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Thread: [Publisher] C.P. Anthologies / Hance LLC

  1. #1
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    Question [Publisher] C.P. Anthologies / Hance LLC

    cc
    Last edited by TwentyFour; 07-28-2013 at 10:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Just to clarify for anyone who hasn't read the other threads on this subject, in March of 2011 a call was made for submissions to an anthology, by AW member CasperPearl (who joined AW on the day he started the thread calling for submissions).

    This request was made in AW's Paying Markets section: it was originally indicated that contributing writers would be payed under some sort of profit-share agreement, but the original post has now been edited to announce the start of a Kickstarter campaign to fund CasperPearl's self-publishing of the resulting anthology. CasperPearl has also started a thread in Announcements asking us to visit his Kickstarter page and contribute to his cause.

    The original thread in Paying Markets has now been closed, as no more submissions are required.

  3. #3
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    If they're planning to be a publisher, they're going to have to be a legal entity. (I could point you to sad stories of folks who didn't.) That they're ... under-capitalized .... seems to be screamingly self-evident right now.

    Tee shirts? Seriously?

    Also, posters. That's nice, but I don't see enough money in that breakdown to get bookstores to hang those posters.

    If they go through an job printer they can get more books printed offset at a lower cost than they can get POD. If they go POD, there's no way they're going to get bookstore presence, so it makes sense to use offset if that's the direction they're going.

  4. #4
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Agreed. But an offset run isn't enough to get that bookshop presence, although it is a step in the right direction.

    The amount being asked for on Kickstarter isn't going to be enough to establish them as a publisher. It might be enough to pay for their print-run and the T-shirts they're promising to their backers: but it won't cover editing or design costs or an effective marketing campaign. And with just one book to their credit, and no sales of that book to date, they're going to struggle to find a good distributor willing to take them on and get the anthology into bookshops.

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    What Are the Funds Going Towards?

    The funds raised through Kickstarter will be broken down accordingly:

    • $3,370 will go towards printing the books (500+), shipping and handling, and setting up expanded distribution on Amazon.
    • $750 will go toward promotional items (bookmarks, t-shirts and posters).
    • $130 will go toward setting up Hance LLC as a legal entity.

    If I’m able to raise money beyond $4,250, it will go towards more books! If I raise a ton, I’m hoping to invest in future installments of The Memory Eater.
    $4250 has been raised for this already?

    I guess I don't get it. 500 printed copies? Are there that many contributing authors (who I'm guessing are unknown/unpublished) to buy it? Family and friends? Wow.

    Good luck.

  6. #6
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    No, according to the link given in Announcements the Kickstarter campaign is nowhere near its target yet. So far just $531 has been raised out of a target amount of $4,250.

  7. #7
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyFour View Post
    Why should someone fundraise in order to pay for their LLC? Shouldn't that be made beforehand?
    One would have thought so. I'd also expect publication to have been set up before submissions were requested, although this isn't always the case. For the person behind the anthology to only now be seeking funding for its publication seems rather cart-before-the-horse to me. I'd be interested to find out more about his publishing experience. But as he's no longer asking for writers to contribute to the anthology I'm not sure that this is a big issue for our members now.

    BTW his wife is an editor, therefore Lulu or some other venue would be a great place for this as his editing will be done by his wife for free.
    Just because his wife is an editor (and is she? where has she worked? or is she just editing this anthology, with no prior experience?) doesn't mean she'll be working for free, nor does it mean that POD is therefore the best option for this anthology. There's a lot more to publishing than free editing and printing; and "free editing" doesn't logically lead to the conclusion of "POD instead of offset".

    I thought the LLC might be to cover any money the contributing authors ask for later on if the book sells. If he's buying five hundred copies of the book to begin with, what percentage would the authors receive of that, nothing?
    He's not planning on buying 500 copies, he's hoping to print a minimum of 500 copies. From the Kickstarter page:

    ē $3,370 will go towards printing the books (500+), shipping and handling, and setting up expanded distribution on Amazon.
    If he doesn't print any books no one can buy them, so there'll be no money for anyone.

    I don't know what percentage of the income earned from the sale of those 500 or more copies will go to the contributing authors, because I've not seen the contract between the authors and the publisher. Why do you assume that the publisher is going to stiff the authors?

    So in essence, if he self pubbed and they ask for profits, they would have to buy the book on the sites and he would get that money, then they would have to resell what they paid full price for.
    He's not going to self publish this book because it's not his work. Self-publishing can only be done by the author of the work.

    The authors can buy copies of the book if they like but why do you assume they'll then have to resell the books they paid full price for? Unless there's a seriously bad contract in action here they'll get copies at author discount; the book is, I assume, going to be priced at a level wherein the publisher makes a profit on each copy sold; and if you look back at the bit I quoted from Kickstarter, it will be available for sale on Amazon, which might generate a few more sales. I doubt it, but you never know. Again, you do seem determined to paint this publisher in the worst possible light. Despite my reservations about the professionalism of this particular publishing endeavour I see no evil intentions here.

    I think the authors should pull out, if it is legally possible and not allow this man to change the premise of the anthology after the book is complete.
    You seem very irked by this project, and you're making a lot of incorrect assumptions which don't actually follow from the information available. I do wonder why you're so keen to see it in a bad light.

    The anthology is already complete. No more writers are going to be asked to contribute to it. The writers who have already contributed to it are bound by their contracts, I assume, and I hear none of them complaining (although I do think this seems rather poorly thought out, and I'm not sure I'd want to be involved with it).

    What's up for discussion now is the Kickstarter funding. Publishing is an expensive business. A friend of mine who runs a small but successful publishing house put £100,000 of her own money into it when she started up, and saw little return on that money for a couple of years after. The amount being asked for in this instance is tiny if the person behind it really wants to do a good job on publishing and distributing this anthology. If he wants to go on to publish new anthologies then he's going to have to raise a lot more money if he wants to do the job properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    He's not going to self publish this book because it's not his work. Self-publishing can only be done by the author of the work.
    That's interesting to know. If you get writers to submit stories to an anthology you want to do, you can't self-publish it? I suppose this is off-topic, sorry.

    What's in the contract for contributing writers is what's in the contract, right? So you're saying whatever the kickstarter thing is, it has nothing to do with the contributing writers' contract? I'm asking because I see so many calls for stories for anthologies, which I avoid.

    Has this publishing company already been formed? Should this thread be under that name now? It seems like another writer is throwing their hat into the publishing ring? It's an LLC now isn't it?

  9. #9
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    A lot of the anthology calls AW gets are hobby anthologies. Someone thought it'd be neat to edit an anthology, so they do. They don't make any money and it won't be read by anyone who isn't in the anthology. They'll often mess up things like marketing and finances. It may fall apart before even being published. But it's not a scam either.

    This looks like an average hobby anthology. I don't see it as better or worse than usual, which is the implication in the opening post (it's not the first I've seen using kickstarter). The problems here are problems shared by other hobby anthologies.

    So though I think writers should be cautious of the "I thought it'd be neat... what do you mean 'business plan'?" approach, I don't see any advantage in having a separate thread for every hobby project. They usually burn out after/before the first book, so there's no next time. It's more of a general thing people should take into account when looking at anthology calls. A project may look fun, but if it suffers from bad planning, it'll turn out to be a headache instead.
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  10. #10
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    File this one under Undercapitalized Start-up. Of which we've seen plenty over the years.

    They seldom end well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polenth View Post
    A lot of the anthology calls AW gets are hobby anthologies. Someone thought it'd be neat to edit an anthology, so they do.
    Then who publishes it, if not self-published? In this case of Hance LLC, how was it going to be published if not by him/herself? When the call for submissions went out, who was going to publish it?

  12. #12
    Writer Beware's Faithful Igor Richard White's Avatar
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    Lilly,

    He's a publisher.

    He's publishing other people's works.

    It's not self-publishing unless you're publishing yourself.

    The other people in the anthology will be published by him, therefore he's a small press publisher, not a self-publisher.

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    Wow, I didnít know this conversation was taking place.

    One thing Iíd like to address is that, yes, TwentyFour did post on my blog, but his post said something to the extent of, ď$4,000, why donít you just publish with Lulu, are you pocketing the money?Ē so I deleted it.

    My plan when I put out the call for submissions was to create an entertaining bookósomething to stimulate conversations. So I went for it. Along the way as the book began to develop and more and more people signed on, I wanted us to work as a team, so I have since taken input from everyone involved.

    When the book was complete, we decided to take a shot at the bigger publishers out there. During the waiting period, a prominent member of the sci-fi writing community and fellow contributor suggested turning to Kickstarter to fund the project, so I decided to give it a try.

    With a collaborative work this big, to protect everyone involved, I had to register as an LLC. Fortunately, Iíve been able to do most of the work myself so far, but there are many overhead costs which I could have never imagined. I only had a quick glance at all of these comments, but someone nailed it best when they said a writer, me, wanted to pull a project together but neglected a proper business plan.

    I have always been very transparent on my blog, where I have posted updates about the anthologyís progress from its birth. The authors will split a majority of the profits (specified in their contracts), whereas the leftover profit will be funneled into inventory, advertising and future works.

    I wonít be able to answer everything Iíve come across in this thread, mainly because Iím traveling this weekend, starting tonight. So forgive this quickly assembled response. But if you have any questions and want me to answer them directly, feel free to email me at anthologies2011@gmail.com. Iíll gladly strike up a conversation with anyone interested, but expect my responses to be delayed until next week.

    I apologize if my post came across as spam or a quick swing to make a buck, for that is not how I wish to be portrayed. Iím simply trying to raise funds for a project I believe strongly in. Besides, if I wanted to make money, I would stop being a writerJ

    Have a happy Easter!
    Best,
    C. P.

  14. #14
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    So ... this is essentially a one-shot fanzine with extraordinary attention to detail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyFour View Post
    That is a lie and since you deleted it there is only he said/she said. I did not say anything about pocketing money on your blog. I would not want to damage my own or someone else's reputation to that extent. You just did not want to answer the question posed.

    I said "$4000 why not go with a Lulu.com it's free, why pay so much more?"

    It doesn't matter, the authors are signed, it's voluntary if people give you money, I just wish not to fund a project like this with so many flaws and that is my right. You don't have to answer anything I ask, it's pretty clear you didn't want to anyway.

    I have been involved in anthologies and I was paid upfront for the story. I was given free copies of the book along with discounts on orders to resell or give away at my discretion.

    As I said before, doesn't matter now and I only made the thread because someone else mentioned it before on the other topic. They can keep it going, delete it, lock it up and throw away the key, doesn't matter to me.

    This is your exact quote (I get emails sent every time someone posts a comment on my site):

    L. M. has left a new comment on your post "Purchase The Memory Eater Anthology":

    $4,250 for what Lulu can do for free? Is this for the book or for yourself?



    Care to explain why you left the "Is this for the book or for yourself?" part out of your last post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyFour View Post
    That is a far cry from pocketing the money quote you said I made, I simply asked what the money was for. There are a lot of overhead costs, you didn't wish to address anything and assumed I meant it as a hurtful comment. Had you read the other posts I made above, I simply asked why you were doing this after signing authors and putting them into contract. It doesn't matter however, it's over with now and the authors are already in contract. I just don't see the point in someone asking for money from people he should be paying, isn't that what the big idea is...Yog's law and all...Money flows to the author. BTW, I see you made it a point to address me, however a moderator above asked you a question and you ignored it. May I presume you saw his post? or the others above.
    The Kickstarter campaign clearly states that most of the funds are going to the writers, and Kickstarter itself is meant for the public to fund the project by basically preordering the book/other rewards. The only mod questions I saw were the ones questioning your hatred towards this project. Most of the other questions have been answered by other posters.

    Like I said in my original reply, if people have serious inquires, they can email me directly at anthologies2011@gmail.com, because I may not check these boards often. I'm very busy trying to meet the project goal and don't have time to waste on people who clearly have no interest in the book.

  17. #17
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperPearl View Post
    The Kickstarter campaign clearly states that most of the funds are going to the writers,

    No it doesn't. Your Kickstarter campaign page says this
    :

    What Are the Funds Going Towards? The funds raised through Kickstarter will be broken down accordingly:

    • $3,370 will go towards printing the books (500+), shipping and handling, and setting up expanded distribution on Amazon.
    • $750 will go toward promotional items (bookmarks, t-shirts and posters).
    • $130 will go toward setting up Hance LLC as a legal entity.

    If I’m able to raise money beyond $4,250, it will go towards more books! If I raise a ton, I’m hoping to invest in future installments of The Memory Eater.
    Where does it say there that any of the money raised is going to the writers?

    and Kickstarter itself is meant for the public to fund the project by basically preordering the book/other rewards.
    There's no need for anyone to take part in the Kickstarter campaign if all they want is a copy of the book prior to publication: they should be able to do that via your website, or via Amazon if it's listed there. You're asking for money for other stuff, and it's disingenuous of you to pretend otherwise.

    The only mod questions I saw were the ones questioning your hatred towards this project. Most of the other questions have been answered by other posters.
    I'm a mod, and I asked these questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    For the person behind the anthology to only now be seeking funding for its publication seems rather cart-before-the-horse to me. I'd be interested to find out more about his publishing experience ... Just because his wife is an editor (and is she? where has she worked? or is she just editing this anthology, with no prior experience?) doesn't mean she'll be working for free, nor does it mean that POD is therefore the best option for this anthology.
    James is also a mod here, and he asked this:

    Quote Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
    So ... this is essentially a one-shot fanzine with extraordinary attention to detail?
    As for your comment about "hatred", here's exactly what I wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    ... you do seem determined to paint this publisher in the worst possible light. Despite my reservations about the professionalism of this particular publishing endeavour I see no evil intentions here ... You seem very irked by this project, and you're making a lot of incorrect assumptions which don't actually follow from the information available. I do wonder why you're so keen to see it in a bad light.
    You'll note that I didn't use the word "hatred", nor any words which implied that. Let's not exaggerate, ok? It doesn't help anything.

    Like I said in my original reply, if people have serious inquires, they can email me directly at anthologies2011@gmail.com, because I may not check these boards often. I'm very busy trying to meet the project goal and don't have time to waste on people who clearly have no interest in the book.
    You can easily subscribe to this thread by clicking on the "Thread Tools" button at the top of the thread. That way you'll get an email alert whenever anyone comments in this thread, so you can be sure not to miss anyone's questions. And if you answer questions here, then you're less likely to have to repeat yourself if several people want to find out more about your anthology.

    It's clear that you're happy to use AW to get free publicity for your anthology, and to try to raise money for its publication. If you intended to participate in the AW community then it's only fair for you to be just as happy to try to help us by answering our questions here; if you didn't have any such intention then you're a spammer, and might well be treated as such. It's your choice.

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    I think I remember a writer acquaintance mentioning she'd submitted a story to this anthology, way back when... I saw the call for submission on many writers' sites last year, so now I'm curious about whatever happened to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CasperPearl View Post
    My plan when I put out the call for submissions was to create an entertaining bookósomething to stimulate conversations. So I went for it.

    Phase One: Originally, you were planning on going through CreateSpace, and the contributing authors would engage in profit sharing? "The profits will be split by the total number of published stories(less cover artist)/individual author's total number of published stories. The editor (Yes I have one) will most likely be counted as a published author, sharing in the profits as well."


    Quote Originally Posted by CasperPearl View Post
    When the book was complete, we decided to take a shot at the bigger publishers out there.
    "The anthology was pitched to select publishers with positive feedback, but ultimately, I decided to take advantage of the evolving book publishing landscape and retain control over the book publication and distribution by raising the funds to self-publish."

    Phase Two: The anthology was shopped to, and rejected by publishers.

    Quote Originally Posted by CasperPearl View Post
    A prominent member of the sci-fi writing community and fellow contributor suggested turning to Kickstarter to fund the project, so I decided to give it a try.

    Phase Three: Kickstarter!
    Have the authors' contracts been updated to reflect the moving goal posts? These stories have been tied up for quite some time now.

    Quote Originally Posted by CasperPearl View Post
    The authors will split a majority of the profits (specified in their contracts), whereas the leftover profit will be funneled into inventory, advertising and future works.

    At what point does profit become leftover profit? I don't get it. Do you mean sales profit? Or kickstarter profit? Is it fair for authors of this anthology to have their profits go to fund "future works" of yours? Unless kickstarter "funding" is for your publisher start-up, and not just the anthology?

    I, too, wonder why you just didn't go with lulu. What happens if you don't reach your kickstarter goal?

    Good luck.



  19. #19
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwentyFour View Post
    http://jdsawyer.net/2010/07/28/princ...thing-but-net/

    I found this very informative on profit sharing, has anyone else read it?
    It doesn't contain anything new or startling, and it's completely off-topic for this thread. Other than that, what of it?

    I have to ask, TwentyFour, why are your knickers in such a twist over this anthology?

  20. #20
    Writer Beware's Faithful Igor Richard White's Avatar
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    While I'm not sure what's going on re: the anthology, this does appear to be a rather he said/he said situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post

    No it doesn't. Your Kickstarter campaign page says this
    :

    Where does it say there that any of the money raised is going to the writers?

    There's no need for anyone to take part in the Kickstarter campaign if all they want is a copy of the book prior to publication: they should be able to do that via your website, or via Amazon if it's listed there. You're asking for money for other stuff, and it's disingenuous of you to pretend otherwise.

    I'm a mod, and I asked these questions:



    James is also a mod here, and he asked this:



    As for your comment about "hatred", here's exactly what I wrote:



    You'll note that I didn't use the word "hatred", nor any words which implied that. Let's not exaggerate, ok? It doesn't help anything.

    You can easily subscribe to this thread by clicking on the "Thread Tools" button at the top of the thread. That way you'll get an email alert whenever anyone comments in this thread, so you can be sure not to miss anyone's questions. And if you answer questions here, then you're less likely to have to repeat yourself if several people want to find out more about your anthology.

    It's clear that you're happy to use AW to get free publicity for your anthology, and to try to raise money for its publication. If you intended to participate in the AW community then it's only fair for you to be just as happy to try to help us by answering our questions here; if you didn't have any such intention then you're a spammer, and might well be treated as such. It's your choice.

    Right under the part where I outline the costs on Kickstarter is this, "The authors in The Memory Eater will split a majority of the total profits."

    Also, when I mentioned hatred, I was responding to Twentyfour, not you.

    I'm selling the book on Kickstarter for the same amount that I would sell it on Amazon and Lulu. The only difference is, shipping and handling is included, and by using Kickstarter, I'll have enough inventory to move books into store fronts.

    Yes, you can easily pump out a book and start selling it on Amazon and Lulu through POD within seconds, but I don't think people realize how doing this limits them. Where will your advertising come from? I'm going to put physical books in stores. Where does the money come from to pay for those books? I'm offering other Memory Eater products that are not only cool rewards for fans of the book, but they double as advertisements. Where does the money come from to pay for those?

    Through Kickstarter, the backers choose what they want. I'm not forcing anyone to buy a poster or a bookmark. I've put a lot of work into this campaign, and it benefits everyone involved. The backers are getting the book minus shipping and handling, the authors are making more because Amazon and Lulu aren't taking a large cut, and the physical book will be available for purchase in dozens of stores giving it a better chance at success.

    If you make and sell a book on Amazon/Lulu, don't you ask your friends and family and everyone you know to buy it? Well I'm doing that beforehand, but if the project reaches the goal on Kickstarter, I'll have cut a ton of costs and reached more of my target audience. This will ensure I'm paying the authors close to pro rates instead of pennies. But I guess I could go sell the books through POD with Amazon/Lulu and split the dollar-something profit per book between 50 people. "Yeah, Doug, your check for 5 cents is in the mail. Minus the stamp. Now you owe me."

  22. #22
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    I'd seen your original posting for kickstarted and it came off as odd to me... I have some questions, if you don't mind answering them:

    Quote Originally Posted by CasperPearl View Post
    Right under the part where I outline the costs on Kickstarter is this, "The authors in The Memory Eater will split a majority of the total profits."


    So when do these 'profits' happen? The kickstart funds are to print 500+ books (right?), then you intend to sell them (at wholesale prices?) to bookstores? Will the authors be paid out according to wholesale or retail prices? Is there a set percentage that goes to paying out artists vs "not majority"?

    How many total "author slots" do you have in this project. I know some authors have multiple stories (so one person may have two author slots) and the editor (your wife?) is getting one as well. Are there others?


    I'm selling the book on Kickstarter for the same amount that I would sell it on Amazon and Lulu. The only difference is, shipping and handling is included, and by using Kickstarter, I'll have enough inventory to move books into store fronts.


    Do you have a different kickstarter page? I see a donation level of $100 and $200 dollars, certainly you would not be selling these books at those rates.


    I'm offering other Memory Eater products that are not only cool rewards for fans of the book, but they double as advertisements. Where does the money come from to pay for those?


    Do the authors also split the profits on these add-on products?

    Then on your fundraising page, you have several pieces of art for sale at the $150 donation level, but say that half of that money will go to the artist (so, $75 to the artist and $75 to the project). Did you take these losses in account when you set this up? The numbers for how the money will be used total up to the $4250 amount requested, but clearly even if you raise the $4250, some of that money may be due to the artists for their original works.

    Your original idea seemed pretty simple and straight forward. But the kickstarter page makes it seem less clear. I think that is why there are so many questions.

  23. #23
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperPearl View Post
    Right under the part where I outline the costs on Kickstarter is this, "The authors in The Memory Eater will split a majority of the total profits."
    It does seem as though you're planning on using some of the money from your books sales twice: you've said that Kickstarter is going to fund the printing of the books by advance-selling of them; and you've said that sales of the books are going to provide your contributing authors with their share of the profits. Do you see why this is confusing?

    Also, when I mentioned hatred, I was responding to Twentyfour, not you.
    You're missing my point.

    You wrote to TwentyFour,

    Quote Originally Posted by CasperPearl View Post
    The only mod questions I saw were the ones questioning your hatred towards this project.
    Here's the comment in which I apparently "[questioned TwentyFour's] hatred towards this project":

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    You seem very irked by this project, and you're making a lot of incorrect assumptions which don't actually follow from the information available. I do wonder why you're so keen to see it in a bad light.
    I didn't suggest that anyone felt any hatred towards your anthology, and it's disingenuous of you to imply that I did. If you read back you'll notice that I was relatively protective towards you at the beginning of this conversation: I'm becoming less so now, in big part because of your misrepresentation of me. Please stop it now. Thank you.

    Yes, you can easily pump out a book and start selling it on Amazon and Lulu through POD within seconds, but I don't think people realize how doing this limits them.


    I do. I definitely do.

    Where will your advertising come from? I'm going to put physical books in stores.
    Have you found a distributor willing to take on your anthology? If so, which is it? Or are you planning on doing all the sales and distribution yourself? If so, this is a huge undertaking and one which most publishers (whether self-publishers or micropresses) struggle with. I hope you're assuming very low sales in your business plan: anthologies are notoriously poor sellers, even when they contain stories written by big names; and even when you do persuade book shops to carry your anthology they'll expect to take it on full SOR, which means that not only will you not get paid for the books up-front, you're likely to get a proportion of all of those books back in three months' time.

    The backers are getting the book minus shipping and handling, the authors are making more because Amazon and Lulu aren't taking a large cut, and the physical book will be available for purchase in dozens of stores giving it a better chance at success.
    The bookshops will expect a large cut, though, so do please be prepared. And dozens of bookshops? Really? Have you ever sold books into bookshops before? I hope you manage this, but I've seen so many people try this before and fail that I am feeing genuinely concerned.

    If you make and sell a book on Amazon/Lulu, don't you ask your friends and family and everyone you know to buy it?
    No, I don't. I find it embarrassing and unethical. Let them buy the books if they want, but not because I've put them under pressure to do so.

    I wish you well, I really do. But I see several holes in your plan and that concerns me.

  24. #24
    figuring it all out
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fins Left View Post
    I'd seen your original posting for kickstarted and it came off as odd to me... I have some questions, if you don't mind answering them:

    [/FONT][/COLOR]

    So when do these 'profits' happen? The kickstart funds are to print 500+ books (right?), then you intend to sell them (at wholesale prices?) to bookstores? Will the authors be paid out according to wholesale or retail prices? Is there a set percentage that goes to paying out artists vs "not majority"?

    How many total "author slots" do you have in this project. I know some authors have multiple stories (so one person may have two author slots) and the editor (your wife?) is getting one as well. Are there others?




    Do you have a different kickstarter page? I see a donation level of $100 and $200 dollars, certainly you would not be selling these books at those rates.




    Do the authors also split the profits on these add-on products?

    Then on your fundraising page, you have several pieces of art for sale at the $150 donation level, but say that half of that money will go to the artist (so, $75 to the artist and $75 to the project). Did you take these losses in account when you set this up? The numbers for how the money will be used total up to the $4250 amount requested, but clearly even if you raise the $4250, some of that money may be due to the artists for their original works.

    Your original idea seemed pretty simple and straight forward. But the kickstarter page makes it seem less clear. I think that is why there are so many questions.
    The idea was simple at first, as I did plan on self-publishing the book, like many here suggested, through Amazon or Lulu. But as I did more research, buying in bulk became the clear winner. Especially since I've learned several other publisher business models from anthologies I was part of. I haven't stuck with my original plan because it's like I'm shopping for an item and found a coupon for it cheaper at a different store, that's all.

    There are no contributor slots in the makeup of my payment plan. My wife isn't being paid for editing the stories. I'm not being paid for creating the cover or editing or anything else. The profits are being split between the 24 authors who wrote the 27 stories according to their total number of stories. And in the contracts, which the authors signed after reviewing the Kickstarter campaign, I've provided them with concrete percentages.

    With Kickstarter, you offer unique rewards in order to try and hit your goal. The $100 and $200 rewards are provided in case people want them, which in turn, helps the campaign reach the goal faster. Like I mentioned, no one has to purchase those rewards. The book is still available for $15. It's like going on Amazon and seeing the book for $15, but you can also add an Ebook reader for $150 more. They are simply options which don't change the value of the actual book.

    I did take into account the $75 profit loss with the original art on Kickstarter. It does, when you try and disect it, seem complicated, and it is, mainly because the rewards, artists and authors all have to be taken into account while also factoring in the overhead costs. The $4250 goal breakdown is my estimate at the beginning of this campaign. Do I want to print 1,000 books? I sure do. But if backers decide they'd rather purchase other rewards, I'll be printing the bare minimum of 500 books. If the majority of people only buy books, I will use the money to buy mostly books and cut promotional rewards.

    From the start of this project, Iíve had to adapt according to what Iíve had to work with. I didnít have the funds to professionally advertise for the call of submissions or an actual website. Iíve built this thing from the ground up using hard work and determination, and thatís basically how I plan to run the business from here on out.

    I hope I cleared up some of your questions, because Iím just trying to be honest here.

    Best,
    C. P.

  25. #25
    figuring it all out
    Join Date
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    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    It does seem as though you're planning on using some of the money from your books sales twice: you've said that Kickstarter is going to fund the printing of the books by advance-selling of them; and you've said that sales of the books are going to provide your contributing authors with their share of the profits. Do you see why this is confusing?



    You're missing my point.

    You wrote to TwentyFour,



    Here's the comment in which I apparently "[questioned TwentyFour's] hatred towards this project":



    I didn't suggest that anyone felt any hatred towards your anthology, and it's disingenuous of you to imply that I did. If you read back you'll notice that I was relatively protective towards you at the beginning of this conversation: I'm becoming less so now, in big part because of your misrepresentation of me. Please stop it now. Thank you.



    I do. I definitely do.



    Have you found a distributor willing to take on your anthology? If so, which is it? Or are you planning on doing all the sales and distribution yourself? If so, this is a huge undertaking and one which most publishers (whether self-publishers or micropresses) struggle with. I hope you're assuming very low sales in your business plan: anthologies are notoriously poor sellers, even when they contain stories written by big names; and even when you do persuade book shops to carry your anthology they'll expect to take it on full SOR, which means that not only will you not get paid for the books up-front, you're likely to get a proportion of all of those books back in three months' time.



    The bookshops will expect a large cut, though, so do please be prepared. And dozens of bookshops? Really? Have you ever sold books into bookshops before? I hope you manage this, but I've seen so many people try this before and fail that I am feeing genuinely concerned.



    No, I don't. I find it embarrassing and unethical. Let them buy the books if they want, but not because I've put them under pressure to do so.

    I wish you well, I really do. But I see several holes in your plan and that concerns me.

    With the option to buy in bulk and setting the same retail price as I would on Amazon or Lulu of $15, I've cut out enough costs where the authors' profits take the place of Amazon/Lulu's take. I'm also cutting a lot of the costs by doing a bulk of the work for free instead out outsourcing it.

    I see what you meant about the hatred comment, and I apologize for my poor-choice of words, but at the time, I couldn't come up with the word I was looking for.

    There are stores in Columbus, Ohio (where I currently reside), which will stock the anthology for free. Local book stores and businesses like Cup O' Joes. They like to support local talent, as I'm sure is the case with most cities. And I'm lucky in the fact that my wife previously worked for the Ohio Chamber of Commerce, my mother is currently in advertising, I worked for the local news, and I have connections to other media outlets. The Kickstarter campaign is merely meant to provide me with the product to be able to utilize these connections.

    Most of what I'm doing is a lot like extreme couponing. Someone has to do a lot of work to save a lot of money, but it's there for the taking, you just have to be smart with what you're provided.

    I'm mainly trying to use what I have to get the anthology read while also providing non-laughable payments to the authors. For instance, the first anthology I was ever part of netted me 34 cents. Needless to say, I didn't hit the $20 payout mark, and I never will. My passion is writing and creating art, and that's what I've done here. As a publisher, I have to make decisions in the best interest of the book and stick with them, and that's what I'm doing.

    I hope I've cleared up some questions and that the people who are genuinely interested in the book decide to support the project.

    Best,
    C. P.

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