"In America..." (accurate racial references/terms)

Morwen Edhelwen

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"In America, we'd be considered black/colo(u)red/Negroes?" In my dieselpunk WIP, the 14-year-old protagonist, Che Guevara, describes his sister's appearance, then writes the above sentence about his family being considered Black in America. This is in the Historical section because I'm stuck on what word to use- I want to be accurate in language referring to race. "In America, we'd be considered-" what? (Is this even in the right forum? Can a moderator move it if it isn't?)
 
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Morwen Edhelwen

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This is a question of "Which word's more accurate/more plausible?", not "Should I use these words?" Anyone have opinions? (And I'm writing the story while posting on this forum).
 
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Puma

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You didn't mention your time period and that's critical for the answer. Today the word would be black; fifty years ago it would be colored or Negro; one hundred years ago it could have been Nigger; one hundred and fifty years ago possibly darkies. There are some regional differences in names, but those above are pretty general.

Are you sure you want to use Che Guevara as a main character name? Puma
 

Brickcommajason

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Just a thought: maybe you could be descriptive about their situation. Instead of a flat racial perjorative, it could be...

(Set in 1800) "In America, we'd be slaves."
(Set in 1900) "In America, we'd be living in a shack and drinking from separate fountains."
(Set in 2000) "In America, we'd have "equal rights" but twice a white person's chance of receiving the death penalty or being shot by a cop."
 

maxmordon

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You mentioned it was set in the 30's and 40's, right?

"In America, we'd be lynched just for looking at the wrong person."

Just what Brick said above.
 

donroc

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Pejorative terms for males of Spanish-speaking heritage as I recall in the 1950s were "Spic" for Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and Central Americans of mixed heritages and specifically "Cholo" and "Wetback" for Mexican-Americans.

The positive positive "Latin Lover" was applied to those who resembled, Caesar Romero, Ricardo Montalban and Fernando Lamas.
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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You didn't mention your time period and that's critical for the answer. Today the word would be black; fifty years ago it would be colored or Negro; one hundred years ago it could have been Nigger; one hundred and fifty years ago possibly darkies. There are some regional differences in names, but those above are pretty general.

Are you sure you want to use Che Guevara as a main character name? Puma

Puma, this story is a dieselpunk take on the events before the Cuban Revolution, including (basically) the rise of the Perons. Time period is 1940s-50s. ETA: wasn't segregation practiced up until the 1960s?
 
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Dave Hardy

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Puma, this story is a dieselpunk take on the events before the Cuban Revolution, including (basically) the rise of the Perons. Time period is 1940s-50s. ETA: wasn't segregation practiced up until the 1960s?

Yes, though the desegregation battles began as early as the 1950s, eg Brown v Board of Education, integration of the US Army in Korea. Segregation in private institutions ran longer, and to some degree in less overt forms in the '70s, decreasing over time.
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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Che Guevara?

Che Guevara???


Che Guevara?????
Yeah, Paul, *she goes into explanation* it's alternate history of the third type: "uses history as a source for ideas... as a springboard to a somewhat familiar, yet very different, time and place", paraphrasing what NDoyle said on this thread:http://184.168.82.237/forums/showthread.php?p=7006581 which I started on how much historical licence a person can take with alt. history. Giving CG a Race Lift certainly counts, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RaceLift
as does making his anti-Americanism a little more close to home, and adding airships and biological robots to the technology of the time, and having him start out as a kitchen servant.
This WIP isn't historical fiction- this thread is here because I want to be reasonably accurate in the language used.
*stops explanation*.
 

Puma

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Yes, segregation was very much alive in the 1950's in the states. I remember quite a lot from those days. Puma
 

Paul

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Yeah, Paul, *she goes into explanation* it's alternate history of the third type: "uses history as a source for ideas... as a springboard to a somewhat familiar, yet very different, time and place", paraphrasing what NDoyle said on this thread:http://184.168.82.237/forums/showthread.php?p=7006581 which I started on how much historical licence a person can take with alt. history. Giving CG a Race Lift certainly counts, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RaceLift
as does making his anti-Americanism a little more close to home, and adding airships and biological robots to the technology of the time, and having him start out as a kitchen servant.
This WIP isn't historical fiction- this thread is here because I want to be reasonably accurate in the language used.
*stops explanation*.

Ah. I see.

Em, carry on so.
 

backslashbaby

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Dad says it was 'colored' or 'Negroes' in the 50's. The water fountains and bathroom signs said 'Colored', for instance.

This was the everyday, polite description, not the rude words that were also used at the time.

For example: "Is that colored woman on the corner the one who sells those tomatoes you served us last week, Bill?" "Yep, she's the lady who grows those."
 

DianeL

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I'm not old enough to have firsthand observations of the 1950s, but I grew up in the South, am well into my forties, and have never in my life known a person who used the terms black, "nigger" or "colored" for anyone who was not of African descent. I still remember my confusion when the term came up in the opening scenes of "Ghandi" - it was utterly new to me to hear "black" used of anyone from the Subcontinent. In the seventies, by the way, Black is Beautiful was meant to nullify any pejorative in that term, too.

I can certainly admit I've been acquainted with bigots (even moreso when I lived in the Midwest). I knew folks who used the term "Jigaboo" and a couple oldsters who still remembered "darkie". But not for Latinos. Donroc mentions the names I associate with that brand of bigotry.
 

Morwen Edhelwen

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And thanks backslashbaby and DianeL! The only people I know who grew up in the 50s were very young then- roughly my parents' age. The protagonist is actually a Black Latino.
 

donroc

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When I served in the U.S. Army in the mid 1950s, many black Puerto Ricans referred to themselves as Spanish, which pissed off Mexican-Americans who called themselves Spanish, and both pissed off those of "pure" Spanish heritage.:Shrug:

"Jungle-Buddy" was another pejorative term I heard regarding Blacks in the Army during the 1950s.
 

backslashbaby

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My dad's perspective is from the south, but more northern than areas with large Latino populations at that time, like Texas.

He said they would have still thought the person was black here, but that they might add a country in:

"That guy Chris -- you know, the colored man from Cuba-- asked me about you the other day" sort of thing.

Dad was a teen in the 50's.
 

Clueless

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There's an old guy near to where I live that only refers to blacks as either "Brownies" "Darkies" or "Chocolates".
"Brownies" is for when he's talking about children/teenagers/immature people. "Darkies" are for men and women that he doesn't find attractive. "Chocolates" are women he does find attractive as well as men that he respects.
 

escritora

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There's an old guy near to where I live that only refers to blacks as either "Brownies" "Darkies" or "Chocolates".
"Brownies" is for when he's talking about children/teenagers/immature people. "Darkies" are for men and women that he doesn't find attractive. "Chocolates" are women he does find attractive as well as men that he respects.

What a jerk.
 

DianeL

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When I served in the U.S. Army in the mid 1950s, many black Puerto Ricans referred to themselves as Spanish, which pissed off Mexican-Americans who called themselves Spanish, and both pissed off those of "pure" Spanish heritage.:Shrug:

"Jungle-Buddy" was another pejorative term I heard regarding Blacks in the Army during the 1950s.

Do you mean jungle bunny? I've never heard it as buddy. (I'd insert a smiley at you, but given this subject I'll just hope you know I'm not trying to be a pain ...)

Ugh. I need to take a shower after this thread, though.