Controversial Article in Mobius Magazine

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The Lonely One

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I wonder if any of these journals are old enough to have rejected the real Faulkner as well? These 'greats' didn't always get insta-acceptances...

I'm sure journals are willing to print crappy stories by sure-selling authors, but the more those authors sell their magazines, the more spots they can offer to new authors as well.

For instance, F&SF features new authors, but also features authors like Bradbury. I love Bradbury, but I've read stuff of his that appeared there that none of us would get away with. I've also read stuff of his that utterly blew me away like a shotgun to the face. But even if there is some amount of name-based acceptance, it can be helpful to new authors, as Bradbury will sell an issue of ANYTHING. And hopefully those Bradbury readers will also read the new-author content.
 

mscelina

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I like it when authors send me things like that. A few months ago, I busted an author for submitting his already published work to me--a work that I most unfortunately remembered from a previous submission at another house. All he did was change the character names and titles; about ten minutes of judicious googling took me to his book sales page at his publisher--who'd published the book in June--where I discovered that the excerpt on his sales page began on page three of the first twenty pages, second paragraph down. Save for the changed names? Word for word.

Editors can not only recognize good writing, but bad writing and plagiarized writing--given the right circumstances. That author taught me a lesson; I am VERY particular about running Google searches now on first paragraphs or synopses on submissions. And while I am quite certain that overworked and overwhelmed slush pile readers can be caught out in mistakes, I know for a fact that busy and overworked editors can.

But this isn't down to the whims of agents and editors. This is down to people who, for kicks and giggles, decide to waste the time of an industry professional through deceit and misrepresentation just to try to make a tired old point--and one that's nowhere near accurate.

Editors and agents look for good, clean writing and a great story--and one that's not been told by someone else. So you'd do better to think more about sending in original material written by you, polished until it shines and with a heck of a query letter, than worrying over the whims of agents and editors. Things like this just waste everyone's time. :)
 

Jamesaritchie

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Some idiot pulls this stunt darned near every year, and all it ever proves is that some people have far too much time on their hands. Though apparently not enough time to spend two minutes online seeing how often this stupid stunt is pulled.
 

MJNL

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So, do people just suddenly forget that editors are individual people with individual tastes and opinions, or...what? I don't like Faulkner. If I were an editor, I would reject his work. I don't always agree with what gets into best-of anthologies. There's a lot out there I like for various reasons, and a lot I don't. If readers can't always agree on what's good and what's not, why should editors be expected to? They're readers. They're people.

Is it just me, or shouldn't that be obvious?
 

The Lonely One

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May I also add that 4,000 words pulled out of a 430-page novel won't have the pacing or story arc of a short story.

I think the response article (the one by the poetry editor, I believe) pointed to that very fact.

I actually think the response was more worth reading than the original, which came off as "I keep getting rejected--no way it has anything to do with me!"
 

The Otter

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It's interesting that so few people caught on (especially considering how often these kind of pranks are pulled) but I'm not sure the article proves anything other than what we already know; that it's tough to get published, even if you're Faulkner. Or someone ripping him off.

Also, it reeks of entitlement mentality. "The American Dream declares that if you work hard and are dedicated and persistent, you’ll eventually achieve your goal. As it should be, otherwise what’s the point of having dreams and aspirations?" It would be nice if reality worked that way, but there aren't any such guarantees in life, and a logical adult ought to know this. No, just because you want to be a famous rock star billionaire and work hard at it does not necessarily mean it will happen. Otherwise there would be a massive surplus of famous rock stars billionaires.
 

The Lonely One

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... I'm not sure the article proves anything other than what we already know; that it's tough to get published, even if you're Faulkner. Or someone ripping him off.

I think that's a great way of looking at it. The American Dream is a bit of a logical fallacy and is mainly a nationalistic rhetoric akin to the Manifest Destiny. I think rags to riches is the exception, not the rule. Otherwise there'd be no slums or poverty or crime. More often than not, the rich get richer and the poor stay poor. Rock star dreams seem inconsequential to me next to a desire to contribute something you find important the best way you know how. If the big houses keep shunning this author, why doesn't he try an indy press and work really hard on spreading his work by word of mouth? Why is he relying on journals that ALL of us have trouble getting into?

I think the kindest thing I can say about this writer is that he's short-sighted.
 

Stacia Kane

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It's interesting that so few people caught on (especially considering how often these kind of pranks are pulled)


Except the fact that the editors in question didn't say "Yeah, we recognize this work" doesn't mean they didn't in fact recognize it. Nor does the fact that they made comments like "Show, don't tell!" mean they didn't recognize it.

Every editor I've ever heard discuss this subject says no way will they actually mention plagiarism in their rejection, because it's just not worth the very high potential for arguments and threats and whatever else. More than one editor I've spoken with would find it hilarious--and has found it hilarious--to reject plagiarized work with editorial comments just like those.


So again, yeah, this proves nothing except that the article's author is a self-important jerk who likes to waste the time of professionals.
 

Jamesaritchie

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It's interesting that so few people caught on (especially considering how often these kind of pranks are pulled) but I'm not sure the article proves anything other than what we already know; that it's tough to get published, even if you're Faulkner. Or someone ripping him off.

.

It doesn't even prove this much, or anything close to it. A writer who pulls this silliness should at least be smart enough to send a current story by a current writer.

Style matters, content matters, etc. A story that was easy to sell when Faulkner was alive is likely to be an impossible sell now, even if every sentence is updated start to finish.

And you never, ever know whether an editor caught on or not. Editors sometimes don't catch on, and so what? An editor is supposed to recognize every short story by every writer who ever lived? Or think a story as old as this one fits in a current magazine?

Do you think a story by Melville or Dickens or even Jack London would have fared any better? Good is not good enough. A story must be good, and must fit today's world in every way.

But even when they do catch on, odds are still good that they won't mention it, and nothing means less than what a rejection says. Rejections often aren't even written by the same person who read the story, or they have a predetermined sets of flaws listed, which may or may not be pertinent.

People who pull this stunt simply have no common sense, and no understanding about publishing at all. They always seem to think they're the first genius to try this, but I first saw it pulled forty-two years ago (The writer did send a contemporary story, and the editor caught it at once. He didn't tell the writer he caught on, but he did.), and it was as dumb then as it is now.
 

The Otter

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Except the fact that the editors in question didn't say "Yeah, we recognize this work" doesn't mean they didn't in fact recognize it. Nor does the fact that they made comments like "Show, don't tell!" mean they didn't recognize it.

Every editor I've ever heard discuss this subject says no way will they actually mention plagiarism in their rejection, because it's just not worth the very high potential for arguments and threats and whatever else. More than one editor I've spoken with would find it hilarious--and has found it hilarious--to reject plagiarized work with editorial comments just like those.


So again, yeah, this proves nothing except that the article's author is a self-important jerk who likes to waste the time of professionals.

I'd think if the editors recognized it was plagiarized, they wouldn't bother responding at all; they'd just toss it aside in disgust. It kind of surprises me that some of them would play along and give editorial comments even if they know the person is pranking them. I guess I can see why they would find it funny, but it seems unwise to me. It's just validating the trolls and giving them what they want.

But I'd agree with the last comment. Sending an editor plagiarized work is not only a waste of time, it's probably illegal. I wouldn't be surprised if one of these people got in trouble over it. I mean, what are they planning to do if the editor accepts their work? "Uhh, actually, that's not mine..."
 

The Otter

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It doesn't even prove this much, or anything close to it. A writer who pulls this silliness should at least be smart enough to send a current story by a current writer.

Style matters, content matters, etc. A story that was easy to sell when Faulkner was alive is likely to be an impossible sell now, even if every sentence is updated start to finish.

I guess the perception is that good literature is supposed to be timeless and "good" regardless of the era, but yeah, that's not really the case. What was popular decades ago would be utterly unpublishable now.

Do you think a story by Melville or Dickens or even Jack London would have fared any better? Good is not good enough. A story must be good, and must fit today's world in every way.

I'm sure anything by Melville would be rejected instantly. I find his style impossibly dry. Like chewing on cardboard.

And I'd agree; there's no such thing as objectively good writing, because what makes writing "good" is constantly changing, and awareness of the market and what people are looking for is just as important as knowing how to string together a coherent sentence.

But even if the person used a current example of published work, I think the point they're making would still be rather...pointless. Yeah, not every editor is going to think something is good, even if it was a bestseller. That doesn't mean they're stupid, it means tastes are different.
 

Terie

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I mean, what are they planning to do if the editor accepts their work? "Uhh, actually, that's not mine..."

Yanno, now that you mention it, this might be the most amusing response of all. And even more amusing if the editor put the actual author's name in the salutation of the acceptance letter. 'Dear Mr Faulkner, I'm pleased to accept your short story....'
 

Stacia Kane

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Yanno, now that you mention it, this might be the most amusing response of all. And even more amusing if the editor put the actual author's name in the salutation of the acceptance letter. 'Dear Mr Faulkner, I'm pleased to accept your short story....'


Mr Faulkner! I thought you were dead!



snake-plissken.jpg
 

Sea Witch

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New Info:

Aside from the 2 rebuttal articles I mentioned in my first post, alexshvartsman from AW wrote his own rebuttal in his blog, here.

And guess what happened!

McFetridge wrote a virulent reply to Alex's article here.

Apparently Mr. McFetridge doesn't like it when people disagree with him.
 

Stacia Kane

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Wait, you mean someone who's a petulant brat about his rejections, thinks it's cool to waste the time or professionals, and knows so little about publishing that he thinks his trick proves anything at all is actually a jerk when people point out his petulant, time-wasting brattiness?

*shocked*
 

CrastersBabies

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New Info:

Aside from the 2 rebuttal articles I mentioned in my first post, alexshvartsman from AW wrote his own rebuttal in his blog, here.

And guess what happened!

McFetridge wrote a virulent reply to Alex's article here.

Apparently Mr. McFetridge doesn't like it when people disagree with him.

I couldn't even read it. I got this far:

"You’re hardly worth the effort, but I’m bored. First of all, you don’t know who I am . . ."
 

bearilou

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New Info:

Aside from the 2 rebuttal articles I mentioned in my first post, alexshvartsman from AW wrote his own rebuttal in his blog, here.

And guess what happened!

McFetridge wrote a virulent reply to Alex's article here.

Apparently Mr. McFetridge doesn't like it when people disagree with him.

Wow. Someone sounds bitter.

Excellent blog, Alex!
 

HapiSofi

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Every editor I've ever heard discuss this subject says no way will they actually mention plagiarism in their rejection, because it's just not worth the very high potential for arguments and threats and whatever else.
I did it once.

Let me emphasize that "once".
 

Sevvy

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Wow, what a brat.

I'm a slush pile reader. It's mostly about whether it fits with the journal, if it's well written (won't need tons of editing), and if I liked it. And if I find a story that isn't my cup of tea, but others might really enjoy, I'll pass it along to another reader for a second opinion. I think we do try to give each piece a chance.
 

alexshvartsman

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I couldn't even read it. I got this far:

"You’re hardly worth the effort, but I’m bored. First of all, you don’t know who I am . . ."

I wrote eslewhere that, if someone starts out a flame post with a version of "Do you know who I am," he better be the Juggernaut, or I'm not impressed.

Thanks for all the support, everyone!
 
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