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The only difference as I see it, is that younger men these days who engage in that sort of behaviour embody the spirit of the old-fashioned views - the judgement of others, the entitlement, the rejection of difference - but without the veneer of manners. And also, notably, without general social approval of their attitudes.
*I'm guessing you're referring to the man-children of places like 4chan, with their entitlement issues and constant use of sexual, racial and homophobic slurs?
Of course, man-child places like 4chan also apply, but it's not like that sort of behavior is confined to festering pockets of the internet. The absence of the veneer of manners, in particular, carries over into real life. I know far too many guys who refer to "bitches" unthinkingly in casual conversation ("I was at McDonalds earlier and there was gorgeous bitch in line in front of me" -- actual quote from an asshole) like they're little boys trying to impress their buddies by overusing saying a naughty word. Hell, I went through a similar phase once. Then I turned 13. The guys I'm talking about are grown men with mortgages.
Regarding the veneer of manners, well, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If you make yourself behave like a reasonably decent person in polite company, you might find it carrying over into your private life.
But beyond that, what I'm trying to say is that there's little reason for my generation to have so many men still clinging to brutish "old-fashioned views." I can't emphasize it enough that genuine ignorance is no excuse, but it was a reality. Example: A man who thought a woman couldn't be an effective employee, much less manager, in 1940 had very possibly never experienced being around a woman in the workplace. A guy in 2012 has likely spent his entire working life surrounded by women in the workplace. So if you're living in the 21st century and you're still resentful of your female boss solely because she is female, and all you can think to do is call her a bitch under your breath every time you disagree with her, then you're pretty much making a deliberate effort to be an immature brat in a grown man's body, and you need to grow the eff up.
I'd say that's one difference between then and now, and I think it's a valid criticism.
In an attempt to prove my masculinity I went down to a local dodo disco with a battle axe. A lycra wearing female dodo kicked my ass.
Testing Testing Testing
I think that is more an issue with entitlement than it is simple maturity. Entitlement issues are not solved with simple maturity, even if they are solved by acquiring a little wisdom and awareness of one's surroundings.
One can be mature yet still be a fool.
Eh. I guess we're thinking of different things. I'm struggling to think of an example foolish behavior ("foolish" in the context of this discussion) that is also emotionally mature behavior.
Ah, I get what you mean more, now.
And aye, I don't doubt the 4chan-dwelling man-children carry their crap over into the real world as well, but out here amongst the humans their antics are much less accepted.
Maturity itself may be a more difficult thing to attain these days, because I've found most people don't start maturing until they start experiencing real life. With a bad (albeit improving) job market, degrees becoming essential for jobs that don't need them making it necessary for people to delay entering the job-market full time, the resulting need for people to remain living with their parents long past the time when their parent's generation would already have had their first child... You end up with people trapped in a sort of perpetual childhood, where they still live under their parents' roof. Even those of us who've moved away like me, are often still dependent on occasional financial help from family.
When I think that my mum was a widow with a 3-year-old child and a mortgage at my age, and here I am unable to afford to buy my own nieces birthday presents, it's shaming. Even though I know my financial issues aren't the fault of personal bad budgeting or irresponsible spending or laziness.
I'm in my late twenties, and I can see a glaring difference in maturity, real-world knowledge and general understanding of How Life Works between my friends who have financial independence and those who don't. But I know plenty of immature people who aren't dickheads, and plenty of otherwise mature people who act like the world owes them.
Originally Posted by Robert A. Heinlein
I find it worthy of note that the Heinlein quote was used in reference to "a guy" not being able to fix a bicycle flat, when the quote starts "A human being..." -- and includes both cooking and diaper-changing among the skillset.
I wrote a blog.Between a good and a bad economist this constitutes the whole difference - the one takes account of the visible effect;
the other takes account both of the effects which are seen, and also of those which it is necessary to foresee. ~Frederic BastiatEconomics puts parameters on people’s utopias. ~Peter BoettkeThe 'social contract' is to the politician what 'original sin' is to the priest. ~DonThe vision of the helpful and protective state is the most pervasive and counter-productive ideology in the world today. ~Don
I tend to blame the Feds for Don, actually.If they'd get it right, we wouldn't need Don pointing out that they'd gotten it wrong.~ Medievalist
What you say is true of most jobs.
Yes, it's good to have broad skills, but the denigration of specialization is patently stupid. We only have the technology that we do today because of specialization. I'd think a science fiction writer would be able to appreciate that, but I support not.
It's good to be a well rounded person, but specialization has its use too. Surgeons are pretty specialized. Particle physics is pretty specialized. Hell, writing itself is a specialization of itself.
I think the important is to be neither extreme, but rather strike for the middle path. Being a meh of all trades can be just as useless as being a hyper-specialized ant-man.
Unless you had the power to lift ten times your own body weight. Then you might as well cut the crap and become a superhero.
The whole idea of the Liberal Arts Education was to have a good grounding in everything and then take off into a specialization. Neither to be lacking in the specialized, nor confined to it.
As to planning an invasion, it just says to plan, not to have carried out. Since everything is a simulation until things are actually done, then simulations count, ergo table top Fantasy War Games and board games count. So under those rules, yes I have planned invasions. Since only very few will ever actually be a Field Marshall, I think that counts. However since dirty diapers do not require a special appointment, only the real ones count, no simulations there, same goes for butchering a hog.
As I gradually turn into my dad, I can understand why some people are frightened to see the changes in men, women and society. That's been happening since before Aristotle's time.
It's time to use the big hammer
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But then my friend Jay used a drop pod to put a squad of sternguard Space Marines in my flanks and shot up my boyz! My Waaagh was short lived and very sad.
Since these were space orks, does this make me at least part Fungus in Heinlein's eyes?
I just finished single handedly destroying a sentient alien race of supermachines a few weeks ago, and it was a *chore* to do so. Does that count toward my masculinity? I've also killed just about anything that walks, talks or crawls in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and in a politically unstable northern province that needed a new king after the last High King was killed by a rebel faction leader. It's sweaty work!