The Movie John Carter?

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A very interesting article and seems to relieve Disney of all failure. I am not sure I buy that...completely.

If I give someone 200 million, I am going to want certain guarantees about schedules and other stuff, especially if the person has never done what I am asking him to do.

I wonder how this is going to affect Pixler/Stanton's future with Disney?

Stanton can't be happy with this type of articles...

Well. I think studios can get A-list director-blinded. That is, they may not feel good about what's going on, the process, but the guy is obviously some kind of incredible talent, if not an all-out genius and he certainly knows how to make profitable films, so in a way, they have to believe that he knows what he's doing. If Stanton also had final cut on marketing, which you can certainly get if you're enough of a big-shot (and it sounds like he did), then their hands can start to become tied. I am in no way exonerating the studio here - it was their call to make this film - and I really don't know what happened in the back and forth between them, but I do think there must have been an element of "well, he's made billions for Disney in the past... so..." That's happened with Cameron twice now, and it worked both times. The execs don't know how to make these things for themselves - they need directors - but they don't fully understand them, so when they come up against the big dogs, I really do think there's a sort of lip-biting tolerance that goes on because, despite everything, there's a chance of not just making a profit, but of absolutely nailing it, and that is what each and every one of them ultimately are striving for. Again, I don't know the true story here, but this is certainly in keeping with my experiences of the studio system so far.

As to the future, well, Stanton's more than proven his worth at Pixar and that environment is so collabortive that I'm sure no-one would have any problem with him going back to direct their Next Big Thing, which is certainly no bad gig for him. I think he's involved already in some kind of Monsters, Inc sequel and a possible Toy Story 4, both of which would make bags of money.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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This article offers some interesting theories about John Carter's failure, particularly relating to Stanton's mindset and process. There's a lot of anonymous sources, but it's a compelling read.
That was a fascinating read--thanks for sharing!

One of the best points I think is the same one that thothguard made earlier--Stanton clearly had no idea that the Mars books, and the name "John Carter," just weren't well-known enough to sell the movie by themselves.

Hell, I didn't read the first book myself until I heard (years ago) that Kitsch was going to be in a movie based on them. This was back before they even started shooting. I follow his career pretty closely, otherwise I'm not sure this would have even been on my radar.
 

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Willem Defoe is convincing as a six-limbed green alien. I liked Woola (though I recall him having ten legs, not six, in the book; guess that's hard to pull off convincingly).

Woola has ten legs. He as three on each side and four underneath. There's several very quick bits where the angle is ground-level so you can see the four underneath.

Also originally, Star Wars did not do all that great in theaters--it was actually the toy sales that made the profit. Maybe Disney should pump more effort into selling John Carter dolls.

Does anyone have a link to JCM merchandise? I searched a when the movie first came out and only discovered some really LAME t-shirt designs on Disney's site.

Actually, I'd want a Woola doll. Big, squishy, plushie Woola.

Seconded. On both counts.

Deffo. I'm surprised Disney hasn't cashed in on this option more.

Disney has not even counted the Overseas sales yet, nor the merchandising, and the DVD and Pay on Demand sales and you know that this movie will sell DVD's.

I think Disney is looking for a scape goat so they don't have to continue the franchise. They claim to have spent 100 million on advertising. Fire the damn people in charge of the advertising because they did not do their job...

Most people I have talked to who said they more than likely would not see JC, said its because the trailers looked cheesy. When I asked my women friends if they knew this was a love story, most said no, they just thought it another Conan like story. I guess most people just do not identify John Carter as a love story and this is where Disney failed...

I've also heard that one of the other problems with the film is that it was championed by the previous Disney heads. When they left, the new heads weren't happy with the movie, but too much money had been sunk in it. They didn't want to push it because it's not a direction they want the company to go in. Which both makes sense and seems really moronic to me.

The other problem I noticed is that long before the movie came out, audiences were pretty much being told that JCM would totally suck and they shouldn't waste their money on it. I know I got that message. Most people don't think about those kinds of impressions and just go with it. That movie's gonna suck, so why bother? Compare that to the "You must see The Hunger Games" that's been pounded into everyone for the last several months. It seems no one's allowed to make up their own mind about such things anymore.
 

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Does anyone have a link to JCM merchandise? I searched a when the movie first came out and only discovered some really LAME t-shirt designs on Disney's site.
I dunno about "merchandise," but I have seen the books everywhere. They're on the YA table in Barnes and Noble, which is . . . yeah. Okay.
I've also heard that one of the other problems with the film is that it was championed by the previous Disney heads. When they left, the new heads weren't happy with the movie, but too much money had been sunk in it. They didn't want to push it because it's not a direction they want the company to go in. Which both makes sense and seems really moronic to me.

The other problem I noticed is that long before the movie came out, audiences were pretty much being told that JCM would totally suck and they shouldn't waste their money on it. I know I got that message. Most people don't think about those kinds of impressions and just go with it. That movie's gonna suck, so why bother? Compare that to the "You must see The Hunger Games" that's been pounded into everyone for the last several months. It seems no one's allowed to make up their own mind about such things anymore.
The more I hear about this movie, the more convinced I am that the Marketing Fail was either a deliberate sabotage or a massive lack of direction. The fact that it's sci-fi to start with, is directed by someone who previously has only done children's movies for Pixar--great films, but children's movies, and never live action--plus the repackaging of the novels are being prodded towards the YA section of the bookstore, AND most of the people who grew up reading them are a good deal older than, well, children--they have no idea who their target demographic is.

But why would they drop the ball after so much money had been spent? That mystifies me. It's like they just gave up. I just checked RottenTomatoes, and it's number three at weekend box office, but it's still well over $100 million shy of breaking even with the budget.
 
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I know why John Carter's flopping at the box office: it was intolerably ridiculous. Given that I generally suspend my disbelief pretty high when it comes to sword-swinging fantasy movies like this, that's saying a lot.

Why is John Carter the only lifeform on Mars who can exploit the planet's low gravity with his jumping? Why would the green aliens lay their eggs so far from their settlement, and how could such a generally vicious race (the compassionate ones are rare exceptions) form a cohesive society? Why would human beings evolve twice on two separate planets in the same universe? And how could such a barren desert planet still ecologically support large populations of both sapient lifeforms and megafauna?

The crowning moment of stupid is when John Carter slaughters a whole army of giant green aliens all by himself. Not even Conan could pull that off.

The villains' motivations were way too murky. From what I gather, they're some immortal godlike beings who go around destroying worlds, but why is never clearly explained. How am I supposed to fear bad guys when I don't even know what they're after?

In summary, it sucked.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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^Ridiculousness aside, there are still plenty of equally ridiculous movies that do very, very well at the box office. At that level, it's not yet a question of quality, but of convincing people to come watch--getting bodies in seats. I understand you didn't enjoy it, but you still went, am I right? You can't form an opinion without going out to watch the thing in the first place. What we're talking about is the failure to convince people to come watch in the first place.

I'll let someone else answer your questions--I'm too tired--but I will say that all of the things you mentioned existed in the original book, and given the time period weren't considered quite so ridiculous back then. Now we have a better idea of what Mars actually looks like, we know it doesn't have any life on it, etc, so some of the details feel a lot more ridiculous to a modern audience than they would have to an audience decades ago.

Which is another reason why I think fans of the book generally enjoyed it. Many plot elements are too far-fetched for a current cinema audience to accept, but it's a remarkably faithful adaptation.
 

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I took John Carter to be more fantasy than sci-fi, which seems to be the fate of many old "sci-fi" stories.
 

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I know why John Carter's flopping at the box office: it was intolerably ridiculous. Given that I generally suspend my disbelief pretty high when it comes to sword-swinging fantasy movies like this, that's saying a lot.

Why is John Carter the only lifeform on Mars who can exploit the planet's low gravity with his jumping? Why would the green aliens lay their eggs so far from their settlement, and how could such a generally vicious race (the compassionate ones are rare exceptions) form a cohesive society? Why would human beings evolve twice on two separate planets in the same universe? And how could such a barren desert planet still ecologically support large populations of both sapient lifeforms and megafauna?

The crowning moment of stupid is when John Carter slaughters a whole army of giant green aliens all by himself. Not even Conan could pull that off.

The villains' motivations were way too murky. From what I gather, they're some immortal godlike beings who go around destroying worlds, but why is never clearly explained. How am I supposed to fear bad guys when I don't even know what they're after?

In summary, it sucked.
Never read any of the books, huh?
 

DeleyanLee

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Never read any of the books, huh?

That's not a crime or a requirement to see the movie, y'know. The fact that it didn't stand up and make sense without having read the book actually says a great deal as to how good the movie is.

A bunch of us went over the weekend to see it. Three of our group never read or even heard of the books. Their opinion was much the same as T-Rex's, though they enjoyed it for the visual effects and not the confusing story. It did lead to some lively discussion as the other three of us tried to explain Barsoom to them (and at least one of them buying the books ;)). Nothing wrong with that. Barsoom is not going to be everyone's cuppa.
 

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The crowning moment of stupid is when John Carter slaughters a whole army of giant green aliens all by himself. Not even Conan could pull that off.

Actually, that was true to the books. John Carter did not become Warlord of Mars by talking his enemies to death.

I'll note also that John Carter predates Conan by more than a decade. Conan borrowed a lot from Tarzan, John Carter's more primitive sibling. But the true analog for John Carter is not Conan -- it's Superman, the kind of hero who could take on armies.

The villains' motivations were way too murky.

I agree that the villains were not done very well, but it's obviously setting them up as the antagonists in a trilogy. The filmmakers probably intended to flesh out the thern in the sequel, and focus on the more cinematic bad guys in the first film. That's a bad decision on their part.
 

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Isn't the reason John Carter can leap and none of the other humanoids can is because he's from Earth and has a different gravitational relationship to Mars than its inhabitants? Much like how when one goes to the moon one bounces around etc?

It made sense to me, and I haven't read the books. In fact I quite liked that he became a superhero on Mars simply because he was from Earth. Like how Superman is a superhero on Earth because he came from Krypton. It's not that they were special on their home worlds, it's just they are different from the inhabitants of the new world they've landed on.
 

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I know why John Carter's flopping at the box office: it was intolerably ridiculous. Given that I generally suspend my disbelief pretty high when it comes to sword-swinging fantasy movies like this, that's saying a lot.

Why is John Carter the only lifeform on Mars who can exploit the planet's low gravity with his jumping? Why would the green aliens lay their eggs so far from their settlement, and how could such a generally vicious race (the compassionate ones are rare exceptions) form a cohesive society? Why would human beings evolve twice on two separate planets in the same universe? And how could such a barren desert planet still ecologically support large populations of both sapient lifeforms and megafauna?

The crowning moment of stupid is when John Carter slaughters a whole army of giant green aliens all by himself. Not even Conan could pull that off.

The villains' motivations were way too murky. From what I gather, they're some immortal godlike beings who go around destroying worlds, but why is never clearly explained. How am I supposed to fear bad guys when I don't even know what they're after?

In summary, it sucked.


You've just described pretty much every swords & sorcery, every space opera, and every pulp fiction novel ever.

The Barsoom books were typical of their genre, and John Carter the movie was better than most of its type.
 

Cyia

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Isn't the reason John Carter can leap and none of the other humanoids can is because he's from Earth and has a different gravitational relationship to Mars than its inhabitants? Much like how when one goes to the moon one bounces around etc?

It made sense to me, and I haven't read the books. In fact I quite liked that he became a superhero on Mars simply because he was from Earth. Like how Superman is a superhero on Earth because he came from Krypton. It's not that they were special on their home worlds, it's just they are different from the inhabitants of the new world they've landed on.

Exactly.

I'm fairly sure, too. that since the novel was old school, it adhered to the convention of "Any hero with J.C. for initials is meant to be representative of the Christ-figure archetype."
 

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Never read any of the books, huh?

My first thought as well, but then, I would think a majority of the movie patrons do not read the books from which the movies are made...

To me, that is part of the problem the director faced. He wanted to remain true to ERB fans, (his version of true), but forgot to tell a story those who know nothing about Barsoom could follow without nagging questions.

What good is building a series slowly if the first one flops?

Even the latest Conan movie flopped, yet the TV series A Game of Thrones is a hit with out all the special effects. WHY? IMHO, it's because the writers and directors of AGOT remembered to tell the story first and foremost...
 

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I've yet to see the movie, but I find it odd that they wouldn't explain that John carter coming from Earth's heavier gravity became a veritable superman on Mars.

This is also the first time I heard him compared to Christ.


It was something our English Lit teacher said. Basically, it was vogue until the 1900's or so to be overly clever with the archetype and use the JC thing. (I remember her going on and on about Jerry Cruncher, the "Resurrection Man" from A Tale of Two Cities)
 

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@Toothpaste: Thanks for using the Superman/Krypton analogy--I love that, and wouldn't have thought to draw the comparison.

@Shadow_Ferret: I thought they did explain it, although briefly--the Head Thern in that sequence when he had Carter bound and mute. (Which I thought was pretty cool, and quite evil.)

thothguard51 said:
To me, that is part of the problem the director faced. He wanted to remain true to ERB fans, (his version of true), but forgot to tell a story those who know nothing about Barsoom could follow without nagging questions.
That's how I felt as well. It's a fanboy labor of love, clearly, but it's not likely to reach an audience much wider than that specific audience. Which I'm kinda okay with, except for the fact that it's failing commercially and critically as a result. And I kinda wonder, keeping in mind now how often I've complained about faulty adaptations, if this is why so many movies change so much or retell various things in different ways--to grab an audience that knows nothing about the universe.

Damn, it must be tough being a screenwriter... If you care about being true to the story and trying to draw as wide an audience as possible, I mean.
 

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I haven't read the books, but I understood the movie just fine.

I do agree, the trailers did nothing for the film and made it look like a cross between Conan and Star Wars. If it had shown more of John Carter's cool super abilities, like a super hero movie trailer, I think that would have had more appeal, considering that super heroes are the "in" thing at the moment.
 

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If anyone hasn't read the books and has a Kindle, they're being offered for free on Amazon. Or at least most of them are. I downloaded the first trilogy and eyeballed the next four books in line, but decided to wait and see if I liked the trilogy before downloading the rest.
 

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I haven't read the books, but I understood the movie just fine.

I do agree, the trailers did nothing for the film and made it look like a cross between Conan and Star Wars. If it had shown more of John Carter's cool super abilities, like a super hero movie trailer, I think that would have had more appeal, considering that super heroes are the "in" thing at the moment.
For the record, I still can't see this as anything but AWESOME. I've heard that comparison before, always in a negative context, and it always makes me think, "What, that doesn't sound kickass to you? Good God, why not?"
 

DeleyanLee

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For the record, I still can't see this as anything but AWESOME. I've heard that comparison before, always in a negative context, and it always makes me think, "What, that doesn't sound kickass to you? Good God, why not?"

BION, there are people who aren't enthralled with those movies. I happen to be one of them. :Shrug:
 

thothguard51

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BION, there are people who aren't enthralled with those movies. I happen to be one of them. :Shrug:

Then you were not the movies targeted audience, just as with Conception, I was not the among the target audience, or Twilight, or Harry Potter. The movie studios figure this all in when deciding on to make or not to make...

And I am not sure if its me or not, but since the opening weekend, I have seen very few adds for the movie.
 

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I think they showed the trailer when I went to see Sherlock Holmes. But I recall it more strongly when I saw it on Youtube.

I enjoyed both the original Conan and Star Wars, but the two mashed together? Awkward. Imagine a guy in a loincloth wavering a sword around in the Star Wars universe, or aliens with laser rifles in the Conan universe. It just doesn't fit.
 

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This article offers some interesting theories about John Carter's failure, particularly relating to Stanton's mindset and process. There's a lot of anonymous sources, but it's a compelling read.
A good read.

worth reading to, as this perceived flop will effect other decision by Disney and other big prod companies.

but the 'it's all already being plundered' thingy is probably the most interesting part.