Trayvon could just as easily have been visiting his father. Gee, my sister got mugged going to the pharmacy for her kidney transplant anti-rejection medication (true). Should I blame her for not wanting to lose her kidney or my other sister for donating the kidney that put her in the path of a criminal?

As for running, here's an article that makes me scratch my head in wonder:

You said Martin never ran. Zimmerman said he did. His girlfriend said he did. I've done my own version of what that article attempts to do (well, without trying to paint Martin as "tracking" Zimmerman, which goes against the evidence) and if you take all the locations and times of phone calls yourself, you might see a different picture. Or you can keep visiting sites that are trying, actively trying, to paint Zimmerman as a victim.
 

RichardGarfinkle

Nurture Phoenixes
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
11,138
Reaction score
3,082
Location
Walking the Underworld
Website
www.richardgarfinkle.com
You keep using the whole "dead kid" thing the same way everyone has been using the "black kid" angle; as if it absolves Martin of any possibility of having had a hand in that night's events. Of course, guilt trips don't work in a court room, and I don't let them sway the fact that I still have no way of knowing what happened that night, and neither do you, as a matter of fact.
.

You might want to rephrase this. Some people might consider that the death of a child is more than just a '"dead kid" thing'

You seem to be neglecting what kind of case this is. This is not a situation where a person is declaring their innocence of a crime. Zimmerman admits to having done the killing. Zimmerman is claiming self defense. That is an affirmative defense. The burden of proof is legally and morally on his side.
The legalities will be dealt with in court.

But the admission of a killing, particularly the killing of a child, squarely
places the moral responsibility on the shoulders of the killer.

To justify such a killing more than innuendo is necessary and the propagation of innuendo in such circumstances can and should be met with a high degree of suspicion.
 

Miss Plum

Sockpuppet
Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
1,570
Reaction score
187
Can we please give the defense attorney a break? This is what he's constitutionally obligated to do.
Yes. Although we don't live in Obama's much-vaunted post-racial America, we also, thankfully, don't entirely live in a post-Constitutional America.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
The news sites ignore Martin's personal life/past.
I'm going to take a moment and debunk this statement. It's not hard because all I need is one "news site," since this was a sweeping generalization.

But I'll throw in a handful:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/u...rompts-a-review-of-ideals.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57404664/pot-traces-behind-trayvon-martin-suspension/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4685850...in-school-suspension-linked-pot/#.T5rWwKtYs98

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/30/us/trayvon-martin-profile/index.html

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...in-was-suspended-three-times-from-school?lite

I could keep going, and going, because there are hundreds if not thousands of stories on "the news sites," but this seems to enough to prove JW wrong. The difference between these sites and the two he linked to is that these sites presented the facts and didn't use them to create a "Trayvon was a drug-dealing punk who jumped an innocent man" narrative."
 

Vince524

Are you gonna finish that bacon?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
15,903
Reaction score
4,652
Location
In a house
Website
vincentmorrone.com
Here's a question. Is setting up a defense fund for Zimmerman wrong or illegal? I wouldn't contribute, but it's not unheard of, right?

And there is a point to be made about all the publicity about this case. I've heard people calling for the death penalty before ther trial even begins. (Not here. elsewhere.)
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
Here's an update:

Prosecutors in the Trayvon Martin shooting case asked a Florida judge today to increase the bail amount for George Zimmerman after news that the 17-year-old's killer had raised more than $200,000 through a Paypal account on his website.

Circuit Court judge Kenneth Lester Jr said he wanted to scrutinize the account to learn more about who opened the site, who managed it and exactly how much money it contained.

What may or may not be a problem is that Zimmerman was presented as indigent or close to when the judge set bail. The Paypal money was not disclosed.

But for now, the judge has rejected the request for the bail increase, pending more information.
 

thebloodfiend

Cory
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
3,771
Reaction score
630
Age
30
Location
New York
Website
www.thebooklantern.com
Smoking pot makes you attack people? Can you provide a link to support this?

Didn't you know? Big bad drug dealer Trayvon was just finishing up a million dollar pot deal and decided to smoke a bit of his stash before he walked home to steal jewelery from his grandmother. Stoned and paranoid, he came after Zimmerman, who was just minding his own business, with an AK-47 that squirted Ice Tea, and an Uzi that shot skittles. :rolleyes

I'm still lost at why Martin's past has anything to do with this. Zimmerman didn't know who Martin was. He could've been a homeless crackhead or a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize. It doesn't matter. Martin was minding his own business, Zimmerman called the police, and then he decided to take matters into his own hands.

None of the present facts show that Zimmerman was fighting for his life. Perhaps the gun accidentally went off? I'm willing to give him that. But he still killed a teenager who didn't deserve to die. Nothing's going to change that.
 

backslashbaby

~~~~*~~~~
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
12,635
Reaction score
1,603
Location
NC
Here's a question. Is setting up a defense fund for Zimmerman wrong or illegal? I wouldn't contribute, but it's not unheard of, right?

And there is a point to be made about all the publicity about this case. I've heard people calling for the death penalty before ther trial even begins. (Not here. elsewhere.)

His own attorney is working on setting one up 'done correctly', if I remember his quote from AC360 precisely.

The lawyer says that people do want to contribute, and that the money he has seen has been logged appropriately. This Paypal account with the hundreds of thousands was not divulged to him, according to last night's interview. He was told about one that was said to have 700-800 dollars.

The reason this is so important is because of the bail hearing. It looks as if George (if we can believe the attorney about the course of events) might have known about a great deal of money and not divulged that at a time where he was legally required to do so. His brother may have known about it, as he was not available to testify at the bail hearing (so he may have had motive to avoid the hearing).

Maybe there is another explanation that paints George and/or his brother in a better light, but so far, this is why it is a big moment in the case. Explanations will have to be made.
 

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
11,629
Reaction score
4,103
Location
CBUS
It's only fair that he has a good lawyer. After all, there has been a disturbing amount of bias involved in this case, and the way Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, The New Black Panthers, and the media blew this case up, compounded with Obama not having good sense and opening his mouth, still not understand the "I have no comment" line, the case never had a chance to be conducted properly in the first place.

I mean just look a little past what the camera's are rolling and there is some evidence that Martin wasn't the "well-adjusted, grade A teen" he has been portrayed as.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-lineh...-a-drug-dealer

http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=126213

So why shouldn't Zimmerman also receive support? It's only fair. After all, in America, you're innocent until proven guilty in the Court of Law. Thus far, he has not been proven guilty. He deserves a good defense.

With $200,000 in the kitty, he should be able to afford one and if you're innocent until proven guilty, maybe if Zimmerman had followed that principle instead of Trayvon, he wouldn't need the $200,000.

As for your links, the first doesn't work and they're both to shitty little blogs with so much bias oozing from them I'm going to use up a entire canister of screen wipes. Perhaps that's what you consider reliable sources, but you have to open the window to let the smell of rank bullshit out.

As far as the content of these sleaze pits and how eagerly you've incorporated into your shit spray here, I only have one question.

Is there no limit to how low you're willing to stoop to slime Trayvon Martin?

What does Travyon's social media messages have to do with the sad fate that befell him? Did George Zimmerman call them up on his IPad before parking his vehicle and pursing Martin on foot? Did Zimmerman think to himself, "I hope I don't have to shoot him, but if I do, better me than some other Black gang-banger taking him out."

Trayvon's Tweets and Facebook posts had ZERO to do with Zimmerman shooting him down. Zimmerman didn't know anything about him. Not even his name. He had never laid eyes on him before he killed him.

The only reason to even bring any of this up is for one reason and one reason only: it makes Trayvon look a little less like a victim and a little more like a bad kid who got what was coming to him sooner or later.

Kids are allowed to have bad attitudes or post dumb things on social media websites. Kids are allowed to be influenced by the wrong things and hang with dicey characters. Kids are allowed to say things they may not mean or fully understand. Kids are allowed to mess up because they ARE kids.

But apparently not if their name is "Trayvon" and not "Brad", "Chris" or "Grant." Or JWGriebel. That is when they have to lumped into a category and turned in a stereotype. Then they become less of a victim and a little more like a potential threat.

And if by muddying the waters and dirtying up a dead kid is what it takes to get Zimmerman off then bring on the hoses and mud.

It's sad and a little bit sick to get a live killer off you have to stoop to killing his victim a second time.

I wasn't trying to derail this into another Zimmerman/Martin debate, although I felt I should reply since you asked. I wanted to point out that it is only fair Zimmerman get some sort of humane treatment as people have blindly been following news report A, B or C and not bothering to look into anything on Martin's side. And the OP was very adamant about keeping this a racial crime, so i wanted to point out that it can go both ways.

Oh, don't worry. You've made it abundantly clear you want to keep this a racial crime as well. The extraordinary lengths you are willing to go to slime Trayvon Martin makes that glaringly obvious.
 

Chrissy

Bright and Early for the Daily Race
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
7,249
Reaction score
2,005
Location
Mad World
Who gives a shit if he was I don't think the issue is whether he was a drug dealer, or a user, or whatever.??

What, I don't think only well-adjusted boys should be exempt from getting shot.?

I believe Zimmerman should have sat his ass remained in the car after calling the police and let them deal with it.

I'm not comfortable with judging the incident based on Martin's "past." is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT.
 
Last edited:

Williebee

Capeless, wingless, & yet I fly.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
20,569
Reaction score
4,814
Location
youtu.be/QRruBVFXjnY
Website
www.ifoundaknife.com
MOD NOTE:

Folks, we aren't trying to set a record for how many threads on one topic can get locked. If you can't keep the sneering and condescension out of your post you probably shouldn't post it. Take a breath, take a walk. This story is going to be around for a long while.
 

muravyets

Old revolutionary
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
7,212
Reaction score
974
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
I have to say that, in general, I'm just floored by the hostility towards Trayvon Martin. I thought the victim-blaming in sex crimes cases was bad (and it is), but damn, the dog-piling on this one shooting victim is astonishing. I don't understand what's so special about George Zimmerman that he has to be so vehemently defended against the consequences of his actions, even to the point of smearing the memory of the unarmed, non-offending kid he shot. Just because the dead can't be slandered, legally, that doesn't make it right, or even logical. Exactly which cause, I wonder, is that worthless moron Zimmerman being made the martyr/poster child for?
 

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
11,629
Reaction score
4,103
Location
CBUS
I have to say that, in general, I'm just floored by the hostility towards Trayvon Martin. I thought the victim-blaming in sex crimes cases was bad (and it is), but damn, the dog-piling on this one shooting victim is astonishing. I don't understand what's so special about George Zimmerman that he has to be so vehemently defended against the consequences of his actions, even to the point of smearing the memory of the unarmed, non-offending kid he shot. Just because the dead can't be slandered, legally, that doesn't make it right, or even logical. Exactly which cause, I wonder, is that worthless moron Zimmerman being made the martyr/poster child for?

Mmmm...maybe the cause that not all human beings possess equal value and if they aren't considered full human beings with the same rights as those that are, it's not as serious a crime to kill one.

The rich compared to the poor, the immigrant to the native born, the female to the male, the Black to the White, the gay to the straight, your team vs. my team. It doesn't take much for the lines of demarcation to be drawn and why the blue shirts are superior to the green shirts.

It's a pretty old story and various races and groups seem to take their turn being in the devalued "not fully human" group.
 

muravyets

Old revolutionary
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
7,212
Reaction score
974
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
I agree entirely with that assessment, NT, but I still don't get what it is about Zimmerman that has so entranced those who think that way -- or think whatever it is they're thinking, before I get dog-piled with snide remarks about "generalizations" or whatever. I don't get why it's such a horror for people to just come out and say that guy shot an unarmed kid for no reason. Why is that a terrible thing to point out about George Zimmerman?

I mean, for fuck's sake, he's the hero of the moment? He is going to be the face the <Name of Preferred Group That Should Be Allowed To Shoot Selected Kids At Will>? Out of all the violent, paranoid, self-centered, juvenile, attention-whoring, murderous scum in the nation, this one, George Zimmerman, is the star they want to hitch their wagon to? The one who committed a killing without even the thinnest veneer of justification?

Well, good. I hope he takes them down with him, socially.
 
Last edited:

Atlantis

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
1,146
Reaction score
103
Here's a question. Is setting up a defense fund for Zimmerman wrong or illegal? I wouldn't contribute, but it's not unheard of, right?

And there is a point to be made about all the publicity about this case. I've heard people calling for the death penalty before ther trial even begins. (Not here. elsewhere.)

I've read a lot about this case and the whole thing has sickened and saddened me to a horrific level. Something else that sickens me though is the amount of hatred and anger being directed at Zimmerman.

Like it or not, the man has not been proven guilty yet, and he has every right to try and raise funds for his defense. I think it was completely unethical of him to do so and I visited his site and found it to be disrespectful and distasteful and just plain wrong.

BUT I respect the fact that he had every right to do it. Every person deserves a fair trial. Every person deserves to try and mount the best defense they can. If that means asking for donations then who I am to try and stop him from doing what is within his rights?

I think the man is guilty as hell and I hope he gets locked up for a long time but realistically, sadly, I think he's been over charged and he'll walk.
 

RichardGarfinkle

Nurture Phoenixes
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
11,138
Reaction score
3,082
Location
Walking the Underworld
Website
www.richardgarfinkle.com
I agree entirely with that assessment, NT, but I still don't get what it is about Zimmerman that has so entranced those who think that way -- or think whatever it is they're thinking, before I get dog-piled with snide remarks about "generalizations" or whatever. I don't get why it's such a horror for people to just come out and say that guy shot an unarmed kid for no reason. Why is that a terrible thing to point out about George Zimmerman?

I mean, for fuck's sake, he's the hero of the moment? He is going to be the face the <Name of Preferred Group That Should Be Allowed To Shoot Selected Kids At Will>? Out of all the violent, paranoid, self-centered, juvenile, attention-whoring, murderous scum in the nation, this one, George Zimmerman, is the star they want to hitch their wagon to? The one who committed a killing without even the thinnest veneer of justification?

Well, good. I hope he takes them down with him, socially.

I think to some people Zimmerman is the equivalent of Batman. He was a citizen being 'vigilant'

This isn't the first time a person shooting unarmed people of a different race was praised. I remember Bernie Goetz in New York
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz

Goetz' case is not exactly analogous, since it's possible he was shooting people trying to mug him. But the lauding for vigilantism is the same.

I think there is a cultural desire for this to be the right course of action.

Warning: I'm about to get cold-bloodedly writerish.

If we look not at the reality of what happened but at the basic story arc:
Neighborhood patrol person sees person he deems suspicious
Plot happens
Neighborhood patrol person shoots and kills person he deemed suspicious.

What plot people prefer in the middle depends a lot on which character they find sympathetic.

The innocent kid scenario leads to looking at the plot elements of Martin being stalked and killed.

The Batman scenario leads to Zimmerman valiantly fighting off this dangerous hood.

The initial selection of plot preference is likely visceral. That's where prejudice comes in. It's also where all the complex psychology of blaming the victim comes in.

What comes after depends on several things . Evidence is, in theory, the most important, but it's not the only important thing to everyone.

In particular, there's a process that I don't know the technical psychological term for where people cling more and more tenacsiously to their views and make up more and more complex stories to justify holding on to the view. It's related to confirmation bias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Not everyone will do the latter, but those that do will likely become the increasingly vocal supporters of the side that is failing on the evidence front.

Your earlier comment about victim blaming in sex crimes also fits this, but I don't think I can keep up this level of cold-blooded analysis into that.