Help! Possible scam?

jenga

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I just got an inquiry from my website for a proofreading job. Nothing too major, just 5000 words of a youth HIV awareness document.

The hitch here is that the client claims there is a problem with his Paypal account and so is paying via Traveler's check. I told him that I would only release the work once his check clears and I get the full project amount.

Then I get the email below: it claims his accounting department made a clerical error on the check for 2000 Euros. He's basically asking me to subtract my fee and send him back the difference via western union.

Here's his email:

Hello,
Anyway,the traveler's check has been mailed as i wrote yesterday but there is a little mistake on it.Instead of traveler's check with value of ,check of EUR.2,000 was mistakenly sent to you by our financier.The extra is meant for drugs for people living with HIV/AIDS.


The NGO will appreciate if you cash along with your money belonging to you as we have urgent need for the extra amount.


The Remaining amount can send back to us through western union through a name and address i will provide for you later.The commission for western union should be deducted from the amount.


Thanking you in anticipation of your assistance.



What do you think? Is this a scam? I'm thinking it might be an embezzlement scheme.

I find it suspicious that he claims to have emailed me yesterday (which didnt happen), and the amount for my project is left blank (see the telltale comma before the EUR2000). Smells like a blank template field for a mail merge.
 
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alleycat

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Run!

Run away now!

Anyone who want money back via WU is definitely a scam.
 

veinglory

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This has the hallmarks of a classic fraudulent check scan--steer clear. You may find the check bounces after you have forwarded what ends up being your own money
 

jenga

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Oh, and he also provided three separate Australian IDs. One of them is a driver's license. I have no idea why he added that, as we've never discussed it before.
 

James D. Macdonald

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Total scam.

It's a fake check. You put it in your account, they credit it to your account, you send back the difference, and in a month the check bounces and you're left holding the bag (and owing the bank) for the entire amount, plus penalties.
 

alleycat

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It's a scam. You don't even need to think about it any more.
 

Ari Meermans

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Total scam.

It's a fake check. You put it in your account, they credit it to your account, you send back the difference, and in a month the check bounces and you're left holding the bag (and owing the bank) for the entire amount, plus penalties.

This. It's a 'classic' scam that's been around for years; I'm surprised it still works.
 

alleycat

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This. It's a 'classic' scam that's been around for years; I'm surprised it still works.

I still get the one from Mr. Nigel Zabulatisqids, Esq. in Nigeria, who just happens to have $10,000,000.82 that was left by a victim of a plane crash. All I need to do is send him my bank account information and PIN and he will send it to me!

I'm rich!
 

Ari Meermans

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I still get the one from Mr. Nigel Zabulatisqids, Esq. in Nigeria, who just happens to have $10,000,000.82 that was left by a victim of a plane crash. All I need to do is send him my bank account information and PIN and he will send it to me!

I'm rich!
:ROFL: Been holding out on us, huh, AC?
 

alleycat

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:ROFL: Been holding out on us, huh, AC?

I'll share! How would you like $1 million?

Because of technical reasons, I can only write a check for $1,050,000. So, I'll send you a check, and you can wire me back $50,000 by Western Union for the extra. We'll both be winners! Well, for a while.
 

jenga

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This. It's a 'classic' scam that's been around for years; I'm surprised it still works.

This one threw me off because he sent me an actual document to proofread. The bells started ringing right after he sent over this email.

And his name wasn't Nigerian. :p
 

jenga

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I'm pretty sure his identity is stolen. Apart from the driver's license, he also gave a construction worker's ID and license.

A construction worker who moonlights as an HIV/youth-oriented NGO spokesperson. Or maybe its the other way around. :D
 

GeorgeK

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Limburger and onion sandwiches are edible. Just cause it stinks doesn't prove it can't be lunch.


I hope your mailing address through your website only goes to a post office box.

If a check did arrive, would there be a problem in taking it to a bank and asking them if it's legit? I assume a bank could verify it and notify the authorities?

If they said it was legit, I'd still wait until they say that everything has cleared, which might be a couple weeks for an out of country check that has to be exchanged from a foreign currency, before refunding an overpayment. Even then I'd pay the overpayment with something from the bank like a cashier's check that would not provide your address, bank numbers, real name etc.
 
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Mac H.

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If a check did arrive, would there be a problem in taking it to a bank and asking them if it's legit? I assume a bank could verify it and notify the authorities?

Even then I'd pay the overpayment with something from the bank like a cashier's check that would not provide your address, bank numbers, real name etc.
Do *NOT* do this. It is a really bad idea.

The problem is that the bank can't tell.

Imagine that I'm the scammer. An you are the original victim.

If I 'borrow' your cheque book and then write out a cheque for $2000 I'll get caught if I deposit it in my account.

After all - it will clear fine (because it is a genuine cheque for your account and the signature I will forge will be close enough) but when you notice the money is missing the police will come knocking at my door.

So, after I steal one of your blank cheques, I'll use a second victim like jenga to launder the money for me.

If she follows your suggestion and uses a cashier's cheque to pay me .. she'll still end up owing the bank every cent.

This is 100% a classic 'over-payment' scam.

Your American banking system is totally weird. I can't believe people still use cheques. Around here you just give them your bank account number and let them deposit the exact amount directly into your account. No mess. No fuss.

Mac
 

areteus

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Hmmm, even if you were sent an incorrect cheque in this country you would not consider paying it in and paying back the difference. You'd send it back, telling them of their mistake, and ask that they issue a correct cheque asap (or make payment by another appropriate means such as paypal) which will not bounce. If they do not comply, you lodge a complaint with the small claims court, using all the correspondence you have with them as evidence of the contract they had with you to pay you for work completed.

Even if you do not manage to get them to pay for the work legitimately this way, at the very least you avoid the scam and there is a chance that threat of legal action will work. If it does go to court, chances are there are others out there who have been scammed by these people who will want to jump on your bandwagon with you and at the very least you expose them publically for what they are.
 

GeorgeK

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Do *NOT* do this. It is a really bad idea.

The problem is that the bank can't tell.
A bank can't tell if a check is good and have no ways to identify if it's fraudulent?
Imagine that I'm the scammer. An you are the original victim.

If I 'borrow' your cheque book and then write out a cheque for $2000 I'll get caught if I deposit it in my account.
Let's use the terms scammer and victim. In my scenario, how is the scammer ever getting their hands on the victim's check book?
After all - it will clear fine (because it is a genuine cheque for your account and the signature I will forge will be close enough) but when you notice the money is missing the police will come knocking at my door.
you totally lost me
So, after I steal one of your blank cheques, I'll use a second victim like jenga to launder the money for me.
again, how is the scammer getting hold of the victim's check?
If she follows your suggestion and uses a cashier's cheque to pay me .. she'll still end up owing the bank every cent.
How, if the victim waits until the bank confirms that the money is there? As I already pointed out that can take weeks.
This is 100% a classic 'over-payment' scam.
It looks like it, yeah, but there is a slim, less than 0.1% chance that it is simply a novice at business who does stupid things like overpayment. Did I miss something like was this a second party check and not from the company directly?
Your American banking system is totally weird. I can't believe people still use cheques. Around here you just give them your bank account number and let them deposit the exact amount directly into your account. No mess. No fuss.

Mac
 

GeorgeK

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Hmmm, even if you were sent an incorrect cheque in this country you would not consider paying it in and paying back the difference. You'd send it back, telling them of their mistake, and ask that they issue a correct cheque asap (or make payment by another appropriate means such as paypal) which will not bounce. If they do not comply, you lodge a complaint with the small claims court, using all the correspondence you have with them as evidence of the contract they had with you to pay you for work completed.
Here overpayments and repayments are not all that an unusual thing. The most common time to see it is in health care and it does just make the whole thing confusing.
Even if you do not manage to get them to pay for the work legitimately this way, at the very least you avoid the scam and there is a chance that threat of legal action will work. If it does go to court, chances are there are others out there who have been scammed by these people who will want to jump on your bandwagon with you and at the very least you expose them publically for what they are.

Right, that's where in my scenario the potential victim can let the bank sort it all out and the victim doesn't do anything until the bank say's that everything is on the up and up.
 

GeorgeK

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and so is paying via Traveler's check..

I missed that it was a second party payment. That does sound very suspicious. However, it is not unheard of. I have no idea how one would tell if a traveller's check is legit or stolen. Again, if the potential employer is a novice, they make bad business decisions and do stupid things from an accounting perspective. I still don't understand why it would be a problem however to go to a bank and present your suspicions (you'd need to talk to some sort of supervisor and take the envelope it came in with you) and then let them track it down to what statistically is a fraud.

If you are in a part of the world where overpayments and repayments are not unusual, never make the repayment until the bank verifies that it's settled and that can take weeks. If on the slim chance that it is legit, be sure to dock the repayment by whatever the postage is.
 
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Mac H.

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In my scenario, how is the scammer ever getting their hands on the victim's check book?
You are missing the point of the scam.

The original victim is the one whose checkbook is stolen (or copied or whatever)

The person being contacted by email is a second victim being used to launder the money from the first victim.

Right, that's where in my scenario the potential victim can let the bank sort it all out and the victim doesn't do anything until the bank say's that everything is on the up and up.
That doesn't work. The problem is that the bank will never say "We guarantee that it is on the up & up and if we are wrong we promise that we will refund the money and take on all liabilities".

They will say "the computer cleared it so it is fine". The fine print, of course, is that if it isn't fine then you suffer ... not the bank.

Here's one of many, many examples:

On Monday, he asked a teller to see if the check was good. She left her perch, went to the backroom and returned assuring him "there was no problem," Schaefer recalled.

On Wednesday, "still not feeling quite right," Schaefer asked the same teller to make sure the check was good. That time, the teller told him the check had been cleared and he was "all set." Schaefer withdrew $5,000 and wired the money to the buyer.

Four days later, as he reviewed his account online, he discovered the check was not good. Even worse, the bank was demanding that he repay the $5,000.

"Had I made the deposit and not tried to make sure it was legitimate, I should have full obligation to make good on it," said Schaefer, 34, a facilities manager in Brattleboro, Vt. "But I checked with the bank twice, and now I find out they have no accountability."

Ref: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/31/AR2006053102004.html
Seriously - "Don't do anything until the bank say's that everything is on the up and up" is exactly the behaviour that the scammers are relying on.

Mac
 

James D. Macdonald

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again, how is the scammer getting hold of the victim's check?

Dr. Mbono Oziko, Eng., of the Nigerian State Insurance Federation, informs someone (or several thousand someones) that they have inherited Twenty Million, Nine Hundred Thousand and Sixty Eight United States Dollars, but, first, in order to forward that money, he must have a check for two dollars to pay the stamp tax. Some trusting character figures, "Two bucks? That's nothing. And I'll get Twenty Million plus!" So he sends the check. Dr. Mbono takes that legitimate check, and alters it to show it is made out to Joe Freelancer for two thousand dollars, and sends it off, asking Joe Freelancer to pay for a five hundred dollar editing job, and could Joe please send back fifteen hundred dollars in change when he cashes the check?

That's just one way to get someone's check.
 

GeorgeK

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You are missing the point of the scam.

The original victim is the one whose checkbook is stolen (or copied or whatever)

The person being contacted by email is a second victim being used to launder the money from the first victim.

Yeah, I see now. Basically the scammer is avoiding overdraft fees (and identification) by using the previous victim.

That doesn't work. The problem is that the bank will never say "We guarantee that it is on the up & up and if we are wrong we promise that we will refund the money and take on all liabilities".

They will say "the computer cleared it so it is fine". The fine print, of course, is that if it isn't fine then you suffer ... not the bank.

Here's one of many, many examples:

Seriously - "Don't do anything until the bank say's that everything is on the up and up" is exactly the behaviour that the scammers are relying on.

Mac

In that situation the bank did figure it out...eventually. I never trust tellers. Everything has to be in writing.

Here it's more a matter of people simply writing bad checks on their own accounts.