How to promote your book like an intelligent human being and not an SEO Dweeb

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Threak 17

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Great thread. Wonderful advice. Just getting into promoting my stuff and this is just what the doctor ordered.
 

AnthonyJones

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Glad I found this thread Yeah, at first, I thought key to promoting was always mentioning the book and how anybody can buy it. Thankfully, I learned a while ago that when authors do this, they just sound like an annoying saleman going from door to door.

I just comment on blogs, having a genuine conversation with the blogger. So I just act like a normal human being.
 

Lizzie7800

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I'm glad I found this. I have so much to learn, it's overwhelming! Definitely will refer back to this.
 

Edita A Petrick

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You've self-published a book that you are proud of, or your publisher is a small indie press without a sales staff or marketing department.

You know that a lot of people buy books and review books and talk about books online, and you want to participate in the conversation, and maybe, sell some books.

I know this advice is nearly 3 years old and I'm just getting around to reading it but having read it, I'm kind of wondering if it all has merit - or not.

Parts of this are practical advice, parts are humble brag and parts are just...well, not realistic. The bottom line is that the day has 24 hours. That part will never change. Not in our lifetime, anyway. Most of the writers hold a full time job. So that takes 8 hours out of the day, 9 if there is a metropolitan commute, then there is family - that takes about 4-5 hours out of the day, and there is a biological requirement of 6-7 hours for sleeping. That, in essence, leaves precious few hours for writing and promoting.

My point is this: If I'm to read any blog that allows promotion I will be doing promotion, not 'chatting-up' and providing meaningful input. Not establishing blog-human-social connection. There is hardly any time to cook, clean, walk pets, tutor children, do car repairs, do food shopping, take care of aging parents, and such mundane living things, much less time to socialize on blogs to parade a civil presence. Bottom line is if the blog allows promotion, then that's what it will be used for. Otherwise, the writer has no use for it and better move on to the blog and review site that can further his promotion. Because, as you so astutely pointed out, even the authors who are signed up by legitimate press, don't get any promo or marketing support from their publishers. Just my writer-living experience.
 

Filigree

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Because, as you so astutely pointed out, even the authors who are signed up by legitimate press, don't get any promo or marketing support from their publishers. Just my writer-living experience.

'Any'? That really depends on the publisher one picks. That claim is the usual excuse very small publishers use for not doing any - or at least effective - marketing.

My publisher is a relatively small erotic romance house. I have one book with them, which sold well enough to merit a renewal and a contracted sequel. I'm far from their best earner. Yet they constantly involve my title in review requests, contests, media promotions, and sales. They can do a lot more in promotion, on a broader scale, than I can by myself. My agent wouldn't let me sign with a house that didn't earn its way in promo and marketing.

That said, I do market on my own. So far, my best results have come from passive and indirect marketing, via free fiction and non fiction essays.
 
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Filigree

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My point is this: If I'm to read any blog that allows promotion I will be doing promotion, not 'chatting-up' and providing meaningful input. Not establishing blog-human-social connection.

I'll agree to disagree. That kind of single-focus promotion can easily be misread as spam, even if it isn't meant as such.

I recently read a marketing essay about new trends in social media marketing. One of the most interesting themes was bypassing blanket spam and 'conversation' posts, and focus on inserting one's product, service, or message into an audience's self-narrative. In other words, 'What can you do for them?'
 

Old Hack

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I know this advice is nearly 3 years old and I'm just getting around to reading it but having read it, I'm kind of wondering if it all has merit - or not.

It is chock-full of merit.

Parts of this are practical advice, parts are humble brag and parts are just...well, not realistic. The bottom line is that the day has 24 hours. That part will never change. Not in our lifetime, anyway. Most of the writers hold a full time job. So that takes 8 hours out of the day, 9 if there is a metropolitan commute, then there is family - that takes about 4-5 hours out of the day, and there is a biological requirement of 6-7 hours for sleeping. That, in essence, leaves precious few hours for writing and promoting.
Agreed.

Which is why when people ask me if they should self-publish I point out to them that it takes a lot of effort, skill, knowledge and time to do it well, and if they don't have enough of all of those things, they're not going to cope.

My point is this: If I'm to read any blog that allows promotion I will be doing promotion, not 'chatting-up' and providing meaningful input. Not establishing blog-human-social connection. There is hardly any time to cook, clean, walk pets, tutor children, do car repairs, do food shopping, take care of aging parents, and such mundane living things, much less time to socialize on blogs to parade a civil presence. Bottom line is if the blog allows promotion, then that's what it will be used for. Otherwise, the writer has no use for it and better move on to the blog and review site that can further his promotion.
It's been shown over and over again that the only really effective way to promote online is to engage with your audience. Shouting "BUY MY BOOK!" only alienates them. It certainly doesn't make them want to buy your book.

If you don't feel you have the resources to provide any "meaningful input", and only have time to dump a chunk of promotion on those blogs, you might as well save yourself the time and not bother at all.

ETA:

Because, as you so astutely pointed out, even the authors who are signed up by legitimate press, don't get any promo or marketing support from their publishers. Just my writer-living experience.

Medievalist did not point out, astutely or otherwise, that publishers don't provide marketing or promotional support. I strongly suggest you reread her comment.

It's not true that writers signed with legitimate presses "don't get any promo or marketing support from their publishers", and I wish people would stop perpetuating this myth.

If it were true, why would publishers employ whole departments of marketing, publicity and promotional staff?

Much of the marketing that good publishers do is designed to get the big bookshops to carry their books. That one single step sells a huge number of books, and is really effective--it not only generates all sales from physical shops, it's also responsible for about 40% of online sales too). But it's all aimed at booksellers, so it's invisible to most readers and writers--which is partly why so many people think publishers don't do any marketing.

Another reason people believe publishers don't market or promote their books is they've heard it said so many times. Vanity publishers have encouraged this; the more evangelical self-publishers have encouraged it too. But it's wrong, and with a little logic and research it's easy to see that.

I'm not saying that all publishers market or promote their books effectively: I know many don't. But the ones which fail in this regard are almost all the tiny publishers with poor business models, inadequate resources, and no distribution, which I'd advise people to avoid for those very reasons.
 
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Helix

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Anecdotal evidence supporting Old Hack's point ---> I have quite strong feelings about BUY MY BOOK!!!! people on social media. They go on my 'don't buy their book' list and don't come off it.
 

Filigree

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I'm just going to pull a section from one of my recent blog posts about marketing, because it applies here.

<1. I subscribe to the breezy email newsletter of a well-known paranormal romance author. The newsletter is as over-the-top and fun as her books; it usually contains links to new reviews of her books, places she'll be book signing, speaking, or teaching, updates on publishers, etc. It is obviously and relentlessly a 'Buy My Book' pitch, but it's wrapped in fun stuff and invites her readers into a zany clubhouse. Her books win genre awards, get great reviews, and sell very well, from a range of erotic romance publishers to a major Big Five SFF imprint.

2. Contrast that with an author who has several thrillers out from a known vanity publisher, which does very little effective marketing of its authors' books. In his social media posts, this author repeats the typical vanity spew that 'all writers have to market themselves, because they know their book best.' He complains of very low sales.

His idea of marketing is apparently 50 tweets in the month of December. 42 of which attempt to sell his own books, with the following clumsy formula: 'If you liked X (gritty modern comic book) and Y (another gritty modern comic series), you'll like my book! Buy link.' With two or three various book or movie comparisons. The other 8 tweets are similar shills for other self-pub or vanity authors in a special interest 'marketing group' (who mostly seem to tweet to each other.)

His books are not bad. They might have found a home in commercial publishing. As it stands, his Amazon sales, both print and digital, are so low his books are way down in the million+ rank. He's apparently not selling any better on other digital and print platforms, according to market info from BookScan. He's sold the vanity publisher at least one more book. He's doomed to the vicious cycle, until he either lucks out with a celebrity endorsement, finds a better publisher, or learns how to actually market his work.>

I'm like Helix. Unless authors can give me other really interesting reasons to buy their books, obvious and clumsy self-promotion make me *less* likely to buy.

And I'm certainly not going to retweet their attempts at promotion, or let them anywhere near my blog.
 

JalexM

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Booked marked this thread, i'm getting ready to promote my book and i'm nervous as hell.
 

AW Admin

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One of the best ways I know to promote your own books is to honestly talk about other people's books that you love or find otherwise interesting and useful, and to do it in genuine and positive ways.

What you've recently read and loved, what you're looking forward to reading as soon as it's out, what you read for research, what inspires you . . .
 

Salaris

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Great thread. I've always found that when I'm promoting my own work, it's good to be humble about it and try to engage with the potential audience as much as possible.
 

NateSean

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I may or may not have made some of these mistakes before reading this post. I feel like the only forums where I made mention of the thing that must not be mentioned in public were forums that I have been a member on for quite sometime. And then only in the same spirit that I might tell someone that I got a new puppy. It's pleasing news and people close to me are happy to know these things. But by no means will I continue to "pimp" my book beyond that one thread on those forums I have frequented for longer than a year, so if I made that mistake, is it forgivable?

My blog has always been opinionated, but I can and do frequently comment on other people's books, movies and other things which fascinate me, so I'll be sure to do that even more so now in the spirit that you have advised.
 

frimble3

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Speaking as someone who frequents another forum with several writers on it, your approach seems fine. You're a member, people know you, they want to know what's new with you. Especially if you've talked about the book during the writing process, they might feel kind of attached to it, and want to buy a copy to know how it all worked out.
Not at all like someone who just comes along, makes one 'buy my book' post, and is never seen or heard of again.
 

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A real dilemma: I just entered my novel in Kindle Scout, thinking that it was 'judged' sorta, by readers assigned thru Amazon publishing - a successful campaign results in Amazon publishing wing publishing and promoting the book. Wrong, sorta. It's primarily reader driven, and the readers who come to the site are primarily thru author efforts. So, I sent emails to everyone who helped, and who asked at various times throughout the writing process. So, we have thirty days to develop interest and to get readers to come to the page and "nominate" the novel. Now, 'me' exists as a very 'tech-stupid' writer, and one that uses social media almost never (no time is one reason). So, the dilemma :: How does one use sites such as twitter or Instagram or others (FB) to send out the info to a large audience of readers (readers that go to site and nominate get free book).

Yes, self-promotion always seems so ego driven, and that bothers me a bit. But mechanics promote service garage, website developers promote web skills ... so why does it seem so self-absorbed to promote writing skills -- not sure, but it's true at least until you establish a name. So, with twenty-two days left on my campaign, my friends and colleagues have spoken, now the 'hits' have declined significantly, and I need to figure out how to reach an audience that might enjoy my work ... because developing a 'following' takes more time than I have. <puzzled> Thanks for any advice -- someone mentioned "hashtags", but tech-dumb me has no clue.
 

NateSean

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Yes, self-promotion always seems so ego driven, and that bothers me a bit.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm in the same boat as you are. But when you think about it, everything we do is driven by our egos. You don't go to a job interview with the intent to sell yourself short. You want the job, so you do everything within the scope of your professional ability to convince the human resources manager that you are worth their time and money.

What's different with a book, I think, is that any form of art is subjective and our challenge is to convince someone that they won't regret spending their extra money on us. As confident as we are in our stories, we can't predict how the general public will react to them. I think the main key to creating your presence though is not just in telling people, "Hey, I have a book, come buy it," but in making the most of your time online and helping people to get to know you.

You're already starting that process with making an account and posting here. So start small and work your way up, but don't lose confidence in your writing ability in the process. Be confident in that and the rest will follow.
 

monkey44

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If it makes you feel any better, I'm in the same boat as you are. But when you think about it, everything we do is driven by our egos. You don't go to a job interview with the intent to sell yourself short. You want the job, so you do everything within the scope of your professional ability to convince the human resources manager that you are worth their time and money.

What's different with a book, I think, is that any form of art is subjective and our challenge is to convince someone that they won't regret spending their extra money on us. As confident as we are in our stories, we can't predict how the general public will react to them. I think the main key to creating your presence though is not just in telling people, "Hey, I have a book, come buy it," but in making the most of your time online and helping people to get to know you.

You're already starting that process with making an account and posting here. So start small and work your way up, but don't lose confidence in your writing ability in the process. Be confident in that and the rest will follow.

I've been a journalist for over twenty years - have no issue with ability, and in fact have been on this forum (somewhat minimally I admit) over a year but it shows only a few posts. So I have no clue where my original posts reside. My password worked tho'.

But I have difficulty where to draw the line on self-promotion with fiction ... it can go over the line easily and turn folks off. And, some folks are simply not readers, or not readers of my genre (maybe) so pushing it more than once in a specific arena and you can easily turn folks off completely. At this stage, it's too personal (notes to friends and colleagues - that works once) and then you're out there in never-land attempting to notify readers you have a novel available - but most (I'm guessing) will ignore it until some/one/they start to recognize your work.

One thing I do notice (ex Kindle Author Forum) the author pops in, leaves a tag-line, and you never hear from him/her again. No one even comments on other posts. It's like posting into a vacuum. If an author expects support, then we all expect support in return.
 
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Msdobing

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There's some excellent advice in this thread, and I'm making an effort to implement many of the items proposed.

One thing I'm not 100% on is the need for both a facebook author page AND an author blog/website? Do we really need both or can a personal website (ie a WordPress blog) be sufficient? I already have a personal website, twitter account and goodreads account, but I'm just debating on the facebook side.

I suppose the question I'm asking is - what does having a facebook author page provide that a personal website doesn't?
 

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There's some excellent advice in this thread, and I'm making an effort to implement many of the items proposed.

One thing I'm not 100% on is the need for both a facebook author page AND an author blog/website? Do we really need both or can a personal website (ie a WordPress blog) be sufficient? I already have a personal website, twitter account and goodreads account, but I'm just debating on the facebook side.

I suppose the question I'm asking is - what does having a facebook author page provide that a personal website doesn't?

Less and less, actually, but there are people who read FB who don't read the Web, so it's worth posting at least a short synopsis and a link from your site / blog on FB when you have something to say, or a book coming out, etc.

In general, I lean towards writers separating their personal from their business/writer persona. Your friends and family are interested in your holiday plans, your pets, and your kids; your readers might not be.
 

andiwrite

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There's some excellent advice in this thread, and I'm making an effort to implement many of the items proposed.

One thing I'm not 100% on is the need for both a facebook author page AND an author blog/website? Do we really need both or can a personal website (ie a WordPress blog) be sufficient? I already have a personal website, twitter account and goodreads account, but I'm just debating on the facebook side.

I suppose the question I'm asking is - what does having a facebook author page provide that a personal website doesn't?

People on Facebook will see it. I'd imagine that's about it.

I know for a fact that almost everyone I know in real life is on Facebook, but very few of them are on Twitter for whatever reason. The only people I ever see on Twitter are either celebrities or other writers. There's a few exceptions, of course. But for the most part, Facebook seems to be the place to reach the average, everyday American. YMMV in other places.

I currently have Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter, Goodreads, and my website/blog. I kind of can't stomach anything else, lol. And I have no idea if any of it is working for me. My new plan is to focus more on the blog than anything else. I resisted blogging for so long. It makes me feel kind of silly for some reason, and thinking up engaging topics isn't easy. Still, my intuition is telling me it's the best path for me.
 

Msdobing

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Less and less, actually, but there are people who read FB who don't read the Web, so it's worth posting at least a short synopsis and a link from your site / blog on FB when you have something to say, or a book coming out, etc.

In general, I lean towards writers separating their personal from their business/writer persona. Your friends and family are interested in your holiday plans, your pets, and your kids; your readers might not be.

Thanks for the response. Upon reflection I created a facebook author page, so separate from my (rarely used) facebook profile. I've included references to my blog, which I'm thinking will still be my main source of "content" for now, although I will see I get any increased traffic via FB.
 

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An overview of my investigation into social media, and its use for new author selling books. We need to recognize here too, in this that my field - investigation, not technology, nor media control -- my primary employment = Documentary Journalist ... and some fiction -- so read this with that in hand.

We used FB / Twitter / Linkd and boosted AD posts for one novel -- the followers accumulated pretty significantly and quickly... but apparently, followers and 'click bites' don't buy books thru that effort. They look at words, look at an image and enjoy it, but very often are off to the races with no time to clink into or buy book. This is based on a two week period of boost posts and we logged over 108,000 hits. We got only a few hundred actual page clicks from those, and ONE sale ... ONE.

We discovered a few things about "tag lines" too, and age brackets - hooking the 16 year-olds doesn't help, nor did sending it to Turkey and the Russians (accidentally set it and did that) - I find that pretty humorous, and educational, if nothing else. I'll talk about tweet here, but it follows across all Social media channels ...

Emerging in the social media - folks now set automatic responses - so when you send a tweet, their "robot" grabs it and sends a canned response and captures your tweet address - so instead of socializing, we have robots sending notes to one another that no one ever reads - mind-boggling.

In general, it serves more to profit to the media website owners (FB/Tweet/Linkd/Instagram) and gives a person a chance to say something s/he think means something to many readers - most generally, it doesn't, but allows 'the self' to express 'self info' -- that's the most prominent tweet subjects.

The most prominent non-personal tweet I see is 'books for sale', hundreds - thousands, all competing, altho' my best guess is not many actually read/click the link nor follow up and buy one, the click send you a "buy my book" note, instead of a "bought your book" note. So, it works backwards, you send out a note, which gets you only a pitch to sell you a book, not a buyer ...

The electronic world created the terms "Social Media" and "Selfie" in the same breath - an absolute contradiction. Much of it wastes time taking photos of Ta-dah - "ourselves" .... and not only that, SHARE it with a thousand other people that care only because you look at the selfie each one sends back -- not very productive marketing tool in that regard.

We attacked this marketing as if building a 'fan base' will generate sales - NOPE - backwards. Sales of a product (E-Book, Purina, Snickers) generates a 'fan base' or a 'product sale continuum' after the fact -- most buying connections on new products (authors or books included) generate from TV ads, or some kind of random visual contact (magazine ads) or Amazon product search - a visual or auditory pitch direct to your eyes and ears - NOT a tweet you have to follow and click again. That only works if you are famous and people ARE already looking for YOU...

This is what social media evolved into, at first it truly was social - now the only one even close is Facebook, and that's only because families keep posting family info to share with family and no one else cares ... So it create a small family social pod on the web and allows family members to write "once" and note everyone in family and friends - so, how much extended social contact is in that anyway?? Not much.

My take, almost no one reads or follows up in a meaningful way that will create sales on tweets or FB boosts unless you are already famous - In my opinion, it appears many of these social media folks collect followings as
sort of status symbol or a game in the tweet community. Who has the most tweets wins!

Found a forum group on Amazon that actually post tweets for one another each AM if one of them is gone or unable - and the majority of that forum just posts a random tweet every day with the same subject message - with a small tweak ... And, most are on auto-pilot. Many are approaching 10,000 followers - bizarre!! No one can possibly interact with that many contacts. So it becomes a method for a person to Collect Tweets rather than read them and interact. OR, it allows one to remain in touch with celebrities or products that s/he already likes and supports as a 'sell product' method, a 'go get it' tweet - rather than an introduction to a new product. IF you need to make a new friend and chat with him/her to sell a product, you're dead !!!! How many friends would you need - 100,000 ??? more??? You'd need 250 hours in a day and never sleep or eat.

I randomly selected several tweet people that added me to follow - so I went to their tweet page, and sent a tweet, several times, and a variety of twits. And I got responses almost instantly - the same programmed response, exactly the same, from a program that responds to each tweet to it and collects the tweets - and also sent several PMs to tweets as well. Again, as often as not, got back identical pre-programmed welcome responses from each one, but no substance - so, few people actually read the tweets or the PMs, it appears. Altho' I did get a very few real PM returns, but generally it was to try to sell ME a book (or something else), not to buy mine.

I also tested the market with the Amazon publicity/ad programs this past two weeks. Dollar for dollar, I got almost six times the number of clicks as with the social media - and Amazon only charges if a reader/target actually clicks on the book page and opens it, and reads it. So far, as best I can tell with the data, I have one sale thru social media, and a bunch of sales with Amazon ads and other methods (coercing friends :) .... :) ... so, that becomes pretty relevant in how I'll proceed from here. I'll probably 'tweet' or FB once a week or so, just to keep the media active - but social media in my opinion is not a good time/work exchenge for the return in sales. Might work after you get followings that are waiting for your new books, but how many will stick around a year between releases --

When asked directly, most Amazon writers say they sell almost no books thru social media beyond friends and family. It almost exclusively thru other media (book signings, interviews on a radio, or video, or random encounter thru the Amazon searches). A few mentioned Goodreads, but that's now an Amazon product too.

So, to me anyway, the social media concentrates much more on the "Self and selfies" than it does social communications - maybe at first it did social exchange of products or ideas, but it has now become another automated game amongst most of its users ... just my opinion.
 

andiwrite

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Thanks for all that good info, monkey44 and others... I was going to buy Facebook ads but now I'm not so sure. I will look into Amazon ads since you've had success from them.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but will the Amazon ad program work if I haven't self-published my book? I don't actually have access to the book page. Not sure if that matters.
 
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Msdobing

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monkey44 thanks for that in-depth response, it's very helpful indeed, especially as I was considering how much to approach specific advertising and in what form. Based on this I'm looking specifically at using Amazon advertising first to test the waters and will see how it progresses from there.

Thanks again!
 

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to follow up briefly - this only popped a month out of the stream of time a book is available, but I did this evaluation with only one Novel direct from its launch date. In addition - I have no track record to speak of with fiction, several short story collections, and one novel, so the data is extremely raw -- most of my work has been documentary and photography, so the name recognition will not cross over well.

I suggest anyone that has Amazon as a distributor at least try the Amazon promotions, as I got some response, and some minimally from FB - I'd suggest Facebook would be the best social media to attempt and boost, as it hits a family pod of folks who will pass it on to family and friends as conversation at the party table if nothing else ... and that help spread. It's a tough world out there, and probably one of the toughest items to sell anywhere will always be "a new author with a first novel, or a second and no name yet".

One thing that pokes me in the eye when I read it -- media folks say: You have to communicate with the "fans" to keep them active - well, I feel like if I had TEN 'media friends' it would take significant time to"maintain" a relationship -- and that's hours a week, and even if it works, TEN books sold --hardly worth it, and if you believe 10,000 friend is what you need, who has that kind of time?? Not me, I'd never write, or eat, or walk the dog, or tickle the kids. Now, imagine a 100,000 pack of media friends?? You'd need several clones ... so, to me, social media is great to get the word out on the web, maybe once or twice -- but to attempt to maintain relationships with all the RT's and FB and others that connect, unless your personal journey enjoys hours and hours on the web replying, that's what the social media is worth ... UNLESS, you hit a hashtag that goes viral accidentally, (lucky, very lucky) it's grinding it out for small return - especially with many turning to a 'robotic response' which many are for the exact reasons I raise here -- we beat dead horses rather than sell books.
 
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