[eZine] Frontier Tales

IINAL, but as long as you agree to it, they can do it. Based on that sentence, it looks like you give up the rights to your story upon submission (not acceptance). You could probably still submit the story to another pub after, but I don't see another magazine taking it on because they don't have the exclusive right to publish it.

Shrink-wrap contracts may not be legally enforceable, but breaking it would probably cost far more than it's worth.

And what do you get by publishing with these guys, anyway? A "credit" at a 4theluv e-zine. That makes you look more like a no-hoper than an up-and-comer.

Toffeehead,
How long ago did you submit? You might be able to send them an e-mail withdrawing the submission. They seem like nice people. Maybe they'll give you your rights back. Can't hurt to try. Good luck! -- Jamie

Back in the 1980s-1990s a fair number if gaming companies used to include a clause in their submissions guidelines that read essentially "by submitting your material to us you acknowledge our copyright of your work and surrender all and any rights whatsoever to us unconditionally". Not a few of these gaming companies were later essentially accused if "stealing" the author's work by including close, if not exact, works in published products with or without acknowledgement of the original author and/or paying the original author little or nothing for their work.

Many of these gaming companies, of which a few continue to exist to this day, refuted originator author claims under the "derivative works" clause of copyright law and, as Uncle Jim points out above, made it prohibitively expensive for a contributing fan to pursue any claim(s) against said company. With that said, it can be legitimately claimed that the product of the originating authors was, under the broadest sense, licensed by said gaming companies from various more powerful legal owners of said copyrights (ex Paramount Pictures) and that said works were directly dirivative of the model created by said gaming companies for gaming within the said copyright's universe.

However, and I haven't checked for a long, long time, the derivative works section of copyright law used to state that a derivative work which was more than 50% original could be copyrighted by an original author drawing material concepts from another author or copyright holder's work. This may, hopefully, have been changed due to the fact that it opened a huge loophole in traditional author's works versus fan fiction. However, in the gaming industry at the time, it appeared to protect someone say, designing a new ship or race for the game X Fleet Battles or Histrion 12 Wars from having their original or more than 50% original derivative material allegedly stolen from them.

However, because of their submissions clause, you agreed, in principle, that they owned your material by the simple act of submitting that material to them in the first place.

I don't believe that clause would have ever held up in court, but I don't recall that anyone ever challenged anyone over it.

Toffeehead, don't ask, tell them you are withdrawing the work.

Demanding right off the bat may not get you anywhere. Flies, honey, vinegar ... you know the drill.

Note that there's nothing wrong with little 4theluv e-zines. It all depends on your goals.

My comments are for folks who want to be professional writers. Others have different wants, different goals, and different paths.

I publish stuff for free on the web all the darned time. I just don't add it to my CV.

Toffeehead,

Frontier Tales is my zine. Here's why I worded the submissions policy that way. My intent was (and is) only to prevent someone sending something in and then being unhappy because I published it. I'm sure that sounds foolish to lots of people. Why else would you send something in if you didn't want it published? Be that as it may, it's just a way for me to cover myself.

Now, how does it work in reality? If you get published first elsewhere, and that precludes Frontier Tales from having the right to publish also, please let me know -- I won't publish the work. If you decide to withdraw the work, let me know. I won't publish the work. I have withdrawn every other story from the zine prior to publication when I was asked to, so I can't see why I wouldn't do the same for you.

Frontier Tales is, as I've seen it referred to here, a "4theluv" zine. I know you aren't making any money from it, but neither am I. Not a dime.

I am starting a small press called Pen-L Publishing which I hope will make a profit. I'm drawing on stories from Frontier Tales, specifically those which were voted Best of the Month. The authors of those stories selected for the Best of Frontier Tales Anthology will be getting royalties for their work. If I make money, they make money. I think that's fair. Don't you?

This isn't the first time I've seen a submission-equals-grant-of-rights submission policy in small non-paying ezines.

I was recently asked about another such (not Frontier Tales nor related to them in any way), so I asked one of my friends at a major publisher about that. Here's the answer I received:
Keep in mind that neither I nor my correspondent is a lawyer, nor is this legal advice for anyone's particular situation.

Frontier Tales

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but is anyone familiar with this publication, namely if they pay?

http://www.frontiertales.com/index.php

I'm thinking they don't pay, if only because they allow you to withdraw at any point in the publication process (before publication) and also don't care whether something has been published elsewhere, or even if you are publishing something at FT and somewhere else simultaneously.

Thedrellum said:

I'm thinking they don't pay, if only because they allow you to withdraw at any point in the publication process (before publication) and also don't care whether something has been published elsewhere, or even if you are publishing something at FT and somewhere else simultaneously.

Click to expand...

That's what I figured. Thanks!

And thank to the mod for moving my post here. Gave me even more information.

Doesn't look like anything's changed with this market. They still have the rights grab. It doesn't stop being one because they say it isn't one. You don't want to submit to a place that takes right just from submitting, whether they let you withdraw later or not. It would still allow them to publish without letting you know.

How markets usually work is you submit to them. No rights handed over. Then they decide to accept or reject. If they accept, they send you a contract. If you agree to the terms (or you agree to them after some negotiation) you sign the contract. Only then does the market get the right to publish it. It's not author-friendly to skip this process.

And note here the publisher saw the concerns and dismissed them. They're not looking to make the site author-friendly or to learn about the industry. They've had years to do so, and haven't. Someone saying they want to help authors doesn't make it true.

If you really want to give your story away for free, put it on your website.

You know, I completely overlooked the rights grab at first. Reading over this thread is what brought my attention to it, and I thank you for going into even more detail.

I remember a few years ago, Marvel Comics was looking for new writers and artists. I was actually going to go for it, but I saw in their fine print that they would have ownership of all materials sent them as sample--not just the actual content itself mind you, but ideas and concepts as well. And here we are today, with me not working for Marvel Comics, but also still in possession of my own creations. I get that there such a thing as "work for hire," but unless that's what I'm agreeing to (and being fairly compensated for it), I'd just rather not.

It didn't sit well with me that Frontier Tales didn't address payment either way on their website to begin with, and I can say with confidence that I won't be submitting anything to them now.