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Usefulness of Stereotypes??

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bonitakale

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Is your beta really talking about character, or is he wishing for more background and more cultural detail? Maybe he feels a lack of Chinese-ness and can't think of any other way to describe it, but what he really wants is scenery.
 

Lunatique

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What you need to do is to research and understand the psychic landscape of the Chinese people during that time--what they're being taught in school, the idiosyncrasies of the societal structure such as classicism, their values, how corrupt or just the average local government official was, and so on. The best way to learn about all this is to read actual classic Chinese literature written during the time period you're writing about, or modern Chinese literature about that time period. You should be able to find such English-translated books. Devour those books and take notes--that's your best bet. Another alternative is to watch a ton of Chinese period drama movies/TV shows with English subtitles--you'll also learn a ton that way. Just make sure you don't choose the shows that cast a bunch of pop idols--those are nowhere near authentic--they're just star vehicles to make pop idols more popular.

BTW, I'm giving you the above advice as a native Chinese speaker that's read said books and watched said movies and TV shows since childhood.

Generally, stereotypes do have basis in reality, and there are always exceptions too. What you need to learn is how far is too far when you try to depict an exception, because writing a western-thinker with western values into a character with an Chinese body is not going to make him Chinese. You need to understand the inner world of a typical Chinese person--the kind of things he actually think about and talk about (and also what they would never do or say publicly, or in private).

I recently wrote a scathing criticism of a book that totally fumbled on this issue (inauthentic depiction of a Chinese character by a western author). You can read my review of it is the second half of this blog entry: http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/about_me/wordpress/?p=1549
 
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Mutive

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Yeah, it's hard to know what the beta is thinking without being able to see the comments/manuscript.

But...aside from the possibility that the beta is crazy, I do wonder if you've sufficiently done your research and/or gotten what you've researched across.

Definitely, I'd recommend reading some translations of primary documents written in the era you're trying to write in. (Luckily, China has a long literary tradition that's been pretty well preserved, so you're in more luck than you'd be trying to write about, say, the Incas or ancient Celts.) That should help the story feel more Chinese (and ancient), without it coming across as a stereotype. (After all, the characters in, say, "Dream of Red Chambers" vary about as much as characters are able to differ, while all being Chinese and, I believe, 17th century.)
 

Lseeber

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Thanks everyone for continuing to comment. :) It's great to get such worthwhile feedback!

This.

Some food for thought:

Can you do a global search & replace for "China" to "India" and the story or the details still work?

How important are the details pertaining to the then China in your novel? Does it make a difference if they sat on chairs or on their ankles on the floor? Does it matter if they had long hair or short? Does it matter if widows could remarry?

Actually, the place and time is pretty integral to the story, in my opinion. The dynamic nature of the time period serves as a important contextual backdrop to the story line. If I removed the story from the setting and time period and put into another one, I would have to make some very significant changes for it to be a story that I would feel comfortable with others reading. Hope that makes sense?

Is your beta really talking about character, or is he wishing for more background and more cultural detail? Maybe he feels a lack of Chinese-ness and can't think of any other way to describe it, but what he really wants is scenery.

The more I analyze what he said, and listen to what is said on this board, I think this in fact may be the case. Perhaps part of the problem is that I am not conveying the right scenery as you put it. :).

What you need to do is to research and understand the psychic landscape of the Chinese people during that time--what they're being taught in school, the idiosyncrasies of the societal structure such as classicism, their values, how corrupt or just the average local government official was, and so on. The best way to learn about all this is to read actual classic Chinese literature written during the time period you're writing about, or modern Chinese literature about that time period. You should be able to find such English-translated books. Devour those books and take notes--that's your best bet. Another alternative is to watch a ton of Chinese period drama movies/TV shows with English subtitles--you'll also learn a ton that way. Just make sure you don't choose the shows that cast a bunch of pop idols--those are nowhere near authentic--they're just star vehicles to make pop idols more popular.

BTW, I'm giving you the above advice as a native Chinese speaker that's read said books and watched said movies and TV shows since childhood.

Generally, stereotypes do have basis in reality, and there are always exceptions too. What you need to learn is how far is too far when you try to depict an exception, because writing a western-thinker with western values into a character with an Chinese body is not going to make him Chinese. You need to understand the inner world of a typical Chinese person--the kind of things he actually think about and talk about (and also what they would never do or say publicly, or in private).

I recently wrote a scathing criticism of a book that totally fumbled on this issue (inauthentic depiction of a Chinese character by a western author). You can read my review of it is the second half of this blog entry: http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality_website/about_me/wordpress/?p=1549

I've actually have done extensive research, as I detailed briefly in an earlier message, including reading primary documents, scientific literature, and interviewing people. :)

That being said, there is probably always room for more research. As you know, Chinese history, and its culture is an extremely complex and rich one. I realize that this could be considered an "outsider looking in" type of situation but I'm hoping that I convey an accurate portrayal (as best I can) of the culture and mentality during the time period in question.

Of course, if I ever manage to convince a publisher to take a chance on the book, feel free to give me an honest and scathing review :) I'll take no offense, and who knows, I might learn something!

Yeah, it's hard to know what the beta is thinking without being able to see the comments/manuscript.

But...aside from the possibility that the beta is crazy, I do wonder if you've sufficiently done your research and/or gotten what you've researched across.

Definitely, I'd recommend reading some translations of primary documents written in the era you're trying to write in. (Luckily, China has a long literary tradition that's been pretty well preserved, so you're in more luck than you'd be trying to write about, say, the Incas or ancient Celts.) That should help the story feel more Chinese (and ancient), without it coming across as a stereotype. (After all, the characters in, say, "Dream of Red Chambers" vary about as much as characters are able to differ, while all being Chinese and, I believe, 17th century.)

Yeah, sorry about not being able to show the critiques :( It was a verbal conversation over the phone, and I didn't think to record it.

Well, in my book, you can never do enough research, lol.

It's the scientist in my blood- I'm always searching out new information, data, interpretations. However, there comes a point when the writer needs to decide how to synthesize the available information into a presentation that is both understandable to the reader, and hopefully enjoyable.

I fully realize that if I get this book published, there will be people that find fault in it. That's just the nature of the beast. Hopefully there will be people who enjoy it as well. All I can do is my best, and offer it up to the masses for critique, dissection, and hopefully enjoyment.

Thanks, everyone!

Laura
 
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