How to promote your book like an intelligent human being and not an SEO Dweeb

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andiwrite

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Hey guys, I have a question about something that's in the first post of this thread:

You can include telling pullquotes and link to the full review. You do NOT copy a review without permission, and you always link back to the source.

The "do NOT copy" without permission part ... Did this mean the full review? It's fine to use quotes from the review without permission as long as I link back to the blog it was posted on, correct?

I'm trying to figure out how to make better use of these good reviews I have. Since they're not on Amazon, I want to put them where someone will hopefully see them. I was planning on putting them on the "about" page of my website (where there's also a book link, as outlined in post one) and also on the sidebar, beneath another link/image of my book. I just want to make sure this is a good idea.
 

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Hey guys, I have a question about something that's in the first post of this thread:



The "do NOT copy" without permission part ... Did this mean the full review? It's fine to use quotes from the review without permission as long as I link back to the blog it was posted on, correct?

I'm trying to figure out how to make better use of these good reviews I have. Since they're not on Amazon, I want to put them where someone will hopefully see them. I was planning on putting them on the "about" page of my website (where there's also a book link, as outlined in post one) and also on the sidebar, beneath another link/image of my book. I just want to make sure this is a good idea.

Short quotations from reviews are generally fine; make sure you attribute them with a name (site/publication, author etc. ) and a link.

What I would do if you want more than say 40 words or so in a block quote is write the reviewer, ask for permission, and offer to include their copyright declaration and a link back.

It makes reviewers happy, it's courteous, and you've got a contact for soliciting reviews for your next book.
 

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I'm exceedingly dubious about paying for ads.

As a reader and buyer of books, have you ever bought a book by an unknown author because of an ad?

Yeah, me neither.
 

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I'm exceedingly dubious about paying for ads.

As a reader and buyer of books, have you ever bought a book by an unknown author because of an ad?

Yeah, me neither.
Most books I see advertised, are about how to lose 50 pounds in 10 days or how to make anyone fall in love with you with 4 simple words. That somehow manage to fill a book. Worth $30. Linking to sites with neverending videos you can't pause.

Oh hell to the no.
 

andiwrite

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I'm exceedingly dubious about paying for ads.

As a reader and buyer of books, have you ever bought a book by an unknown author because of an ad?

Yeah, me neither.

I disagree. I have purchased books from unknown authors after seeing their ad many times. For me, all it takes is an enticing cover, and they've at least got me reading the summary if not buying the book.

I have no idea if this happens often enough to make it worth it for the author to buy ads, but it DOES happen. I keep seeing people say it doesn't, and that's wrong. Maybe I'm just highly susceptible to book ads. :) But I can't be the only one!
 

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I disagree. I have purchased books from unknown authors after seeing their ad many times. For me, all it takes is an enticing cover, and they've at least got me reading the summary if not buying the book.

I have no idea if this happens often enough to make it worth it for the author to buy ads, but it DOES happen. I keep seeing people say it doesn't, and that's wrong. Maybe I'm just highly susceptible to book ads. :) But I can't be the only one!

Why not post a poll in Round Table about buying books based on ads?

I'd think a lot of authors might be interested.

Mostly I buy books based on having read a previous book, or because someone I trust recc'd the book or author (that can be a personal friend, a publishing colleague not involved with the book/author, a trusted reviewer, or a librarian / bookseller)
 

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Regarding buying ads—I am not someone who buys books from an author I am not familiar with because of an ad.

If you do buy books from new authors because of ads, think about what kind of ad appeals to you enough to fork over money.

Now, I have had many people buy many books by other people because of my reviews.

And I've had people buy my books many times because of thing I wrote that weren't about my books at all.

And I've bought books by authors I don't know because they wrote smart, interesting things that weren't about their books.

And that includes a lot of authors who are AW posters/members.
 

andiwrite

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And I've had people buy my books many times because of thing I wrote that weren't about my books at all.

How did you know? They told you?

I've been running Facebook ads a few weeks now. It's basically impossible for me to say how useful they are now, as I don't have access to my sales information. I will say that my Amazon ranking in Australia improved a lot during the first ad I ran, though.
 

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Long thread I've marked to read. Thanks in advance to all who've posted info. I'm finalizing a couple of print books on CreateSpace, and now I'll need to do something in the way of promotion. Based on the original post I'm sure I'll get some good ideas here.
 

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Vickie Stringer pretty much invented the African American Urban Fiction romance genre. Nobody wanted to publish her first book, so she self published. She sold her first copies by hand, going into African American hair salons all over her area, letting people rad a chapter or two and paying whatever they felt like it was worth. The hairdressers would tell their clients all about the books, and then give the clients the contact information of Stringer so that they could get a copy. She did a lot of driving and footwork. She owns at least two publish companies that she started herself. She's amazing. Her book on self publishing and self promotion is called, "How to Succeed in the Publishing Game. I'm not a fan of urban fiction, but this is one if the best books about self promotion I've ever read.


The Internet is an awesome platform to start with, but I wouldn't just promote online. For over ten years, I worked in bookstores. When I worked for an I dependent, we were constantly getting calls from local authors, self published or small press authors or "midlist" authors from the big publishing houses. One of these authors was Barbara Kingsolver. She made calls to Borders and Barnes and Nobles all over the Southeastern US region. They all turned her down, but the local bookstores picked her up and let her host signings, book talks, writers workshops -- whatever. She's a big name now, and last I heard, she refuses to do any events for chain stores, no matter how much they offer.

I have a friend who is a published YA mystery, supernatural writer. She's won some awards, and she's published by a big house, but she's still firmly a midlist author. She wasn't nearly a big enough name to get signings and events in big bookstores across the country. So she contacted a few other writers in her genre who were in the same boat. Together, they made a book tour in several States, doing panel talks about writing and creativity. It got her good exposure.

When I worked at the libraries and public schools as a media specialist, I was frequently fielding calls from children's book authors who wanted to host storytelling, writer's workshop or other events at the school. I took several up on their offers.

I am a presenter at gaming and sci fi conventions. I focus on education mostly, but there are oodles if authors who go around the country to all of these events all year long. They do big cons like GenCon and little tiny local conventions in small towns. They usually give writing advice. Sometimes they offer to critique the work of aspiring authors. They talk about how to get published or how to do book promotions. They get opportunity to meet other authors in the field and network. Sometimes a big name drops in to visit or give a talk. As a presenter, if you behave and the big name guys aren't jerks, they will treat you like a fellow writer instead of a fan. Sometimes they may ask for a copy of your book. I know newbie authors who got big name authors to recommend their books on the big authors own blog. You also get free entry into the conventions and you can wander around wherever you like when you aren't speaking. It's pretty sweet. Its my personal favorite haunt.

It takes time and money. But the payoff is pretty good. Also, check out Kickstarter. People are getting their tours and promotional costs funded. Of course, many people have dud projects because they don't know how to promote their Kickstarter project. Personally, I'm going to try to get published by this small local house I found. They get the funds to publish your book on Kickstarter and they handle the promotion side of that. They also handle contacting bookstores and other markets for you, but I'd still suggest pulling your own hustle at the same time.


Your online presence should be one of many promotional tools in your box. The more tools you use, the more you get your name out there.
 

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There are many, many different types of people on twitter (other than celebrities and writers). It all depends on what you've listed as your interests. I've been followed by celebrities because I followed someone they followed. I've been followed by youtubers because I mentioned my web channel and my desire to eventually have my own gaming channel. I've been followed by Republicans because I supported the party. Of course, there's the slew of writers. I have little known ghost hunter groups follow me because I commented on Ghost Adventures. If all you follow are celebrities and writers, those are the people who will follow you. I will admit, though, that's the majority of follows.
 

Perks

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We may have talked about this before in here, but if I've missed it, I apologize. My rant is pretty basic - Don't be an asshole on social media. Don't think other writers don't notice if you are "friending" them to tap their followers for an opportunity to pitch your own stuff.

Not cool.

(And if social media shenanigans would be better in another thread, tell me true and I'll move this.)


Something obnoxious has been happening more and more. I mainly use Facebook and Twitter for social media. On Facebook, unless a profile is obviously bullshit, I'll accept most friend requests. And what I get is a lot of writers, which is generally swell. But what's happening with greater frequency is that a certain percentage of my new "friends" leap immediately to posting links to their books and author pages on my timeline.

Delete and unfriend.

It is ballsy. And it's weird. Don't post advertisements for your books, websites, and pages on other writers' social media feeds. You look like a tool. They're going to delete you. You're not going to sell any books through sheer audacity, but you will get a reputation.

What blows my mind is that some people can't figure out what social media is for and what constitutes marketing and publicity. If you watch respected and successful authors out here in cyberspace, none of them act like that. It's a lesson. Duh.

I find that you can't trust people who don't get this to be good writers. It's like some bizarre lack of empathy. And if you're going to invent imaginary people, you've got nothing to build them from if you aren't adept with empathy.

ETA - Is some entity advising new writers to do this? Or is this some sort of individual doofus "discovery" by people just scrapping around for every little imaginary advantage?
 
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We may have talked about this before in here, but if I've missed it, I apologize. My rant is pretty basic - Don't be an asshole on social media. Don't think other writers don't notice if you are "friending" them to tap their followers for an opportunity to pitch your own stuff.

Not cool.

It's repulsive.

(And if social media shenanigans would be better in another thread, tell me true and I'll move this.)

This is the perfect place, and you've said it really well. Emphasis mine:


Something obnoxious has been happening more and more. I mainly use Facebook and Twitter for social media. On Facebook, unless a profile is obviously bullshit, I'll accept most friend requests. And what I get is a lot of writers, which is generally swell. But what's happening with greater frequency is that a certain percentage of my new "friends" leap immediately to posting links to their books and author pages on my timeline.

Delete and unfriend.

It is ballsy. And it's weird. Don't post advertisements for your books, websites, and pages on other writers' social media feeds. You look like a tool. They're going to delete you. You're not going to sell any books through sheer audacity, but you will get a reputation.

What blows my mind is that some people can't figure out what social media is for and what constitutes marketing and publicity. If you watch respected and successful authors out here in cyberspace, none of them act like that. It's a lesson. Duh.

I find that you can't trust people who don't get this to be good writers. It's like some bizarre lack of empathy. And if you're going to invent imaginary people, you've got nothing to build them from if you aren't adept with empathy.

ETA - Is some entity advising new writers to do this? Or is this some sort of individual doofus "discovery" by people just scrapping around for every little imaginary advantage?

Yeah, there are quite a few "experts" telling newbie writers to pimp their books.

And pimp is exactly the word to use; these writers are treating their books like a commodity, like all books are the same. It's as if to them, it's perfectly reasonable to think "If you have ever bought a book, you should buy my book."

It's obnoxious.

This kind of thing and bad SEO advice are the two reasons I started this thread, and then I continued it because of badly behaving authors, you know, the ones who think sending email threatening to kill you, or leaving a message on a Facebook page that they hope you die of cancer is "marketing advice."

For my part, as a voracious reader, as someone who reviews books and runs book review sites, book pimping makes me remember you, and not in a good way.

Don't do it.

Be like Perks. Post about writing. Post about the deer outside your office window (and make us all jealous). Post about other people's books that you read (and liked!—good books are much harder to find than bad books).

I discovered Elizabeth Bear's books years ago, when she'd just published her first, because she wrote smart interesting things about other people's books on her Live Journal.

I think I have every book she's published, except the last Karen Memory which I read as an ARC and want a hardcover copy of . . .
 

ElaineA

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I'm such a social media mole that I went a long time on Twitter before anyone I didn't know followed me. Now it's happening almost daily, and almost all writers I don't know. I don't automatically follow back so I don't have to be bothered with most of them, but recently I was followed by someone I thought might be and AWer. (I do try to follow people from here.) But this person, as soon as I followed, sent me a DM--A DM!--telling me to go to Kindle Scout (with link) and nominate her book!!! :Wha: It was a first for me, and incredibly invasive. And fruitless. If I'd have been inclined to take a peek at the book just because Support Your Fellow AWers, that would have slammed the door on that. As it was, I wasn't inclined. I've muted her so I don't get her daily Scout requests in my feed, and when I do a clean up of my Follows, she'll be unfollowed.

So yeah, that kind of aggressive use of social media Does. Not. Work. No matter who is telling users it does. At best you will be ignored or lost in a feed; at worst, you will engender disdain. Not good for a writer, either way.
 

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Ugh. Auto-DMing and haranguing readers to review your books deserve their own posts.

I'm talking about this on Facebook today and a friend brought up the review-pleading issue. Here's what I have to say there on it, if it's worth adding it into your thoughts on these practices -

The writer/reader transaction is simple - the writer writes, the reader reads. That's it. Neither owes the other anything beyond it. (And you can refine the concept of "owe" to be realistic and flexible in even this.) I think it's wrong to wheedle readers, however kindly, to leave reviews for your work.

The only thing I've ever seen on social media about this that didn't rub me the wrong way was a generic shout out to all people to consider leaving good feedback online for anything they've loved - for the benefit of both the producer and the consumer.

Yelp a great meal, whydontcha? Leave a handful of stars on a retail site for a good video game, a fine artisanal mouthwash, or a serum that left your hair so fragrant and shiny that you met the love of your life due to the wake of wonderfulness you dragged behind you from the application of that product.

And by all means, if you enjoyed a book *AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU FEEL LIKE DOING IT* remember that it's helpful to writers to have good reviews online at Goodreads or the online book retailers.

On the flip side, I also happen to think it's perfectly fine to bitch and moan online if you didn't like something, too. Although I tend to save my typing for things I liked over things that I didn't.
 
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So yeah, that kind of aggressive use of social media Does. Not. Work. No matter who is telling users it does. At best you will be ignored or lost in a feed; at worst, you will engender disdain. Not good for a writer, either way.

Oh I hate it when people do that to me. I've started pushing back, passive-aggressively tweeting "don't do this people" when it happens.

I try to keep an up-to-date list of AW-ers on Twitter here.

People should feel free to PM me here or on Twitter to let me know they're there.
 

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The writer/reader transaction is simple - the writer writes, the reader reads. That's it. Neither owes the other anything beyond it. (And you can refine the concept of "owe" to be realistic and flexible in even this.) I think it's wrong to wheedle readers, however kindly, to leave reviews for your work.

Yes, this, absolutely.

The only thing I've ever seen on social media about this that didn't rub me the wrong way was a generic shout out to all people to consider leaving good feedback online for anything they've loved - for the benefit of both the producer and the consumer.

Yelp a great meal, whydontcha? Leave a handful of stars on a retail site for a good video game, a fine artisanal mouthwash, or a serum that left your hair so fragrant and shiny that you met the love of your life due to the wake of wonderfulness you dragged behind you from the application of that product.

And by all means, if you enjoyed a book *AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU FEEL LIKE DOING IT* remember that it's helpful to writers to have good reviews online at Goodreads or the online book retailers.

Yes. I mostly only point at things I like, because there's so much not-so-great out there at present that I think surfacing the good stuff is really helpful.

On the flip side, I also happen to think it's perfectly fine to bitch and moan online if you didn't like something, too. Although I tend to save my typing for things I liked over things that I didn't.

I do too. I try hard not to be mean-spirited, but I confess that shoddy scholarship gets my dander up in record time.
 

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I've been on twitter since last summer. @WriterDavidH I've never experienced such a DM. Hmmm, I wonder why. I follow back writers who follow me, usually...but I rarely search for writers to follow. Maybe that's why.

ETA: Wait, I might have been. I remember vaguely being DM'd about buying someone's book. It's weird, I don't really remember which one did that.
 
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Maggie Maxwell

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I've been on twitter since last summer. @WriterDavidH I've never experienced such a DM. Hmmm, I wonder why. I follow back writers who follow me, usually...but I rarely search for writers to follow. Maybe that's why.

ETA: Wait, I might have been. I remember vaguely being DM'd about buying someone's book. It's weird, I don't really remember which one did that.

Until recently, I was a habitual "follow-back-er" if the other person was a writer. I've gotten TONS of those DMs. They're just automatic "hey, look at my book/site!" things. The thing is, because SO MANY people do it, I just roll by eyes and ignore them. A non-personalized DM and no chatting before will never make me click a link from you. Ever.

I recently realized that a ton of writers who follow me first don't ever actually post. They just repin and post selling their books. Nothing about day-to-day stuff. I've started to look at people's tweets before following back because I'm sick of the bad marketing attempts filling up my feed.
 

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I recently realized that a ton of writers who follow me first don't ever actually post. They just repin and post selling their books. Nothing about day-to-day stuff. I've started to look at people's tweets before following back because I'm sick of the bad marketing attempts filling up my feed.

Yep.

This is exactly what I am referring to when I talk about engaging, about participating in the conversation.

Don't just pimp your book; that's obnoxious and gets you ignored, or worse.
 

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I'm such a social media mole that I went a long time on Twitter before anyone I didn't know followed me. Now it's happening almost daily, and almost all writers I don't know. I don't automatically follow back so I don't have to be bothered with most of them, but recently I was followed by someone I thought might be and AWer. (I do try to follow people from here.) But this person, as soon as I followed, sent me a DM--A DM!--telling me to go to Kindle Scout (with link) and nominate her book!!! :Wha: It was a first for me, and incredibly invasive. And fruitless. If I'd have been inclined to take a peek at the book just because Support Your Fellow AWers, that would have slammed the door on that. As it was, I wasn't inclined. I've muted her so I don't get her daily Scout requests in my feed, and when I do a clean up of my Follows, she'll be unfollowed.

So yeah, that kind of aggressive use of social media Does. Not. Work. No matter who is telling users it does. At best you will be ignored or lost in a feed; at worst, you will engender disdain. Not good for a writer, either way.

It's gotten worse lately with the auto DMs. Just yesterday I followed a writer back, and when I did, I immediately received a DM asking me to go buy her book! I then unfollowed her. Such cluelessness!

:Soapbox:
 

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I had a writer follow me om twitter and start some one the surface interactions with me, which was fine, until he started begging for me to followback. When I said I didn't autofollow (and looking at the writer's stream, he didn't have much in common with me, so no reason for me to follow), he begged again.

Which made me block him. Because, creepy.
 

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I had a writer follow me om twitter and start some one the surface interactions with me, which was fine, until he started begging for me to followback. When I said I didn't autofollow (and looking at the writer's stream, he didn't have much in common with me, so no reason for me to follow), he begged again.

Which made me block him. Because, creepy.
You spelled "pathetic" wrong.
 
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