[Publisher] Posh Books

Indeed. To be a "scam" it would need to be somehow illegal or other than what it appears. I think the deal being offered is pretty clear.

Exploitation doesn't stop being exploitation just because one is being upfront and honest about it.

And being as how you admit your business model won't be popular at a writers' site such as this proves that you know you're exploiting people who probably don't know better.

Terie said:

Exploitation doesn't stop being exploitation just because one is being upfront and honest about it.

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I do admit that we are taking advantage of other people's missing knowledge/indifference/ignorance, but from that to call it exploitation is like comparing capitalism to slavery. As much as they are similar, nobody is forcing anyone into doing something they don't want to.

PoshBooks.com said:

I do admit that we are taking advantage of other people's missing knowledge/indifference/ignorance, but from that to call it exploitation is like comparing capitalism to slavery. As much as they are similar, nobody is forcing anyone into doing something they don't want to.

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Let's see what the dictionary has to say about the word exploit:

Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary said:

2: to make use of meanly or unjustly for one's own advantage

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And hey, here's how it defines exploitative:

Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary said:

unfairly or cynically using another person or group for profit or advantage

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Based on your own words above, you are clearly being exploitative. If you don't like the word being applied to your business model, change your business model to something that's not exploitative. But don't pretend that the current model is anything but exploitative, evidenced by your own words.

PoshBooks.com said:

I do admit that we are taking advantage of other people's missing knowledge/indifference/ignorance...

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Meaning that yes, you are exploiting writers. It might be legal, but it's nevertheless an ugly thing to do.

I'm not keen on this business venture (not just because of the rights issues, but because I don't think it will make money--to exploit the long tail, which seems to be the idea here, you need a truly massive amount of content, which I'm not confident they'll be able to acquire), but I think that Posh is being polite and forthcoming in the face of criticism. Worth acknowledging.

- Victoria

I can see where some of you are going, however try and picture a different situation: let's say James wrote a novel when he was in college, 3 years ago. He was quite a dreamer back then, but life proved him otherwise. He now works as a junior programmer in a small software development company. He stumbles upon my ad. His novel never left his hard drive and he's not bothered to change that. Getting a few hundred bucks for it doesn't hurt at all at this point.

So yes, I do take advantage of the situation, meaning that I get myself a novel. Which may not even be worth as much as I paid for it, but that's for me to deal with afterwards. And James gets some cash for when he goes out with his buddies or whatever.

This "James" is who we're looking for, we are not trying to be the villain who robs desperate people of their work of a lifetime, like you probably picture our business model to do.

-----

Anyhow, I am not here to make friends nor to argue indefinitely. This discussion is trending beyond my scope so unless anyone has any other questions strictly related to our activity, I would prefer not to go into further polemics.

Thank you

PS Please excuse my English, it's far from being my native language. But I'm doing my best

His business model is not unique. Throughout publishing history, people (writers, songwriters etc.) have sold their works for a flat fee and given away all rights. Occasionally the work has turned out to be a masterpiece--or anyway, a huge hit--and the creator has naturally felt cheated.

I wouldn't have anything to do with such an enterprise personally, but I think Mihai is being honest about his business.

Yes, he's being honest and answering questions, which is great.

It was just that "sure, we're taking advantage of people's ignorance" that I found so off-putting.

eqb said:

It was just that "sure, we're taking advantage of people's ignorance" that I found so off-putting.

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Actually I said "I do admit that we are taking advantage of other people's missing knowledge/indifference/ignorance".

And, not to be rude or something, but some people are indeed ignorant/careless.

PoshBooks.com said:

And, not to be rude or something, but some people are indeed ignorant/careless.

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Which is where sites like AW, thankfully, come in.

PoshBooks, I agree with Victoria: you deserve praise for remaining so respectful while under some pressure, and I thank you for that. It's impressive.

I really don't think you do intend to exploit writers; and as I've said before, I don't think you're out to scam anyone either. But I am still worried by how you plan to do business.

I know how desperate to be published some writers can be; and I know how ill-informed many new writers are about the publishing business.

You might be hoping to attract writers like the fictional James you described; but I am really concerned that you'll also attract hopeful aspiring writers who don't understand the limitations of your business model, who don't realise that if they work with you their books aren't going to end up on the shelves of their local bookshops, and who really think that they're getting a contract with a trade publisher.

I don't think you make it clear enough on your website that you don't do these things for the writers whose books you buy. I'd be far happier if you were much more up-front on your website about your business practices, and how your business model differs from trade publishing. Because as it stands I think you are going to attract writers who hope that publication with you is going to be a step to a real writing career, and I don't think that's fair.

Old Hack: Thank you for your kind words. I've learned quite a bit over the past 24 hours since I became a member here (and I am sure there is plenty more to learn) and I agree that we will have to make some adjustments to our website.

Since we're not after one quick pick with which to run away leaving "victims" behind, but rather keen on building a portfolio and evolve over time, we would also want to make our intentions as clear as possible so that in the end everyone stays happy.

In the free market people can offer people money for stuff. I wouldn't recommend this offer to anyone, but ultimately if the contract is clear, and everyone involved understands it, adults are responsible for the deals they make.

Hmm...I think I did call this one correct. But I was naive in thinking that it's a recent development.

Tri

I can see someone selling their work to Posh Books, even for a pittance. I have more trouble seeing anyone selling their work when they won't even be acknowledged as the author. You'd have to be very hungry, indeed.

I worry that Posh Books will receive a flurry of submissions stolen from other sources. Although PB seems aboveboard in their business practices, how difficult would it be for a crook to copy and paste a little known electronic novel and offer it to a Romanian business owner that's building a portfolio?

AnneGlynn said:

Although PB seems aboveboard in their business practices, how difficult would it be for a crook to copy and paste a little known electronic novel and offer it to a Romanian business owner that's building a portfolio?

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There was a publisher recently caught doing this very thing. Unfortunately, it's all too easy. And yes, that's a concern I hadn't even thought of, but which bears considering. Not to mention copying free novels off the net, or fanfiction or other 'free read' material hosted at various sites across the net.

You could guess that it is in our interest to thoroughly screen any submissions against plagiarism. $200-300 may be a "pittance" for someone in the US (although it's more than pennies), but it goes a long(er) way in Romania and it's an amount we wouldn't just want to throw away.

PS If it makes anyone feel better, we're far from getting a "flurry of submissions" at this point. In fact things are rather going the opposite way.

I think one of the ways Absolute Write can help writers avoid mistaking Posh Books for a publisher is to take the "publisher" tag off the title of this thread. I don't know what people and organizations who are in the business of acquiring intellectual property rights use as a self-descriptor, though.

IceCreamEmpress said:

I think one of the ways Absolute Write can help writers avoid mistaking Posh Books for a publisher is to take the "publisher" tag off the title of this thread.. . . .

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I second that motion. It is a deceptive word there.

--Ken

CaoPaux said:

Regardless of how they acquire the rights, if they publish the books themselves, they're a publisher. If it turns out they broker the rights to third-party publishers, I'll change the descriptor accordingly.

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It sounds like the latter is closer to their business model. Perhaps PoshBooks.com will return and clarify. I have done work for hire and flat fee arrangements with publishers, so I am not unfamiliar with that model, but it doesn't sound like that's what PoshBooks.com is doing, either.