A Few Random Questions About Writing/Researching Historical Fiction In General....

KayEn78 · Jan 19, 2012

It has been ages since I last posted here and been awhile since I wrote anything worthwhile. I have ideas for a few contemporary historical fiction stories (that would take place anywhere from the 1930s to the 1970s). However, the motivation to write has been low with me lately. I did come up with a few questions about writing historical fiction in general.

For instance, when it is considered okay to take liberties with a time period? When researching, is it possible to do too much research and lose focus on the story? You wouldn't want your story to sound like a history text book, at the same time, you want to get every aspect correct for the time period being written about. Once I wrote a story that took place in 1967 and I had the one character's car be an adobe beige 1962 Corvair. Someone on another board claimed that "no one" would actually look up the original color of a car. Well, I did, because I wanted it right with the times. Would this be considered going overboard with research? It didn't take long to look up the actual color and year--just two minutes, maybe five at the most. And of course, there are the bigger aspects of research. I once wrote a story that took place in a fictional small town in Illinois during the year 1944. I did what research I felt that was necessary to the story, but now when I go back and read it, I cringe. It's just awful--the dialogue is horrid. I wrote this story back in 1999 for a college Creative Writing class. A professor asked me what was the weather like on June 6, 1944 in central IL? Who would care to know such a thing? And, she brought up some instances with the dialogue, such as would the main character actually say, "Oh my God!" in 1944? Little details, yes, but these little details can make or break the time period and the entire story. I once read a story that took place in 1969, where the characters spoke 21st Century slang. Totally ruined the story for me. Yes, that had been fan fiction (people seem to take so many liberties with that and do as little research as possible). I'm very strict when it comes to researching and writing historical fiction. I just wanted to know if there was ever an instance when it could be considered too much or a waste of time?

Perhaps browsing and participating in threads here would help get me motivated into writing my historical fiction stories again. Sorry if any of the above subjects had been discussed before. I just find it interesting what people consider "research" or give themselves the right to take ridiculous liberties. What is your opinion on this? Thank you for reading!

-Kristi

pdr · Jan 20, 2012

Welcone!

You'll find all shades here, Kay. I'm a purist perfectionist driven mad by writers who rearranged actual events and who don't research. You know, 19thC morning calls at 10 am instead of 3 pm. And writers trying to understand the old British pounds, shillings and pence money and getting it all wrong!

Cristin_B · Jan 20, 2012

I think it's important to be as accurate as possible, and when you take liberties to make note of it at the end of the manuscript. For example, at the end of THE HELP, Kathryn Stockett mentions a few inaccuracies, like Shake & Bake came out after the story took place, but she decided to include the mention of it because it gave a concrete description of one of her characters.

I would say research becomes overdone if it is unnecessarily put in in exposition. The details should be experienced through the eyes of the character's P.O.V. A good historical novel (I.M.O.) gives concrete details and an accurate picture of the era as the protagonist experiences it.

Mark W. · Jan 20, 2012

I think the more details you put into a story, the more authentic it is as long as the details are pertinent to the story. SO details for details sake is bad. But details on things that actually affect the story are important.

Puma · Jan 20, 2012

Hi Kristi - It's a balance - if you mention a specific date after the period in which there were weather records - yes, you need to find out what the weather was like. But, if the date is before there were records kept, you're okay guessing after you do a check to make sure you didn't inadvertantly pick a date when there was some mention of the weather because it was notable.

Accuracy is critically important - but, you don't want to add detail just for the sake of detail. When you mentioned the car color in your post, if your character was someone who would have named the car by color, using the exact terminology is fine. Example, my mother in law bought a Heather Mist Honda Accord. To me it looked about like silver, but to her it was always Heather Mist and if I would write about her and that car, I'd be specific.

I notice your post count is low. I'd like to suggest you go to Share Your Work - historical (near the bottom of share your work) and read some of the selections others have posted and the comments made - and you can leave comments for the posters to let them know your thoughts. You can't post in SYW until you have 50 posts, but you can offer comments. There's a pretty new post there (Bastien) and in my comments I questioned the historical accuracy of a couple items. So you might want to look at it.

Other than that, keep looking around here, reading threads, and joining in the discussions. Hopefully that will get you motivated again. Puma

KayEn78 · Jan 20, 2012

That's what I thought as well--do the research on everything that is necessary to the story, make is as accurate as possible. It'sinteresting the one poster brought up The Help. I remember reading some Amazon reviews about that book and some people gave the author constructive criticism because she may have gotten some of the music mixed up and used Shake 'n' Bake before it was even out. Others jumped down that reviewer's throat saying something along the lines of, "Who cares? Don't be so nit-picky. It's just a story." Did that ruin the story? I''m not sure, I haven't read the book. But then again, why would you put something in that didn't exist yet. How could the character be using it. If it really had been 1963, she wouldn't have used it. It has to be a valid and plausible reason that it can pertain to the character's actions or whatever, otherwise, at least to me, it's just laziness in the research department.

It's interesting that sometimes you'll read a story set in another time and the character's name is too modern. Even that can ruin a story, in my opinion. It does't sound authentic then.

Thanks for the replies. You've said pretty much what I was thinking all along.

-Kristi

KayEn78 · Jan 20, 2012

Puma,

I'm very nervous about leaving comments because in the past when I had left a few regarding historical accuracy, those people took offense and became very rude. I do hope that people have a better attitude and a thicker skin toward these types of things here.

Yes, my post count is very low. I have to participate more here and listen to people who want to become true writers and actually know the ins-and-outs of it.

-Kristi

KayEn78 · Jan 20, 2012

Pdr - Like you, when it comes to historical accuracy and authenticity in stories, I'm a perfectionist as well. Just because it's fiction, doesn't give you the right to disrespect the time period you're writing about, and lack in common sense.

-Kristi

Sargentodiaz · Jan 20, 2012

KayEn78 said:
Pdr - Like you, when it comes to historical accuracy and authenticity in stories, I'm a perfectionist as well. Just because it's fiction, doesn't give you the right to disrespect the time period you're writing about, and lack in common sense.

-Kristi

Accuracy is something causing me to do a lot of revising. As I get factual records, it means I have to correct what was previously a figment of my imagination.

Example, in writing of the founding of Mission Santa Bárbara, I had to go back and change some of the characters when I came upon the genealogy of California and the various places.

This has become more important than I guess when I discovered that someone I was discussing things with on the internet turned out to be a descendant of those original settlers.

Puma · Jan 20, 2012

It's very easy to get wrapped up in fiction and miss accuracy. I almost committed a bad mistake when I wrote 16-3-3 and there were twin girls born (in the historic record). Because of the way I wrote it, it seemed their names should be Faith and Hope - but, a check showed me their real names - Sally and Claire and that's what I had to use.

Kristi - In SYW it's perfectly okay to say something simple like "I liked this" or "I'm not sure about this part". Sometimes when you're just getting going and people don't know you it works better to be a bit generic. But I will say you can read and comment on anything I have posted in SYW - historic and western and comment and I won't get offended. Puma

Deb Kinnard · Jan 20, 2012

Which is why I write medievals...so long ago, no descendant is going to know or care!

As a reader, I don't mind if the author doesn't know it was rainy in Chicago on May 13, 1951 (well, I might in one regard--I was born that day). It doesn't throw me out of the story. And story, at the end of the day, rules all.

That said, I did wallbang one historical by a multi-published romance author. Reason? She had the characters' ship leave England from the east coast (Norfolk) and sail off into the Irish Sea. Yes. That. The Irish Sea has not traded places with the North Sea anytime in the last 1,000 years, and it was a detail she could have checked in two seconds with a glance at a (modern!) map.

You can, of course, overdo the research so that it derails your story. I've gone down more medieval rabbit holes than I care to comment on. But a huge percentage of what I know about the middle ages does not go into the story.

If you want an example of a writer who apparently puts every single ounce of her research into a book, read Jean Auel. With her current and final book, drink plenty of coffee. Le zzzzz. Good writing, but needed about 3/4 of the historical/archeological data edited out, in my opinion.

Tell your story. Don't worry about the facts until you're done. Then, have it beta-read with a request to watch for overuse of historical detail. Revise as necessary after that's done, until you're happy with the level of detail you've included.

May your work find favor!

KayEn78 · Jan 20, 2012

Thank you for these comments, everyone. They are very helpful and informative. I've read a few stories where the authors tend to put in way too muuch description. Not historical things, but description in general. It was just too much, in my opinion, that I had a hard time finishing the story. My eyes kept wandering elsewhere and losing focus due to the heavy, heavy amount of description.

I tend to do some research before actually writing the story, but then I'll write the story and trimming or adding to it later on, after doing more extensive research (that pertains to the story, of course).

Good advice, Puma, for the SFW forum. I will definitely keep it in mind when I head over there.

-Kristi

angeliz2k · Jan 20, 2012

Deb Kinnard said:
That said, I did wallbang one historical by a multi-published romance author. Reason? She had the characters' ship leave England from the east coast (Norfolk) and sail off into the Irish Sea. Yes. That. The Irish Sea has not traded places with the North Sea anytime in the last 1,000 years, and it was a detail she could have checked in two seconds with a glance at a (modern!) map.

Hm, I wonder if that was a typo that was missed? It seems like a pretty obvious error, but maybe she and the copyeditor overlooked it?

KayEn78 said:
It has been ages since I last posted here and been awhile since I wrote anything worthwhile. I have ideas for a few contemporary historical fiction stories (that would take place anywhere from the 1930s to the 1970s). However, the motivation to write has been low with me lately. I did come up with a few questions about writing historical fiction in general.

For instance, when it is considered okay to take liberties with a time period? When researching, is it possible to do too much research and lose focus on the story? You wouldn't want your story to sound like a history text book, at the same time, you want to get every aspect correct for the time period being written about. Once I wrote a story that took place in 1967 and I had the one character's car be an adobe beige 1962 Corvair. Someone on another board claimed that "no one" would actually look up the original color of a car. Well, I did, because I wanted it right with the times. Would this be considered going overboard with research? It didn't take long to look up the actual color and year--just two minutes, maybe five at the most. And of course, there are the bigger aspects of research. I once wrote a story that took place in a fictional small town in Illinois during the year 1944. I did what research I felt that was necessary to the story, but now when I go back and read it, I cringe. It's just awful--the dialogue is horrid. I wrote this story back in 1999 for a college Creative Writing class. A professor asked me what was the weather like on June 6, 1944 in central IL? Who would care to know such a thing? And, she brought up some instances with the dialogue, such as would the main character actually say, "Oh my God!" in 1944? Little details, yes, but these little details can make or break the time period and the entire story. I once read a story that took place in 1969, where the characters spoke 21st Century slang. Totally ruined the story for me. Yes, that had been fan fiction (people seem to take so many liberties with that and do as little research as possible). I'm very strict when it comes to researching and writing historical fiction. I just wanted to know if there was ever an instance when it could be considered too much or a waste of time?

Perhaps browsing and participating in threads here would help get me motivated into writing my historical fiction stories again. Sorry if any of the above subjects had been discussed before. I just find it interesting what people consider "research" or give themselves the right to take ridiculous liberties. What is your opinion on this? Thank you for reading!

-Kristi

I guess I'm in the middle of the road. I think every writer should strive to get the details right if they can, but in the end a small error or two won't upset me, even if I notice it. I frown on changing major, known events; I only am okay with changing big things if it's something minor that makes the story flow just a little better (ie, so and so leaves Such-N-Such a Castle a week earlier than they did in reality so they can be somewhere else to witness an important event). I'm okay with some artistic license, if the story's good.

In my own writing, I do my best to get everything right but I know there are bound to be errors, and that people will call somethings incorrect even when I know they aren't. I've been called out on things that came straight out of the memoirs of the historical personages.

You can't overdo research, unless it keeps you from actually writing. You CAN, however, overdo exposition. Do we really care about itty bitty details of the household items? Just get on with the story!

EngineerTiger · Jan 21, 2012

In the old days, I had to drag myself into a library and spend hours tracking down every scrap of information. The Internet makes research a breeze now. In a few minutes I can find something that took hours or even days to track down. I tend to be far less forgiving now over any work that claims to be historical fiction that does not indicate that the writer at least made some effort.

I can think of a recent example in my own work. I have a primary character who, by rights, should be a highly decorated war hero. However, his active years of service occured when the United States didn't give out medals at all; with the exception of the Medal of Honor and I wanted to avoid using that one. I didn't even know that until I checked to see when the DSC was first awarded. It was one he should have been awarded. However, when I checked, I learned that the Distinguished Service Cross was not in existence until WWI. So, my poor little Civil War era soldier could not receive it. The good thing that came out of this was a minor little side story that would not have otherwise existed.

Part of the fun of writing historical fiction is to create a character and live in an era through them. While too much detail can bog down the flow of your story, don't hesitate to add some for flavor. But if you do, such as the color of the car, by all means make sure that those details are correct. Will most readers catch such errors or even care? Probably not. But, if you're going to work in this discipline, honor the craft of it by doing the best you can to catch the flavor of the era for the reader.

Flicka · Jan 22, 2012

You know, I never understood why accuracy or research should turn historicals into something 'like textbooks'. If that was true, contemporaries would all be encyclopedias, because the writers know so much about the time and place they're set in.

For me, changing 'big' things isn't necessarily a deal-breaker if the writer is up front about it. My main pet peeve are books that just don't feel accurate for the period. It's not so much details as getting very many things slightly wrong that leaves you with a book that just doesn't 'taste' authentic. It gets social interaction slightly wrong, status slightly wrong, customs slightly wrong (like people having dinner parties in the evening in 1750s). I'd much rather have someone have a fake general lead the Swedish forces at Breitenfeld even if I know it was Lennart Torstensson (who incidentally is a relative of mine and I still don't mind

) if that suited the story than someone making morning calls at 10 am in the 19th century.

With that said, you have to stop researching some time and I think you also need to accept that you will make mistakes. Just make sure they're pretty insignificant mistakes.

As for your research, KayEn; did you ever visit The Fedora Lounge? It's a board for 'vintage' or 'retro' enthusiasts, who to a varying degree embrace a 20th century lifestyle. There are people there who do it completely, including only listening to podcasts of old radio shows and only using 30s and 40s kitchen appliances. Many people have large collections of items and literature from and about the era. Usually, no matter what obscure topic you bring up, someone will prove to be an expert. I just thought it might be worth your while to check out, for lurking or building contacts.

Good luck!

gothicangel · Jan 22, 2012

Flicka said:
For me, changing 'big' things isn't necessarily a deal-breaker if the writer is up front about it. My main pet peeve are books that just don't feel accurate for the period. It's not so much details as getting very many things slightly wrong that leaves you with a book that just doesn't 'taste' authentic. It gets social interaction slightly wrong, status slightly wrong, customs slightly wrong (like people having dinner parties in the evening in 1750s). I'd much rather have someone have a fake general lead the Swedish forces at Breitenfeld even if I know it was Lennart Torstensson (who incidentally is a relative of mine and I still don't mind ) if that suited the story than someone making morning calls at 10 am in the 19th century.

Ah, yes. I decided to do some sadism, and started reading Simon Scarrow's latest [my new WIP is about a spy for the Praetorian Guard, and his new book also uses the Praetorian Guard.] I don't think I've ever come across such English sounding Romans before, and so modern.

Of course, a character 'slipping on a toga' [with all those folds??!!] made me spit coffee too.

KayEn78 · Jan 22, 2012

Oh yes, I've been to The Fedora Lounge message board many times and it has been very resourceful for me. I've gotten "lost" in that board many times and hours have slipped away.

Thank you again for the thoughtful replies.

-Kristi

Raula · Jan 22, 2012

I think these are valid fears when you're writing historical fiction, Kristi. My answer is: don't worry about historical accuracy until the first draft is out. Yes, you need to read around the time period if you are unfamiliar with it (this is why I never leave the 17th Century

), however you can easily become bogged down with the detail. This stops you sounding like a textbook and keeps you focused on the characters and story.

Often what I do when I know something needs looking up is put it in BIG BLOCK HIGHLIGHTED CAPITALS, so that it isn't easy to miss on the next read through. For example, I know that I need to visit a section of York University which used to the President of the North's headquarters at the time when Thomas Wentworth was in the post. I have left all minute details of this building out until I get chance to visit. However, I still do not know where exactly his residence was in London - only that it was in Westminster. That missing detail is driving me mad, but if I had stopped to research it when I first came to write the London scenes, I would never have had the draft finished.

I always think it's harder the later you go because there's still people living from the period, there's photographs, there's far more documented accounts of what happened. Everything is far more accessible, which to me makes it far more restrictive. But you have to take it with a pinch of salt. You can always omit a detail you are unsure of, if you can get away with it. There's no point becoming a martyr to accuracy. Only the very, verrrrryy good writers can provide in-depth detail and still create a good story.

gothicangel · Jan 22, 2012

Raula said:
There's no point becoming a martyr to accuracy.

I agree.

A good example happened to me this afternoon. I had spent some substantial time researching Roman Corbridge, even visiting the site, to research the town and garrison.

Well, I cracked open a book by English Heritage [stewards of Corbridge] to discover that the development didn't happen until 180 AD . . . 17 years after my story. In 163 they where just beginning to level the ramparts of the fort as they demilitarized the site.

So, it was a definite back to the drawing board. Almost nothing is known of the civilian settlement from then, so I get to design my own vicis. Something I will explain in the author's note.

A Few Random Questions About Writing/Researching Historical Fiction In General....

KayEn78

pdr

Cristin_B

Mark W.

Puma

Retired and loving it!

KayEn78

KayEn78

KayEn78

Sargentodiaz

Puma

Retired and loving it!

Deb Kinnard

KayEn78

angeliz2k

never mind the shorty

EngineerTiger

Writing HF Again, Thank God

Flicka

Dull Old Person

gothicangel

Toughen up.

KayEn78

Raula

gothicangel

Toughen up.