Are you going for mainstream or self-publishing?

Cyia said:

I've got books in the pipeline with the Big 6, but I'm curious by nature and I'd love to put a book out through the Amazon self-pub route at some point, under a pseudonym, and do a side-by-side comparison of the two sales-wise. To have a semi-controlled experiment, though, there's really no way to have an accurate comparison given the number of variables involved in any type of publication.

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*sits next to Cyia* That's my reasoning as well. And I'm throwing in epublisher as well to get a wide spectrum. They're all options available and I'd like to give all of them a chance.

Probably biting off more than I can chew, who knows? Won't know until I give it a shot.

authorilinca said:

No, but really, I want to go for the real stuff.

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*sighs*

Cyia said:

Honestly? I want to do both.

I've got books in the pipeline with the Big 6, but I'm curious by nature and I'd love to put a book out through the Amazon self-pub route at some point, under a pseudonym, and do a side-by-side comparison of the two sales-wise. To have a semi-controlled experiment, though, there's really no way to have an accurate comparison given the number of variables involved in any type of publication.

Of course, I'd also have to have this phantom novel finished, edited, and outfitted with decent cover art because I won't throw something into the Amazon without giving it a decent shot at getting noticed.

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That's tremendously interesting. If you or bearilou do this, would you consider blogging the experience so the rest of us could learn from your journey?

CaroGirl said:

That's tremendously interesting. If you or bearilou do this, would you consider blogging the experience so the rest of us could learn from your journey?

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I hadn't considered it (and I don't know why I hadn't. just never occurred to me, I guess) but I will!

"So, Uncle Jim, do you have any experience with this?"

"Dunno how relevant it is, but yes, I think I do. Same texts, separated in time by twenty years: The Bad Blood books (YA horror series; three titles).

"They earned around $30,000 back in the early 'nineties.

"We've put them back in 'print' by electronic self-publishing, and they've earned around $30."

"That bad?"

"Yeah."

$30?


ouch....and that's with some name recognition of the book and author. :-(

Cyia said:

Honestly? I want to do both.

I've got books in the pipeline with the Big 6, but I'm curious by nature and I'd love to put a book out through the Amazon self-pub route at some point, under a pseudonym, and do a side-by-side comparison of the two sales-wise. To have a semi-controlled experiment, though, there's really no way to have an accurate comparison given the number of variables involved in any type of publication.

Of course, I'd also have to have this phantom novel finished, edited, and outfitted with decent cover art because I won't throw something into the Amazon without giving it a decent shot at getting noticed.

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See, now that's a great idea! You know how it is with the big boys, so you can play with the little and see the real difference! I'd love to know how it goes

CaroGirl said:

That's tremendously interesting. If you or bearilou do this, would you consider blogging the experience so the rest of us could learn from your journey?

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That's exactly what I want to do. I already have the blog set-up (currently set to private, so don't ask yet), but have to wait a while because of contract clauses with a debut novel and all. I'd hoped to do it from the point I signed my first contract, but alas. 'twas not to be.

I know someone considering self-pubbing, so I might be able to go ahead using their data for the self-pub side of it without waiting. We shall see...

Cyia said:

That's exactly what I want to do. I already have the blog set-up (currently set to private, so don't ask yet), but have to wait a while because of contract clauses with a debut novel and all. I'd hoped to do it from the point I signed my first contract, but alas. 'twas not to be.

I know someone considering self-pubbing, so I might be able to go ahead using their data for the self-pub side of it without waiting. We shall see...

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If you show me yours, I'll show you mine.

*will send pm instead of being all exhibitionistic at this point*

My initial response would be 'mainstream' because I'm not really after making money or even selling. I'm after the ego boost.

She said, feeling no shame whatsoever over her her shallowness.

I'm shooting for what I consider the stars: mainstream publishing, whether by a member of the Big Six or an independent, and availability at major retailer locations -- that's more important to me than making big dollars off my work (which would also be nice, of course). What's most important to me is proving to my young children that hard work makes dreams come true. My dream is seeing my books in print and for sale at Barnes and Noble, Books-A-Million, and so on.

I wasn't aware I had to choose. I'm with Bearilou and Cyia.

I want to do both. I want Big 6 but I also know I have a couple story ideas that may be really tough sells since the market is saturated. Hell, my current wip that I want to Big 6 might be hard sell with all the fairy shit running around on TV and in books. My only saving grace is that I don't actually use the words fairy or fae. I'm hoping it's got enough meat to make it desirable to the Big 6.

I'm not discounting anything. I don't believe I need to pick one over the other. I certainly don't subscribe to anything that tells me that one is better than the other. There are pros and cons to both and I think it's silly to limit oneself.

The main issue I see is making sure that no matter what you do, do it well. Provide a quality product. Know your limitations. Know that self-pubbing means swimming in the dreck and hoping you're found (assuming you aren't part of the dreck). Know that trade publishing isn't instant success. Be realistic about any endeavor.

I'm not a one basket kind of gal. I do want Big 6 because I want legitimacy. Call me an elitist. Call me a snob. Call me stupid. I really don't care. I want self-pubbing because the future of publishing is still on shaky ground. We still don't know exactly how it's all going to eventually play out and at it's not like it's bad to have other reasonable choices.

I like both options.

Mainstream for my non-erotic stuff.

Cyia said:

That's exactly what I want to do. I already have the blog set-up (currently set to private, so don't ask yet), but have to wait a while because of contract clauses with a debut novel and all. I'd hoped to do it from the point I signed my first contract, but alas. 'twas not to be.

I know someone considering self-pubbing, so I might be able to go ahead using their data for the self-pub side of it without waiting. We shall see...

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I actually think it would be more interesting to see a comparison of a debut trade author and then what happens when that same author self-pubs. I'd like to know if your self-pub sales start off strong when you finally publish it. I'd like to see it from the stand point of a debut author and not an established author. I could see how contract issues could arise with that, though, non-compete clause and all. How long is a standard non-compete clause? Could you get one out under your real name after your debut but before your follow up? You're not allowed to divulge your pen name immediately, are you? (I really don't know how that works with non-compete clauses so if it's a dumb question, you know what to do.)

I think *that* would be awesome. We have plenty of data on established authors and there are plenty of people providing data sets on their self-pubbed sales. Debut authors and what happens next would be hot stuff.

anyone know any good sites for e-publishing advice?

aoliver said:

anyone know any good sites for e-publishing advice?

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You're on one of the best.

There are people here who publish with e-presses, and those who self-e-publish. Check out some of the forum headings.

I suspect this current novel is going to go small press. If it lands higher, I would obviously be pleased, but it's going to see the light of day.

Phaeal said:

The reverse is also true: Just because it's a bad book doesn't mean it won't sell.

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BOY HOWDY. I've read some absolutely awful stuff that was traditionally published.

There's also the "Oh-SO-AND-SO-wrote-this-and-I-loved-her-SUCH-AND-SUCH" phenomenon. Which is by way of saying that if Libbie hits it big with another book, I expect her "narrow appeal" book will suddenly find a much wider audience.

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Yes, I suspect that is exactly what will happen. Once I've built up an audience through traditional publishing, which I am sure will happen at some point since I continue to aggressively pursue it, I think it's likely that more readers will find my self-published historical fiction. Cool. I hope they enjoy it. If/when that happens, I suspect that book may actually turn a profit, though years down the road. But I don't have the expectation that this will happen. I have virtually no expectations with my self-published book, except that most of the people who read it will enjoy it.

Cyia said:

Honestly? I want to do both.

I've got books in the pipeline with the Big 6, but I'm curious by nature and I'd love to put a book out through the Amazon self-pub route at some point, under a pseudonym, and do a side-by-side comparison of the two sales-wise. To have a semi-controlled experiment, though, there's really no way to have an accurate comparison given the number of variables involved in any type of publication.

Of course, I'd also have to have this phantom novel finished, edited, and outfitted with decent cover art because I won't throw something into the Amazon without giving it a decent shot at getting noticed.

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And this, too, is part of what decided me to self-publish this book. The publishing industry is changing...maybe in huge ways, maybe in tiny ways, but technological advances have made self-publishing and e-publishing more common. Why not figure out how to navigate that waterway, if you've got the spare book to try it with? A little experimentation never hurt anybody, as long as you do it in a smart, controlled way and try to avoid the big mistakes.

CaroGirl said:

That's tremendously interesting. If you or bearilou do this, would you consider blogging the experience so the rest of us could learn from your journey?

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For what it's worth, I do blog about the very same experience. Check my blog under the pen name Lavender Ironside, in my sig. Lately I haven't had much to say on it, since I've been wrapped up in finishing my latest novel and querying it to agents, but I will have more to say on it shortly, when I look at how my sales and exposure change when I release a second self-published title. Relevant posts are tagged with "What it's like to self-publish." I hope you find the blog interesting!

i don't really have any interest in self-publishing. not saying i think it's wrong or i don't support it, and it's awesome for those who go that route and really enjoy doing that and can something back for it, i just don't think it's in the cards for me.

Medievalist said:

Not sure why you think that—but there's a reason a lot of writers have pen names.

There's no shame in that. And it's really really common.

Talk to your agent/editor/publisher when the time comes.

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I mean it might give me trouble getting an agent/editor/publisher in the first place - if they look me up and see all those self-pubed titles and horrible covers. But I suppose they don't bother to take the time to do that. After all, usually, they don't even bother to take the time to send a form rejection.

I have two small press published titles as well. The cover design and blurb writing leaves something to be desired on those as well, although the reviews on average are good.

I may be destined to hover in the small press realm for fiction titles and the self-published realm for nonfiction titles. We'll see what the future holds.

Self-publishing in ebook format is no cost, quick and easy, and earns me wine money, so I don't mind it. But the problem is the lack of respect. I did self-publish one fiction title, and I ended up earning more than my second small press published novel but less than my first. I think if I had gone with a small publisher for that title, it would have been a wash financially - more copies sold, but less money per copy.

But obviously, a big house is your best bet, for reputation and money, if you can get accepted by one. I'm not sure I can. Doesn't mean I won't try.

Cyia said:

Honestly? I want to do both.

I've got books in the pipeline with the Big 6, but I'm curious by nature and I'd love to put a book out through the Amazon self-pub route at some point, under a pseudonym, and do a side-by-side comparison of the two sales-wise.

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This might interest you. Something that I found interesting about this particular author, just a couple of years ago she had an established career and following but was still struggling to earn enough for it to be her career.

She did have that established readership when she independently self-published, and the books in question were returned rights, however this echoes what I've heard from quite a few established authors. If there is a following and a backlist ready to put out independently, there is a lot of money to be made. One big six author told me she considers her NY print books advertising for the books she puts out through digital pubs and self-pub. most of her money comes from digital sales, both through her epublishers and through various books and short stories she independently publishes.

Flipside is someone like me. I have three books out with a digital publisher and one self-pub. My self-pub monthly sales are single-digit. I have seen a correlation between sales of my self-pubs and my digital pubs. When I released my independent story, there was a tiny bump in my other books. When my epub released in February, there was an immediate jump in my self-pub sales. It's small but there and still holding.

Right now what I make at my publisher far eclipses what I make on my own. I'm a new and unknown author and I simply don't have pull yet.. I plan on getting a self-pub library out there though, so that as I get more well known I can take advantage of it.

I am too lazy to do self publishing, and too poor. There are cover art costs, whatever it costs to get it up on Smashwords or whatever. You have to publicize it, and I think you fight a stigma as a self publisher (which I equate with Indie publishers!), because it hasn't been accepted or deemed publishable by anyone but the author.

I know my limitations. I am not perfect and need professional editing and cover art and putting it out there kind of thing. I need to be mainstreamed published, but it looks like I am going with small press. There are limitations to that, but it works for me right now with this manuscript.

Jill
Divided Moon -YA under contract with Solstice Publishing
What Goes Up, Must Fall Down - MG in revisions

JKRowley said:

I am too lazy to do self publishing, and too poor. There are cover art costs, whatever it costs to get it up on Smashwords or whatever.

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It costs nothing to get on Smashwords. You just set up an account and go for it.

Bufty said:

Good luck, but I'm curious, David.

You said in another thread that your editor queried your opening in first person and then switching to third person, so you changed the opening to third.

Does Smashwords provide editorial services? I don't know -hence the question.

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Sorry, I wasn't very clear! My 'editor' was actually my friend's Mum! I'm not sure if Smashwords offer editorial services either!

Poignantly though, if you read my book, you'll see that the dedication is 'for Eileen'. Eileen is my friend's mum who edited it. She has since passed away, after a very short illness, and it was her passing that motivated me to get the book finished and out there!

I can't imagine somebody putting in all the hard work writing a novel requires and not at least "going for" mainstream publishing. Isn't it every novelist's dream to be on the shelves at Barnes and Nobles, and go on a book tour, etc. ?

That said, if you can't crack the mainstream publishing industry, there's nothing wrong with self-publishing. More and more people are doing it these days and some seem to be having legitimate success with it, so... Although, personally, if I get rejected by the mainstream publishing markets, I'll likely be discouraged from putting it out there for the whole world to see.