Moonshine Cove Publishing LLC / Laughing Lune Publishing

I take exception to most of what's in that thread about Sharlene. I have had nothing but good experiences dealing with her. The "minimum fee" was charged, but I didn't see that as unreasonable, and it was clearly outlined in the contract I signed to start with her agency.

She collects no money on royalties that are paid until those royalties would have matched the minimum fee she already collected from the advance. So once a book earns out its advance, she starts collecting her fee on the royalties. Most books don't ever earn out their advances, so she's making sure she gets paid for the hard work she did to get the book sold to a publisher. The author gets paid, too. I don't understand why people think that's shady. Yes, I did a lot of hard work writing the book, but the publisher would never have known about it if Sharlene hadn't gone to bat for it with them and then hammered away at them to get a larger advance than the one they were offering.

The advance they first offered would have more than covered her minimum fee, but she went to bat to get more - and the only thing that did was increase the amount of money I made on the advance. It didn't put a single penny more in her pocket. Sharlene has been a good agent. If she represented fiction, I would never have even heard of Moonshine Cove, because I would have stayed with her unquestionably.

No money ever left my pocket and made its way into hers. The only money she ever got from me was what she collected from what the publisher paid.

The minimum fee bothers me because an agent stands to make their money before you see a dime.

When they charge a flat 15%, their goal is to get as much as possible out of a publisher so both of you can make as much as possible. If they charge a minimum fee and get it either way, where is their incentive to negotiate a better deal for you?

I responded to this in the thread on Sharlene. Back to Moonshine Cove, I believe I could have done a better job myself. I mean, if I wanted my book to be Print On Demand with a cover I designed myself and editing I did myself with blurbs and reviews I got myself, what the hell did I need them for?

Right on, Leif. The point of a publisher is to do all these things for you, even if they are a minuscule royalty-only operation, so that you the author concentrate on writing more stuff. And yes, editing with outfits like this is a bit of a Catch-22--by the time you can clearly and simply articulate why their edits suck and they should back off--you've outgrown this level anyway. And while you still haven't--they get their way...

dondomat said:

Right on, Leif. The point of a publisher is to do all these things for you, even if they are a minuscule royalty-only operation, so that you the author concentrate on writing more stuff. And yes, editing with outfits like this is a bit of a Catch-22--by the time you can clearly and simply articulate why their edits suck and they should back off--you've outgrown this level anyway. And while you still haven't--they get their way...

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Lesson learned, I guess.

My greatest failing in that whole situation was I didn't do my homework.

I figured "traditional publishing" covered a fairly standard set of practices, and without digging around to see how wrong I was, I was a sitting duck for their particular type of scam.

Though I'm not out any money, I now have to settle for my book having been published by the equivalent of doing it myself.

Well, "scam" is a bit strong, but "waste of space" sounds about right.

Onward and upward! I firmly believe most talented writers have inside them a specific personal style, a brand. In this forum we have Mr. William Meikle, who also started out, not that long ago, with a dodgy publisher or two, but then evolved real fast, and now is a pro writer, working annually with 2-3 pro publishers whose profile is dealing with his type of stuff--vintage pulp adventures of which he surprisingly quickly became one of the very best writers of our time.

Many other successes too, of course, on this forum, but this one basically showed how to find your brand and your niche and become a master at what you do and a full-time writer, without either having to deal with the huge corporate publishers, or being a self-pub maverick, but simply doing what you do until everything clicks in one way or another.

It just takes a whole lot of work to unearth one's special thing and become a recognizable name, but once it's there--stand back and grab a Kindle

dondomat said:

Well, "scam" is a bit strong, but "waste of space" sounds about right.

Onward and upward! I firmly believe most talented writers have inside them a specific personal style, a brand. In this forum we have Mr. William Meikle, who also started out, not that long ago, with a dodgy publisher or two, but then evolved real fast, and now is a pro writer, working annually with 2-3 pro publishers whose profile is dealing with his type of stuff--vintage pulp adventures of which he surprisingly quickly became one of the very best writers of our time.

Many other successes too, of course, on this forum, but this one basically showed how to find your brand and your niche and become a master at what you do and a full-time writer, without either having to deal with the huge corporate publishers, or being a self-pub maverick, but simply doing what you do until everything clicks in one way or another.

It just takes a whole lot of work to unearth one's special thing and become a recognizable name, but once it's there--stand back and grab a Kindle

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I'm not sure what you're replying to.

leifwright said:

I'm not sure what you're replying to.

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Sorry, I get that way sometimes.

Well, "scam" is a bit strong, but "waste of space" sounds about right.

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Self-evident.

Onward and upward! I firmly believe most talented writers have inside them a specific personal style, a brand. In this forum we have Mr. William Meikle, who also started out, not that long ago, with a dodgy publisher or two, but then evolved real fast, and now is a pro writer, working annually with 2-3 pro publishers whose profile is dealing with his type of stuff--vintage pulp adventures of which he surprisingly quickly became one of the very best writers of our time.

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Translation: So a useless little epub snares one at the start. Doesn't matter. We have fresh examples in this forum of great writers starting like that and then making their mark anyway.

Many other successes too, of course, on this forum, but this one basically showed how to find your brand and your niche and become a master at what you do and a full-time writer, without either having to deal with the huge corporate publishers, or being a self-pub maverick, but simply doing what you do until everything clicks in one way or another.

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Translation: Additional elaboration on the previous paragraph; includes small ode to the virtues of the legit and efficient small publishers.

It just takes a whole lot of work to unearth one's special thing and become a recognizable name, but once it's there--stand back and grab a Kindle

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Translation: The future awaits, success is behind the corner, good luck and keep writing.

dondomat said:

Sorry, I get that way sometimes.



Self-evident.


Translation: So a useless little epub snares one at the start. Doesn't matter. We have fresh examples in this forum of great writers starting like that and then making their mark anyway.



Translation: Additional elaboration on the previous paragraph; includes small ode to the virtues of the legit and efficient small publishers.



Translation: The future awaits, success is behind the corner, good luck and keep writing.

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Right on. Thanks for the translations.

Also a good lesson in researching agents, too. I looked up Sharlene Martin, and wasn't that impressed.

CaoPaux said:

Laughing Lune didn't survive '14. Nothing published.

Leif, did Sharlene at any point advise you against signing with this publisher? Because while it's all well and good she negotiated the advance to cover her fee, at the end of the day, she gets her money, and you're left with a poorly published book.

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No, she didn't, because she doesn't represent fiction.

My contract with Moonshine Cove wasn't negotiated through her.

I know people here say they're not excited about Sharlene, but she negotiated a good deal on my nonfiction book, and I was very happy with her representation. If I liked to write nonfiction, I'd still be repped by her.

CaoPaux said:

This isn't a matter of fiction v. nonfiction, however. Any agent worth her commission knows how to vet a publisher (marketing, distribution, sales...). So, did she recognize MCP as an amateur e/POD or not?

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She is only my nonfiction agent.

Since the book was a fiction book, she had no input whatsoever into Moonshine Cove, and I'd be willing to bet money she's never heard of them.

She negotiated more money for my nonfiction book. She was not involved in the Moonshine Cove deal.

CaoPaux said:

Ah. That launches another fleet of questions, but I'll let 'em sail. Thank you for answering.

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Ask away

I was offered a publishing contract by Moonshine Cove recently. Reading through the contract and comparing online samples and advice, I felt very uneasy.A friend (a published author) pointed out that although the company says that they pay for editing, cover, distribution, in section 3 of the contract it states:

"For all rights granted hereunder, the Publisher will pay the Author royalties on the basis of net revenues, defined as the total compensation received from sales of the Work to retailers less all book, editorial, production, distribution and accounting costs."

So once signed, I am agreeing that they will pay me after deducting the services which was their responsibility. This and a few other lines convinced me that I would see very little return from my 3 yr investment. I declined the offer.

cpt25efd said:

I was offered a publishing contract by Moonshine Cove recently. Reading through the contract and comparing online samples and advice, I felt very uneasy.A friend (a published author) pointed out that although the company says that they pay for editing, cover, distribution, in section 3 of the contract it states:

"For all rights granted hereunder, the Publisher will pay the Author royalties on the basis of net revenues, defined as the total compensation received from sales of the Work to retailers less all book, editorial, production, distribution and accounting costs."

So once signed, I am agreeing that they will pay me after deducting the services which was their responsibility. This and a few other lines convinced me that I would see very little return from my 3 yr investment. I declined the offer.

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You are absolutely right on that. I was completely guilty of not doing research, and they provided nothing for my book that I couldn't have done myself. In addition, they actually made my book worse by heavy-handed (and incorrect) editing.

Also in the clause you cited above, note that it says "received from sales of the Work to retailers..." before it gets to "less all."

Moonshine Cove doesn't sell books to retailers. The ONLY retailer they consistently do business with is Amazon.com, which buys the books directly from the printer. There is legal wiggle room in there to make sure you never see a dime, which is what happened to me.

I personally know several hundred people who bought my book the first month it was out, but my "royalty" statement from Moonshine Cove stated there were six total sales of my book. And I have no way of disputing that without getting affidavits from each person who bought the book, and what a pain in the ass that would be. I have not received a single red penny from this fake publisher, nor do I ever expect to.

I asked them that, since they only showed six sales and the book had been out more than two years, would they relinquish publishing rights to me, and they said "we do not do that. If another publisher wants to buy the rights, we're open to discussions."

I chalk it all up to laziness on my part. I hate writing query letters, and I hate submitting them. But ultimately, companies like this are far, FAR worse than going through that fingernail-pulling process.

Well, I just got a contract offer from Moonshine Cove. I submitted before reading this thread but haven't signed yet. They're the first publisher I had sent to (mainly because I like the name). I'm pretty early in the process -- sent to two agents (one rejection) and since sending to Moonshine Cove, have sent to four other publishers, mainly small indies. Haven't heard from any of them, but it's been less than two weeks.

Any recent feedback on Moonshine Cove?

Thanks,
Davin.

Davin said:

Well, I just got a contract offer from Moonshine Cove. I submitted before reading this thread but haven't signed yet. They're the first publisher I had sent to (mainly because I like the name). I'm pretty early in the process -- sent to two agents (one rejection) and since sending to Moonshine Cove, have sent to four other publishers, mainly small indies. Haven't heard from any of them, but it's been less than two weeks.

Any recent feedback on Moonshine Cove?

Thanks,
Davin.

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They certainly haven't improved. Several recent copies of the book I received have pages in the wrong places. And the quality of the paper itself seems to have declined as well.

I'd avoid them like the plague.

Rats. Not what I wanted to hear....

Thanks, Leif. I went to your website and read your more "detailed" report as well.

Well, I decided to pass on the publishing contract. Never thought I'd get anyone interested, let alone on the first try! Then, pass on it......

I contacted a few of the MSC authors through their author websites. They had good things to sat about the publisher, so it was a tough decision for me. However, since this was my absolute first query, I decided to fish a while longer and see what turns up.

Thanks.

I had the misfortune of submitting my manuscript to moonshinecove, who accepted it and sent me a contract. Before I agree to anything I have a habit of doing my own due diligence. I contacted a few of the writers in their stable and was surprised to find out some of them have not received a penny in royalties!! Some have had their books on the market for a couple of years, too. When I got the "good news" and the contract, I was told that they (the powers that be) were happy to answer any questions I might have. After hearing back from other writers, I sat down and wrote my response email and asked some pertinent questions. Instead of answering those questions, they rescinded their off to publish. Whew! Dodged a bullet there!

What bothers me the most is that clearly they prey on writers and cheat them.

I'm disappointed this was a scam, but very thankful I did my homework and avoided becoming another one of their victims.