Crushing Hearts & Black Butterfly Publishing / Hot Ink Books / Steamworks Ink

A bestselling indie press? Those books are bigger sellers than releases from Kensington? Baen? Ellora's Cave? Samhain?

I have to say I seriously doubt that.

Hey guys

Got an offer from CHBB on my novella. Not sure what prompted me to sub to them, as one of the main reasons I'm hesitant to self-pub it is that I feel like it needs a pro editor (which seems to be an issue here). I also find it weird that I posted in this thread myself a while ago about their website, which seems to be improved, but I guess something made me think that subbing them was a good idea

Does anyone have any recent experience with them? I know at one point in the thread it was said that they were pulling a lot of books and having them re-edited. How did that turn out? I've read the Amazon reviews on a few of their books that did not inspire confidence, but I figured maybe the reviewers mentioning sup par editing had old copies. I'm at work today and can't download anything to read sample chapters, but will be spending some time doing so tomorrow. Just thought that maybe someone here would have additional input.

I know it's better to not be published at all than badly published, but finding a home for a 24k word YA contemporary novella is much harder than one would think (not that I'm willing to accept being badly published), so I'm ok with aiming lower than advance paying big 5 publishers. The piece is still out with a few other publishers, but it's been quite a while and I'm thinking they fall into the "no word means no" category. Bloomsbury Spark is the only one I'm holding out hope for, but I don't think I'm that good or that lucky, lol. I am leaning heavily toward self-publishing, but I have no clue what I'm doing in that arena and am not sure what my best option would be if it should come to somewhere like CHBB and going it alone as a total newb to DIY.

You have a lot of options outside of the Big 5. I, personally, would be surprised if this is the best of them, or in the top ten.

And I see lots of Amazon reviews mentioning basic editing problems that are less than a week old. I doubt all these people read an old copy. Especially as some of the tiles were released less than a month ago.

Soo..um..what's the big 5?...

veinglory said:

You have a lot of options outside of the Big 5. I would be surprised if this is the best of them, or in the top ten.

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Not a lot that I've found, aside from romance epubs. And like I said, I've had several R's and lots more that I haven't heard from in over 6 months, so I'm losing hope.

If you have suggestions for small houses accepting NON-romance (non-horror, non-scifi/paranormal, non-UF, non-LGBTQ) YA contemporary in the 24k word count range, I would welcome the heads up via PM

And yeah, I wouldn't consider this one in the top 10, either, but they do have more experience than I do with epublishing. The reviews on Amazon seem to be hit or miss. Some are good honest 3-5 stars, while others are either 1 or 5 star reviews, with a rave/hate split (the haters citing poor editing), so I'm torn

I sent you a PM

The top ten I was speaking of were epublishers who would accept your manuscript. Just my POV, of course.

For the rave reviews, consider the source. And use "look inside".

Gotcha

ETA: So what's the most polite way of telling a publisher that you submitted to "no thank you"? I feel badly about wasting their time. I'm just looking for more reliable editing. Do I just say that?

You say "I'm sorry, but the manuscript is no longer available. Good luck with everything, and I hope we can work together in the future."

justbishop said:

I feel badly about wasting their time

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Don't! They should feel badly about their awful editing.

veinglory said:

You have a lot of options outside of the Big 5. I, personally, would be surprised if this is the best of them, or in the top ten.

And I see lots of Amazon reviews mentioning basic editing problems that are less than a week old. I doubt all these people read an old copy. Especially as some of the tiles were released less than a month ago.

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Ditto. I just had a look at the Look Insides of a couple of their new releases, and found them riddled with basic errors.

craziichas said:

Soo..um..what's the big 5?...

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Penguin Random House
HarperCollins
Simon & Schuster
Macmillan
Hachette

I don't want to lie (especially since I've posted here about it), so how about something like "I've decided to go in a different direction with the story. Thank you for your consideration and I wish you the best of luck." ?

And thanks so much to those who have sent me a few more recs for publishers

When you realize the house is on fire, there's no need to apologize to the flames and try to justify your imminent departure.

Communicate the truth - succinctly - on your way out.

"Circumstances have changed; this manuscript is no longer available."

I'm in a similar position as justbishop. For me, however, it has been a few months that I've been going back and forth with myself about this publisher. I've read several reviews of some of their newer releases and their older releases and one issue reigns supreme: bad editing. There have been several other issues I've found disconcerting and thought I might be able to overlook those, but something has kept me from signing the contract for my full-length manuscript. I've gone back and forth with the self-publish or not to self-publish debate and keep landing on maybe self-publishing is the best choice for me. Does anyone else have any experience with this publisher?

Something is wrong with me. I'm reconsidering. I figured out how I ended up subbing CHBB, and it was on rec from an author I respect. Second hand info, as she mentioned it to me because a friend of hers is very happy there, and said that most of their books sell a significant number of copies on their release day. She did say that her friend's MSs were pretty clean before she handing them in though, so editing was not a concern.

I wouldn't mind going with them if it weren't for the editing issues. I think my writing is pretty clean, especially on this particular MS since it's been gone through so many times with revisions. I'm mainly hesitant due to the rejections I've received on the piece stating developmental issues, but my many beta readers have loved the story and not had any concerns with things like the non-chronological order and multiple POVs I've utilized (i.e. the bits mentioned by editors).

Maybe I'm being to hard on myself and the story will do just fine with minimal editing at CHBB? Gah ><;;

justbishop said:

Maybe I'm being too hard on myself and the story will do just fine with minimal editing at CHBB? Gah ><;;

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Pretend someone else wrote the sentence above and ask yourself, "Does this person sound comfortable with this plan?"

Good luck whatever you decide.

DreamWeaver said:

Pretend someone else wrote the sentence above and ask yourself, "Does this person sound comfortable with this plan?"

Good luck whatever you decide.

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I know, I'm losing it. Not to mention the to/too typo, but I'll blame that on my work keyboard sucking ass (it really does take a gargantuan effort to be sure all of the keys get pressed with the perfect amount of pressure to register the right letters and NOT make me appear to be an idiot).

I emailed the publisher to ask if they'd mind discussing their editing process and their thoughts on my MS in particular a bit more, so we'll see where it leads. Will keep you all updated.

I would suggest asking specific authors for specific numbers. Because if they sell what I would consider significant, I would be amazed.

I mean, their books... I mean, you looked at them right? I don't know what more there is to say that has not already been said.

I think our definitions of "significant" are likely pretty far apart, but it seemed a significant number to me, and one I'd be thrilled with for this awkwardly short/long story that no one else seems to want but beta readers adored.

I haven't had a chance to do much reading of anything lately, but it's on my list, and certainly something I will do BEFORE making any final decision.

TheDancingWriter said:

A formerly self-published friend of mine wasn't happy with how the sales of his first self-pubbed book were going (really, he had WILDLY unrealistic expectations). When contracted by CHBB--which I warned him about after he signed on, so it was too late--with another book, he decided to give up his rights of his first self-pubbed book.

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I'm a bit confused by this. Are you referring to first publication rights? If so, weren't they already used up because the book had been self-published?

Did they change the cover? Cover matters a lot.

Sometimes just being new again can buoy sales; it reappears at the top of certain pages in front of the eyes of new readers. If his monthly sales remain above his self-published levels in a few month's time, then he can credit that to CHBB and their visibility.

I have been scooping them out for a while, they seem to be right up my alley but I really want to make sure my book is edited before it's published. What a shame.

I was recently offered a 3 year contract by Vamptasy Publishing, an imprint of CHBB, for a series of mine. I have many questions and issues with the details but most of all I'm simply wondering if anyone here has anything new to say about the company? Has it evolved at all? If so, do you think it was for the better or worse?

Like the poster before me, I truly feel that a publisher specializing in material such as this is perfect for me. However, when I did research on the company through this site, D&B, the IL and MI SoS sites, I didn't come away with a good feeling. I've been self-publishing/promoting/working my tail off on this series for 4 years making it available in a wide variety of ebook formats and print domestically and internationally. I'm searching for a company that can take it to the next level (maybe even beyond). Does anyone here feel this company is capable of doing that?

TheDancingWriter said:

Also, his book is doing better with them than when he was at it alone, so that makes no sense to me. It's in the 100,000 range now, but it did start out in the 40,000 range, and he never had a sales rank that low in the beginning. It's also a categorical bestseller in dystopian, something he's never had before, either. He had sword and sorcery, but I thought dystopian was a pretty tight market. I'm scratching my head on this one because CHBB obviously didn't market/promote it beforehand, and yet it's selling better.

Can anyone explain this to me? Is this sheer dumb luck, or is CHBB slightly better with marketing than anything

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You're talking amazon ranking right? If his book was in the 40,000 range before and is in the 100,000 range now, that means it's doing worse not better. He's dropped back another 60,000 from where he was before.

1BigBreak, I see this is your first post. I'd check around a LOT in the Bewares threads at other publishers first, based on the previous posts.

I missed that on the first read-through. Yes, the larger the Amazon sales number, the fewer sales. The actual pattern is subject to super-secret Amazon algorithms. During a run of recent good sales, my rank was averaging around 18,000 to 22,000 for five sales a day on Amazon. In researching a particular publisher, I found fairly strong hints that an Amazon sales rank of over a million may indicate only single digit sales since publication.

As far as this particular publisher, it might be good to see their collective Amazon rankings.