E-books, Schmee-books: NYTimes article.

Shadow_Ferret said:

"Cheap e-readers"-- I have yet to see what I would define as either cheap or even affordable.

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If you hung out on more tech forums, you'd know that $99 is considered an impulse purchase by most techies these days. Keep up with the times, man!

The Lonely One said:

I would be more than happy with some kind of gift certificate for e-books (if such a thing exists).

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Such a thing does exist, not only at big third party retailers but at small independent presses. http://www.musapublishing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=87

IceCreamEmpress said:

Amazon.com and BarnesandNoble.com gift cards work for e-book purchases.

Also, if a local independent bookseller sells e-books (usually via GoogleBooks), a gift certificate to them should work. (Of course, this is a US-specific answer!)

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Yes, Amazon and B&N have ebook certificates. But if you're looking to buy an ebook from a favorite author as a gift, it's always a great idea to go to their publisher's website. Author get larger percentages from home site sales, because there's no middleman (or evil monster) taking a percentage right off the top.

Shadow_Ferret said:

My financial status?

Or relative to books. I buy a book, the reader IS the book. There isn't an initial start-up cost. Here, I buy a kindle at almost $100 and that's my discretionary book budget for the better part of a year. I don't find that cheap, I find that prohibitive. Sure, I could get.the free Kindle for PC, but that defeats the portability an eReader provides.

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Okay. How many books can you buy from seventy five bucks? Hardback? 3 or so. Paperback? *Maybe* ten.

Now--you could spend that 75 dollars on an ereader, and you can fill that ereader with free ebooks from Baen or small publishers who offer free reads. THEN you can get new fiction at a lower price than big chain bookstores are able to offer. So next year, when this same conversation comes up (and it will) you can get 15-20 new reads for your ereader for that same seventy-five dollars. Just sayin'.

Personally, I don't think that ebooks will ever kill off trade published print books. I'm an ebook publisher and I have many, many bookshelves that get new additions all the time. But I also have my Vizio tablet with both Kindle and Nook on it, with over 500 books on it (and no, not all are Musa books) and that doesn't count the 750 or so books on my PC that I just haven't transferred over yet. That's more than a couple of bookshelves' worth of books that fit into the front pocket of my laptop bag and go everywhere with me--planes, car, doctor's office, holidays with my in-laws (grrrr)--and I find that the convenience of that is a bonus for compulsive readers on the go.

The fact of B&N's book sales being up this year from last might be misleading, as they're getting all the folks who would otherwise have been shopping at Borders. Presumably they're now frequenting the closest Barnes & Noble instead.

I live on a very tight budget in quite modest circumstances. I saved for an e-reader, and just recently bought a Nook for $79. I did so because, once I get set up, I'll be able to review e-books-- but also to save money. Yes, the newest print titles sell in the neighborhood of $25. The e-book version is in every instance considerably less. Good do-it-yourselfers are sellling their e-books for 99 cents! (See Amanda Hocking and Company.)

As has been mentioned, there's also the portability factor. I live in a small place, and always seem to move a lot. For the past six years I've lived out of a duffle bag. Rather than having to carry, store, or giveaway heavy stacks of books, I now have an e-reader which weighs virtually nothing. An added bonus, you could say.

Silent movies and horse-and-buggies are still nice, but. . . .

Are those "free reads" name authors? Best sellers? Where do they rank on the year's best lists?

I suppose I could download the majority of Edgar Rice Burroughs and other authors who are free pre-1925 copyright laws.

kuwisdelu said:

If you hung out on more tech forums, you'd know that $99 is considered an impulse purchase by most techies these days. Keep up with the times, man!

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Yeah. I have no idea how those people do that. Do they not have kids that.they're trying to put through.school? Did they not just spend 2 years on unemployment?

Yeah as a poor man myself I understand the startup cost seems steep. The way I talked myself into it was by looking at the amount of money I spent on books. Now, if you go to a bookstore, you're going to pay for the book, no matter how old it is, how long the author has been dead, etc. Even if you go to the Sony store or Amazon those oldies will cost you a few bucks in e-book format.

Now, go here.

After a few minutes of downloading you've kind of made up that deficit. For me, a lot were books I'd have been glad to purchase in paperback. Thank you, copyright expiration.

mscelina said:

Yes, Amazon and B&N have ebook certificates. But if you're looking to buy an ebook from a favorite author as a gift, it's always a great idea to go to their publisher's website.

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This is a great idea for smaller presses, and I applaud you folks at Musa for doing gift certificates!

For Big Six houses, I don't really care if the publisher gets 100% of the purchase price--Random House is going to be fine even if my local bookstore or even Barnes and Noble gets a cut--and the authors' royalties aren't affected by where the book is purchased because with these houses, authors' royalties are calculated on cover, not net.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Are those "free reads" name authors? Best sellers? Where do they rank on the year's best lists?

I suppose I could download the majority of Edgar Rice Burroughs and other authors who are free pre-1925 copyright laws.

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Actually, Baen Books makes a lot of free books by current named authors available. Larry Niven, Elizabeth Moon, the entire Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold, etc.

Additionally, if you get on the mailing lists of various publishers, quite often you see specials for free or $0.99 ebooks which were bestsellers a couple of years ago -- most often the first book in a series for which the latest book has just been released.

So yes, you can get quite a few free/cheap ebooks besides hundred-year-old classics.

(And what's wrong with the complete works of Dickens and Austen and P.G. Wodehouse, anyway?)

The latest bestseller just released in hardcover? Well, no, but you'll pay just as much or more to buy the print copy.

Yeah. I have no idea how those people do that. Do they not have kids that.they're trying to put through.school? Did they not just spend 2 years on unemployment?

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Not to be unsympathetic, and I realize there are people who truly cannot afford an $80 ereader, but I suspect most folks such as yourself have computers, TVs, DVD players, MP3 players, etc. I am not saying you should buy an ereader, just that "It's so astronomically expensive I couldn't possibly afford one!" is more a statement of where your preferences lie than reality. The amortized cost is still cheaper with an ereader.

Now if you prefer paper books on principle, then like I said, peachy. But your arguments aren't really rooted in practical objections.

Phaeal said:

Richard Russo was on the NPR show, discussing the obnoxious habit many people have of trolling for books in a store, making lists of what they want, then strolling out to order on-line. He said that in Ann Patchett's new bookstore, the clerks will confront these people and ask them not to use their store as an unpaid adjunct of Amazon. Evidently many of the confronted hadn't even thought of their practice this way before.

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I window shop books the way some women do shoes. My money is tight , so when I get to go to BN, I make wishlists of books and authors. Occasionally, I do end up ordering them off the web. But not for the reason you think. I read series, and I hate finding the second and third of an interesting series and not the first. This happens a lot and irritates me to no end.

Several months ago I found a series I really wanted in BN. About 2 weeks later, when I had money in hand to buy, nary a copy was to be found. So I went home and looked at BN online. They only had one book of the series available and it was twice the price of mosts paperbacks. Amazon has it at a reasonable price, and available for Kindle, so it is now on my wish list. If I do not get it for Christmas, I will buy it myself.

I buy both ebooks and real books. I buy hardbacks for those I want to keep, or can't wait for the pb to come out, and I trade my used books.

I love both forms, and I think there are a lot of people just like me. Traditional publishing will never go away, but ebooks are definetly a game changer.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Are those "free reads" name authors? Best sellers? Where do they rank on the year's best lists?

I suppose I could download the majority of Edgar Rice Burroughs and other authors who are free pre-1925 copyright laws.



Yeah. I have no idea how those people do that. Do they not have kids that.they're trying to put through.school? Did they not just spend 2 years on unemployment?

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You can download a hell of a lot more than that. I realize that my work is completely unimportant and uninspiring, but you can get four of my books--including my short story collection--for free right now.

But, if you want to read "real" authors--See below.

IceCreamEmpress said:

This is a great idea for smaller presses, and I applaud you folks at Musa for doing gift certificates!

For Big Six houses, I don't really care if the publisher gets 100% of the purchase price--Random House is going to be fine even if my local bookstore or even Barnes and Noble gets a cut--and the authors' royalties aren't affected by where the book is purchased because with these houses, authors' royalties are calculated on cover, not net.

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We wanted our authors to gain as much as they could from holiday sales. Customers can come to our site, select the 'gift card' amount they want, choose the illustration for the gift card and print it out after purchase to present a tangible gift. Musa calculated on-site sales by the cover, and third party distributors by net.

Amadan said:

Actually, Baen Books makes a lot of free books by current named authors available. Larry Niven, Elizabeth Moon, the entire Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold, etc.

Additionally, if you get on the mailing lists of various publishers, quite often you see specials for free or $0.99 ebooks which were bestsellers a couple of years ago -- most often the first book in a series for which the latest book has just been released.

So yes, you can get quite a few free/cheap ebooks besides hundred-year-old classics.

(And what's wrong with the complete works of Dickens and Austen and P.G. Wodehouse, anyway?)

The latest bestseller just released in hardcover? Well, no, but you'll pay just as much or more to buy the print copy.



Not to be unsympathetic, and I realize there are people who truly cannot afford an $80 ereader, but I suspect most folks such as yourself have computers, TVs, DVD players, MP3 players, etc. I am not saying you should buy an ereader, just that "It's so astronomically expensive I couldn't possibly afford one!" is more a statement of where your preferences lie than reality. The amortized cost is still cheaper with an ereader.

Now if you prefer paper books on principle, then like I said, peachy. But your arguments aren't really rooted in practical objections.

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This is what I was talking about. The Baen library has literally filled up my Vizio tablet, and I spend my leisure time *snort!* with scores of books by name authors who are still living at my fingertips.

dragonangel517 said:

I window shop books the way some women do shoes. My money is tight , so when I get to go to BN, I make wishlists of books and authors. Occasionally, I do end up ordering them off the web. But not for the reason you think. I read series, and I hate finding the second and third of an interesting series and not the first. This happens a lot and irritates me to no end.

Several months ago I found a series I really wanted in BN. About 2 weeks later, when I had money in hand to buy, nary a copy was to be found. So I went home and looked at BN online. They only had one book of the series available and it was twice the price of mosts paperbacks. Amazon has it at a reasonable price, and available for Kindle, so it is now on my wish list. If I do not get it for Christmas, I will buy it myself.

I buy both ebooks and real books. I buy hardbacks for those I want to keep, or can't wait for the pb to come out, and I trade my used books.

I love both forms, and I think there are a lot of people just like me. Traditional publishing will never go away, but ebooks are definetly a game changer.

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I agree. Trade publishing and e-publishing debates are all fine and good but they're also a bit moot. Trade publishers are going to have to learn to produce e-books CORRECTLY and price them accordingly.

There is definitely room for both in this world, and for confirmed bibliophiles like me, it's a luxury to never be out of something to read. And e-publishing houses can take risks that trade publishers won't--for example, I've contracted the lost manuscripts of Homer Eon Flint, a pioneer in early 20th century American science fiction. Musa will be releasing ALL his works, providing readers of HEF will a full spectrum of his work and also archiving those works for the future. Because of the (relatively) low cost of producing quality e-books, we can bring these lost works to the public and never charge more than six bucks for it.

So there are advantages to e-publishing that spread past the commonplace and into the extraordinary. But regardless of what the future holds in publishing, trade publishing isn't going to go away.

I don't even have an ereader yet, as I'm taking my dear sweet time deciding which one I want, but I read all the time on my netbook and my iphone. I love being able to get a good book RIGHT NAO.

I think recessions tend to bring people back to the 'simplier' or more 'traditional' elements of Christmas, one being the buying on books at Christmas, the browsing around a book shop, hoping to fall in love, look cool, get a good pressie.

ah, the olden days...



Recessions - good for book sellers and authors.

Amadan said:

There are other ebooksellers besides Amazon, you know.

I'm sorry, "ebooks will destroy local bookstores" does not play with me. If the rise in popularity of ebooks means that paper books become less popular and can sustain fewer brick and mortar bookstores, too bad, so sad. This is not something without historical precedent. It happens. Technology changes, media changes, businesses catering to the old medium become obselete. Hey, the Internet and home videos pretty much put X-rated theaters out of business. Once upon a time casette tapes were supposedly going to kill the music industry and VCRs would destroy Hollywood.

If you prefer paper books, peachy, but I'm gonna laugh hard and mockingly at anyone who starts trying to use "Save your local bookstore!" as an argument why ebooks are bad.

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Um, my point was not that e-books are bad -- in fact, I was thinking primarily of paper books bought online. My point was that people who use local bookstores as unpaid browsing sites for Zon (and other online stores) are entitlement whores.

No, e-books aren't bad, and I'll get around to buying a reader. I already read a lot of books on my PC -- especially out-of-print ones archived at various sites, like that three volume history of Salem that would otherwise cost me over $500 to buy in paper.

And another thing about browsing -- if you're going to BUY on-line, why not BROWSE on-line? Amazon makes that easy enough with its recommendations and its LOOK INSIDE feature.

If you've got to have the human touch of a clerk running around to find something for you, have the humanity to pay the clerk for his time and effort.

Phaeal said:

If you've got to have the human touch of a clerk running around to find something for you, have the humanity to pay the clerk for his time and effort.

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Well, yeah, engaging a clerk to help you find books just to look at them and then go buy them online is grade-A douchebaggery.

Phaeal said:

Um, my point was not that e-books are bad -- in fact, I was thinking primarily of paper books bought online. My point was that people who use local bookstores as unpaid browsing sites for Zon (and other online stores) are entitlement whores.

No, e-books aren't bad, and I'll get around to buying a reader. I already read a lot of books on my PC -- especially out-of-print ones archived at various sites, like that three volume history of Salem that would otherwise cost me over $500 to buy in paper.

And another thing about browsing -- if you're going to BUY on-line, why not BROWSE on-line? Amazon makes that easy enough with its recommendations and its LOOK INSIDE feature.

If you've got to have the human touch of a clerk running around to find something for you, have the humanity to pay the clerk for his time and effort.

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A funny thought occurred to me. Clearly, I'm doing things backwards.

I use amazon to research which books I want to buy, then go to the brick and mortar to buy them.

Maybe Santa will bring me a Kindle this year (not holding my breath) but I still buy kindle editions because I put Kindle for the PC on all my computers. If I'm iffy about a book, I purchase the kindle edition and if I like it well enough, go out to the same brick and mortar and buy it.

I ,too, use the web to research books online. I usually search on amazon because they have the biggest selection, but I don't always buy there. Yes I have a Kindle, but nothing beats the feeling of walking out of a store with 2 or 3 new books. I guess I just want to have my cake and eat it too. And no matter where you buy the book, it is still the publisher who makes the most money off the sale.

And I have never in my life asked a clerk to find me something, then put it back and ordered it off the net.(Hard enough to find a clerk in the first place.) The point I was trying to make earlier was that just because you see someone writing a list, do not assume they are going to order them online later. I have a horrible memory and little money. By the time I get the money to buy, if I did not have the list, I would not remember the book.

ebooks are great for folks like me who don't live near a bookstore. I don't have a mom and pop to go to. I have to drive over an hour to reach a physical store and even then that would be to reach B&N or Half-Price Books. I love wireless shopping. Soon as I finish one book, I download the next. Amazon one-click buy is my crack.

We've all gone digital in my family. Me. Husband. Sis and her husband. Even my 70 yo father has an ereader.

bearilou said:

A funny thought occurred to me. Clearly, I'm doing things backwards.

I use amazon to research which books I want to buy, then go to the brick and mortar to buy them.

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Me, too.

Hey, the Zon gets all my DVD purchases these days, so we should be good. Which reminds me, I need to give IKEA some money for a case to HOLD all those DVDs. I'm a one-person stimulus program!

Phaeal said:

I'm a one-person stimulus program!

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It's admirable.

*admires*

So many of these comments sound like me a few years ago, pre-Kindle. I've lugged enough books around in my life, now I can carry my entire library with me wherever I go.

As I've said elsewhere, brick&mortar book stores should take a page from Apple and become THE place to go to see what is new, get advice on new (and old) "technology," and, yes, actually buy a book or an e-book (if that's your interest).